Patriots' Kaczur arrested for illegal possession of painkillers

[PatriotsReign]

The post you made which I responded to said nothing of dosages. It did, however, say:



I pointed out ways in which it would be possible to "consume hundreds of pills per week", and I noted that "every few days" was not actually a specific number to base your speculations on. I posted about speculations you made that had no pertinent information behind them.

What I did not do was "attempt to prove that there are NOT multiple possibilties or opinions". Now, would you care to toss out any more red herrings?

Just to throw in the opinion of a former addict, if I had the money the Kaczur has and I was into oxycontin, I would buy a nice big stash of my own. Even if I only used say 2 per day or even if I just used them for a buzz on weekends. Remember, he only paid something like $2,000 for the 100 pills.

O-linemen are typically among the most intellegent players on a football team. So I'll assume Nick is a pretty smart guy. It would be HIGHLY unlikely he made his purchase to distribute them and put his career in that much jeopardy.

But in my own dark old days, if I came into some money, I would buy a lot so i could sell some and get my own for free. This is definately not the case for Kaczur. He does not "need" to sell anything to keep his costs down.

Also, keep in mind that if I have 100 pills of an illegal substance and I give it away, I don't think I'm legally a distributor because I wouldn't be "pushing" anything, I would be offering it. In every "sting" operation, the seller can't be arrested as a distributor until he gives his price. Jut like a person can't be arrested for prostitution if they're doing it for free.

 

[JoeSixPat]

The post you made which I responded to said nothing of dosages.

Sorry Deus - wrong again.

Exactly - Deus does a great job showing how terminally ill patients in the most intense of pain do in fact take some very high doses, and how even an intense addict dose 42 pills a week is far short of the hundred pills every few days that Kaczur reportedly bought. Of course this all comes down to the dosage - which to my knowledge has not been divulged yet.

You're clearly opposed to "speculation" and can't dispute my point that WE DON'T KNOW all the facts of this case, even though you want to rule out certain possibilities.

Unforunately the whole nature of the Patsfans Board is to speculate on subjects related to the Patriots - whether its how they will do in the next game, or the next season or who plays what position or how issues like Spygate or this instance might play out and affect the team.

Deal with it.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Just to throw in the opinion of a former addict, if I had the money the Kaczur has and I was into oxycontin, I would buy a nice big stash of my own. Even if I only used say 2 per day or even if I just used them for a buzz on weekends. Remember, he only paid something like $2,000 for the 100 pills.

O-linemen are typically among the most intellegent players on a football team. So I'll assume Nick is a pretty smart guy. It would be HIGHLY unlikely he made his purchase to distribute them and put his career in that much jeopardy.

But in my own dark old days, if I came into some money, I would buy a lot so i could sell some and get my own for free. This is definately not the case for Kaczur. He does not "need" to sell anything to keep his costs down.

Also, keep in mind that if I have 100 pills of an illegal substance and I give it away, I don't think I'm legally a distributor because I wouldn't be "pushing" anything, I would be offering it. In every "sting" operation, the seller can't be arrested as a distributor until he gives his price. Jut like a person can't be arrested for prostitution if they're doing it for free.

Thanks for that insight - and glad you've overcome your demons... not everyone can say that whether its substance addiction or something else, and its something to be proud of.

Expanding on your point its also very possible that Kaczur was hording... i.e. he had the money to buy whenever he wanted but not always the means, and if there was an opportunity to scoop up "hundreds of pills every few days" as the court documents state he might have been "smart" enought to get as much as he could when he could get it.

And as you say, he possibly wasn't selling, but could have offered it - be it players or friends etc.

All this of course is speculation, so be wary of a :bricks: response by Deus or Mo Lewis Rocks, but I clearly this is an issue that could affect Kaczur's career, our offensive line play this season, and the overall well being of the team at a critical time for them on the heels of Spygate.

As such I think its natural that fans speculate on this matter and all matters related to how the team does in the future.

 

[fgssand]

All this assumes that Kaczur was using them for the euphoric effect. I think that's baseless speculation.

Given the fact that these guys are in a profession where they are constantly in a state of pain and injury, taking a pill orally - i.e. not snorting, not chewing - to gain the 12 hour pain killing effect without the addictive euphoria, is just as likely, if not more likely in my mind.

If that's the case, while there is still an addiction, the addiction to time released Oxycontin is no where near as severe as the addiction to the heroin like euphoria of snorting or chewing.

Joe - you could not possibly have any basis for fact for this claim.

What you state here is not true either, a person can become every bit as addicted to opiates, whether they take them whole or crush them.

If you don't think one can get high off of these, when swallowing them whole, your 100% wrong.

That is not to say there isn't a place for this drug in society, there most certainly is - many people are able to gain real pain relief with the drug and return to a somewhat productive life - truly a miracle for those in need.

Sadly, the potential for abuse (in any manner) is high here. The terrible fact right now is needy people are being denied the medicine they deserve because of this abuse by those that do not have any real pain.

Looking at things from a football players perspective, I for one could not imagine turning away from a pill that would help ease the pain that comes from smashing helmets & bodies, full speed with another athlete, every single day. The problem must arise when the percentage of those players that cannot manage their pain with what is prescribed advances to an out of control amount.

 

[Deus Irae]

Sorry Deus - wrong again.

Really? Here's your post:

Yes - I'd say this thread isn't the place for you if you think speculating on all possibilities and outcomes is something that should not be done.

My approach to these things is to prepare for the worst - and if they are not as bad, great.

There seem to be some here who are already writing this episode off as just another witch hunt against the Patriots. It's a very serious situation and I'm looking at it exactly that way - and I know I'm not the only person who questions whether its physically possible for Kaczur to consume hundreds of pills per week.

If he were getting just one dozen a week then I'd say the suggestion that he might be sharing was baseless.

The statement that he was getting tens of dozens per week changes that.

Please feel free to point out where you talk about the dosage anywhere in that post.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Joe - you could not possibly have any basis for fact for this claim.

What you state here is not true either, a person can become every bit as addicted to opiates, whether they take them whole or crush them.

If you don't think one can get high off of these, when swallowing them whole, your 100% wrong.

That is not to say there isn't a place for this drug in society, there most certainly is - many people are able to gain real pain relief with the drug and return to a somewhat productive life - truly a miracle for those in need.

Sadly, the potential for abuse (in any manner) is high here. The terrible fact right now is needy people are being denied the medicine they deserve because of this abuse by those that do not have any real pain.

Looking at things from a football players perspective, I for one could not imagine turning away from a pill that would help ease the pain that comes from smashing helmets & bodies, full speed with another athlete, every single day. The problem must arise when the percentage of those players that cannot manage their pain with what is prescribed advances to an out of control amount.

fgssand is correct in his statements on the relationship of addiction and the method of ingestion. The method is irelevant to an addiction. A person who "shoots" heroin with a needle is no more an addict than the guy who swallows oxycontin with a glass of water or the guy who "shoots" his shots of Jack Daniels at the local bar on a daily basis.

An addict is an addict and the method or drug(including alcohol) of choice bears no relevance. They are all the same. That is why someone who never drank alcohol but was addicted to oxycontin can never drink alcohol if he/she gets help. That is why an alcoholic can never smoke a joint and say they are recovering even though they stopped drinking.

once someone is addicted to anything, they "should" never use a mind altering substance again for the rest of their lives. I know many people do, but I'm just stating what the facts of history bear out.

My sermon is over

 

[PatriotsReign]

Really? Here's your post:



Please feel free to point out where you talk about the dosage anywhere in that post.

He made another post where he did discuss hypothetical dosages Dues.

 

[Deus Irae]

He made another post where he did discuss hypothetical dosages Dues.

But that wasn't the one I responded to, which is what I stated:

The post you made which I responded to said nothing of dosages

 

[JoeSixPat]

Really? Here's your post:

Please feel free to point out where you talk about the dosage anywhere in that post.

I see - so you've ignored the posts where I DO talk about the significance of dosage, and specifically quote a post where I don't talk about the significance of the dosage, so you can attempt to make a point that I'm ignoring the significance of dosage.

That's pretty transparent, as well as childish.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Joe - you could not possibly have any basis for fact for this claim.

What you state here is not true either, a person can become every bit as addicted to opiates, whether they take them whole or crush them.

If you don't think one can get high off of these, when swallowing them whole, your 100% wrong.

Actually fgssand, you seem to take my post as saying one cannot get addicted to prescription drugs without chewing or snorting. I didn't say that. "Every bit" as addicted as you term it also overlooks the different addictive qulaity of different drugs and even the same drugs ingested differently.

But as one who has worked in the field of substance addiction I can tell you unequivocally that YES there are different level of addiction with different drugs, and with different methods of ingestion.

In the case of oxycontin, there is a limited euphoric effect when taken orally, as prescribed. That's not to say one cannot get addicted - but the addiction is MUCH more severe when one chews or snorts oxycontin, in part becuase of the INTENSE eurphoria gained by thwarting the drug's intended time release design, delivering the entire effect immediately.

That in turn has a significant consequence on the pleasure and pain receptors in the brain, which in turn creates a more significant addiction.

The addiction for those who chew or snort Oxycontin is more intense in the view of some clinicians as that of heroin.

Meanwhile other drugs, whether it be Pot or Pain killers, while they still have an addictive quality, do not come close to that level.

So I'd have to say clinicial evidence says I'm NOT 100% wrong about that.

 

[Deus Irae]

I see - so you've ignored the posts where I DO talk about the significance of dosage, and specifically quote a post where I don't talk about the significance of the dosage, so you can attempt to make a point that I'm ignoring the significance of dosage.

That's pretty transparent, as well as childish.

I was specific as to what post of yours I was talking about, and you chose to ignore that, so stop with the nonsense.

 

[PatriotsReign]

I see - so you've ignored the posts where I DO talk about the significance of dosage, and specifically quote a post where I don't talk about the significance of the dosage, so you can attempt to make a point that I'm ignoring the significance of dosage.

That's pretty transparent, as well as childish.

Drug abuse, addiction & alcoholism is a topic like politics and religion. Seems like discussions about it never go anywhere.

I'll give you an example of how emotional this topic is. I once told someone I thought their brother was an alcoholic. This person took that statement as one of extreme insult and really went off on me. Now the fact is, saying someone is an addict or alcoholic is not insulting at all since it says nothing about their character. It is just a statement that the person is sick and needs help.

 

[PatriotsReign]

I was specific as to what post of yours I was talking about, and you chose to ignore that, so stop with the nonsense.

Deus, you can't pick & choose to debate 1 out of many posts a person makes. You can only debate the entirety of their argument. Also, Joe followed up his initial post with a more detailed example. So if you choose to debate his prior post, you are not fully understanding what his position is.

It's like if a person asks you a question in a debate, you can NOT ignore their question and continue to debate...know what I mean Deus?

 

[shakadave]

This story somehow fits. I've been meaning to post for a long time that Kaczur is the least interviewed Patriot of the BB era. He's the only starter on the team that I wouldn't have a chance of recognizing if I saw him in McDonald's. It's as if the Pats have been hiding him for years. Now this. (Not sure what my point is exactly, but now's the time to say it.)