UPDATES on Butler situation: Butler wants to be "A Patriots for Life" AND "paid like a Top 10 CB"

[nowayback]

You can't franchise everyone.

Assuming they don't have JG or franchise him .

 

[XLIX]

Fair question and I've consolidated everything I have heard over the last 1.5 years into a belief.

I heard at the end of 2015 the NEP offered him $7m AAV and 10m guaranteed. He declined and told the NEP what he was looking for. Howe also published that today in a tweet. Whether it is true or not is up to the reader. I think it's close to the truth.

I had heard the two sides got back together during the 2016 season and the discussion lasted about 10 minutes.

I gotta tell ya, I don't blame the guy for turning down $7M per year with $10M guaranteed. Yes it was a small gamble but I like the risk/reward ratio of turning down that offer.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

I wonder if one of those teams interested is the eagles. If he does get traded i wanna see him in the other conference. Eagles need defense in the worse way.

 

[Love The Drake]

Giardi: Butler courting offers elsewhere, wants new home

Is this reputable?
Or does he want to be a patriot for life)

 

[PatsBoy12]

Gilmore's not playing safety. He's a good corner. He has played in alot of defensive schemes in buffalo. He played well in tbe second half of the season. I have seen this guy shut down Beckham jr.

Respect. What's your point? I never said anything bad about Gilmore or the signing in my post...

 

[borg]

Leaking the $6-7 mill/yr offer is a stupid move by the agent. Essentially, he has broadcast his client's worth to NE. Will other teams want to pay double what NE offered....plus a #1?

 

[varjao]

I'll tell you what he did wrong in sequence.

1. NE/Malcolm negotiated an extension last year. He declined their offer which is fine. Some players want the home run now. I get that Some are patient go along with the system. Some want the security. For a goy who grew up poorer than poor, does he really want to take the chance of blowing out his knee in 2017? I'm conservative financially by nature and I understand how some want to roll the dice. He should have advised his client to take a 3 year/$24/$8-10m guaranteed deal and be a FA when he is 29 or 30. If he was still a Pro Bowler he'd get a short deal but pretty lucrative one. At the end of the day he'd net around ~$40m in career earnings and a lifetime of security.
2. He does not understand what RFA means or how player get top dollar. Because it constricts a free market scenario and adds additional investment a team must make in acquiring him, that reduces the number of suitors. It also allows NE with $60m in cap space to match any offer. It also means the Patriots are not forced into paying him market rates.
3. I don't think he is accurately estimating the influx of CB talent in the draft. That will only negatively impact his client's market.
4. Sign the tender. It a) guarantees $3.9 m and b) puts the mechanism in place to be traded. Right now he has nothing to his name he might as well go back to Popeyes for a few months. Plus if he shows up week 10 he'll get squat.

I get that you can argue his agent is playing hardball with NE and trying to shoot his way out of town but the problem is he doesn't have leverage and his old team has a CB1 already so it's not like their secondary will suck next year.

I agree with this and I will add that, Butler is a very talented player and I'm not saying that if BB passed on him he wouldn't be successful elsewhere with another team taking a flier on him, but looking at the level of coaching and GMing around the league, I think it's very possible that he wouldn't even be in the league or at least not in this position (to command a big pay day) if not by:

1 - His own talent of course.
2 - BB recognizing his potential, giving him a chance and putting him in position to succeed.

If he was let's say a 3rd or 4th round pick, I could very well side with him on this issue, but the guy went undrafted and now is in position to be set for life. Be reasonable and grow up for ****s sake.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Leaking the $6-7 mill/yr offer is a stupid move by the agent. Essentially, he has broadcast his client's worth to NE. Will other teams want to pay double what NE offered....plus a #1?

Spot on right there^

 

[XLIX]

Is this reputable?
Or does he want to be a patriot for life)

My speculation is the man wants to get paid. It isn't that he "wants to go elsewhere" he just wants $$. If the Patriots offered him the dollars he wanted, I have no doubt he would stay.

 

[Nunchucks]

Gilmore has a couple of things that Butler doesn't. Gilmore has top end speed and size. I love Butler, he is a top 10 corner and a great tackler. But, he doesn't have the 4.3 speed and he doesn't have the size to match up against the bigger WRs.

 

[XLIX]

Leaking the $6-7 mill/yr offer is a stupid move by the agent. Essentially, he has broadcast his client's worth to NE. Will other teams want to pay double what NE offered....plus a #1?

How is it stupid? It won't affect negotiations with other teams and, if anything, he has gained some sympathy from the fandom who agrees he is worth more than $7M per year.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Respect. What's your point? I never said anything bad about Gilmore or the signing in my post...

He's not gonna play safety. He came here to play corner. Don't be surprise to see more press coverage this year.

 

[PatsBoy12]

He's not gonna play safety. He came here to play corner. Don't be surprise to see more press coverage this year.

I don't know why you're telling me this, but I'm exiting stage left.

 

[Nehalem]

Jeff Howe? @jeffphowe 21m21 minutes ago
Patriots told Butler last season they wouldn't pay a CB more than $10M annually, so the Gilmore contract was definitely a gut punch.


---
They did with Revis as was said above. Just PR from MB's agent and not all of it based in truth.

What BB actually said was probably: Im not paying a CB who has started for 1 year, and is 2 years removed from UFA, 10M annually.

Even if he offered 2016/2017 at <1m/4M and then tacked on 3 more years @14m Butler still would technically being making less than 10m/yr over 5 years. And that is basically the ceiling on what the Patriots would have offered; they certainly offered less than that since its a great deal for Butler and a terrible deal for them.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I gotta tell ya, I don't blame the guy for turning down $7M per year with $10M guaranteed. Yes it was a small gamble but I like the risk/reward ratio of turning down that offer.

I understand the thinking and the logic. By the time these guys are 60 it'll take them and hour to get out of bed and they will be lucky to make it through the day with no pain and be able to remember their children's name. They are already rolling the dice with their lives, why not go for the extra cash. I get it. With that said, because an average NFL player's career lasts about 4 years and Malcolm is 27, that leads to my line of thinking

With that said I have no idea if his agent put a 3yr offer on the table. If he did, hes smart. If he didn't and did not consider his age and the timing of the 2nd contract he was being extremely shortsighted. By not doing the deal in 2016, now hes looking at a big contract in 2018 when he could have had a decent contract in 2016 and be a FA again when he turns 30.

I am betting in the end, he'd be looking at almost the same total cash earnings but in my scenario he would have gotten $10m sooner and the security that comes with it and not have to wait till 2018 where he has no idea if he will even be healthy. God help him if he blows out his knee.

I'n my opinion that is what an agent is supposed to do which is look out for the career, financial well being and happiness for his client.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Gilmore has a couple of things that Butler doesn't. Gilmore has top end speed and size. I love Butler, he is a top 10 corner and a great tackler. But, he doesn't have the 4.3 speed and he doesn't have the size to match up againt the bigger WRs.

Idk about that. How would you compare him to chris harris? Chris Harris's even shorter but he can cover wrs one and one. Even big wrs. Didn't butler run a 4.4 for the pats when they first brung him in.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree with this and I will add that, Butler is a very talented player and I'm not saying that if BB passed on him he wouldn't be successful elsewhere with another team taking a flier on him, but looking at the level of coaching and GMing around the league, I think it's very possible that he wouldn't even be in the league or at least not in this position (to command a big pay day) if not by:

1 - His own talent of course.
2 - BB recognizing his potential, giving him a chance and putting him in position to succeed.

If he was let's say a 3rd or 4th round pick, I could very well side with him on this issue, but the guy went undrafted and now is in position to be set for life. Be reasonable and grow up for ****s sake.

Yea I'm not sure I buy into the whole indentured servitude thing.

However, I do wonder if based on his evaluation of Malcolm, BB has reached the conclusion that Malcolm has already hit his ceiling and will never evolve into a Top 5 CB thus why he won't pay him top 5 CB money (that and he doesn't have to.)

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

If butler get's traded would bill be comfortable with what he has or would he add more depth at corner. I say give shields a look.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

 

[XLIX]

I understand the thinking and the logic. By the time these guys are 60 it'll take them and hour to get out of bed and they will be lucky to make it through the day with no pain and be able to remember their children's name. They are already rolling the dice with their lives, why not go for the extra cash. I get it. With that said, because an average NFL player's career lasts about 4 years and Malcolm is 27, that leads to my line of thinking

With that said I have no idea if his agent put a 3yr offer on the table. If he did, hes smart. If he didn't and did not consider his age and the timing of the 2nd contract he was being extremely shortsighted. By not doing the deal in 2016, now hes looking at a big contract in 2018 when he could have had a decent contract in 2016 and be a FA again when he turns 30.

He would lose a lot of money waiting until age 30 to be a free agent compared to age 27.

I am betting in the end, he'd be looking at almost the same total cash earnings but in my scenario he would have gotten $10m sooner and the security that comes with it and not have to wait till 2018 where he has no idea if he will even be healthy. God help him if he blows out his knee.

You can't have it both ways. On the one hand you are saying (paraphrasing) "he should take the short term deal and wait until age 30 to be a UFA." Then in the very next paragraph you say "God help him if he blows out his knee." It's a lot more likely he blows out his knee in a 4-year timespan than in a 1-year timespan.

Assuming money is his top priority, I don't take a penny less than $55M this year and if I can't get that this year then I take out an insurance policy, play for $4M then hit the open market in 2018 and make even more.