UPDATES on Butler situation: Butler wants to be "A Patriots for Life" AND "paid like a Top 10 CB"

[ZoisKing]

Agents and media. A match made in hell.

 

[RobertWeathers]

1. What was the offer that he declined?

I'm going by what has been reported.

What makes you think he "doesn't understand" any of this? What offers has he received, and declined, which makes you think he is doing wrong by his client?

Again, I'm going by what has been reported. If you want to dispute that then we do not have a discussion.

Its not a lack of understanding the situation. Like I said, its a matter of preference

I disagree. His client is worth Gilmore money on the open market. Yes that's still a year away,

We have no idea what Butler is worth because he is not on the market in 2017 and not yet on the market in 2018. He is a RFA. This specific issue is the core problem in every discussion regarding Malcolm's earning power.

but you don't take $35M to $40M today when you can get $65M to $70M tomorrow.

That is your opion.

With all due respect, this advice is stupid. Butler gains absolutely NOTHING by signing the tender right now and he loses the right to negotiate with other teams.

Butler's agent would be a complete moron if he advised Butler to sign the tender right now. There is zero chance whatsoever the Patriots rescind the offer. If Butler holds out, or doesn't sign by June 15, then you have a point. Get back to me in 3 months if that happens.
I don't even see this as "shooting his way out of town." There have been a few unsubstantiated rumors and leaks to the press, but this is not a contentious negotiation compared to ones we have seen in the past.

It has been reported that the Saints deal was complicated because Malcolm did not sign the tender. That is his mechanism to play elsewhere for a team that will pay him what he wants. If he wants to delay that process while other CBs get signed and drafted and cap space is used for other reasons, all he is doing is shrinking his earning potential.

 

[XLIX]

I'm only giving an example of the kind of contract extension any properly advised player would expect to receive, if they haven't already become UDFA.

OK, but that's the problem. People in here are criticizing Butler (and his agent) based on hypotheticals, what-ifs, examples and maybes. For all we know, Butler would have gladly signed a 3 year, $30M extension but never had that option.

If Butler is unhappy with the money he's making now (or made last year) he could take an extension lasting 2 or 3 years, reach unrestricted free agency, and still be young enough to receive a top-of-market contract by age 28 or 29.

3 years is a lifetime in the NFL. He is 1 year away from a huge payday. If he can't get that huge payday this year (from NE or any other team) then the smart thing to do is take out an insurance policy on his health and play for $3.9M.

The point, there is no reason to expect unrestricted free agent money when the team is under no obligation to give it to him at this moment

There's also no reason to expect he is going to take 65 cents on the dollar.

 

[XLIX]

I'm going by what has been reported.


Again, I'm going by what has been reported. If you want to dispute that then we do not have a discussion.

Ignoring the fact that these reports are nothing but rumors, what was it that you read that Butler was offered which he turned down? There have been tons of often-contradictory reports. What are the numbers you are going by here? I can't respond to your post unless you answer the question because when all you say is "that's what was reported" I have no idea whatsoever which reports you subscribe to.

 

[JayNM]

Seriously though, I wish we could have resolution for Butler, HT and Jimmy soon, I'm tired of reading/having the same discussions everyday, all day, lol.

Please Bill do something so we can talk about something else, please

 

[mariomega]

Seriously though, I wish we could have resolution for Butler, HT and Jimmy soon, I'm tired of reading/having the same discussions everyday, all day, lol.

Please Bill do something so we can talk about something else, please

 

[fnordcircle]

I've been told (as I believe others here have probably heard from the same person) some secondhand info about how the Patriots do deals. As in a player told someone else.

I wouldn't consider the 'not paying $10m a year' line to be invalidated by the Revis contract at all. They could have said it and meant it because they had just plain changed their mind between now and then because of the cap what it is now the Gilmore contract seemed doable. Meaning they could have meant it in 2014 cap dollars but not meant it in 2017 cap dollars. They could have said 'annually' because the Revis deal was really just a 1 year deal and they knew they weren't going to have him for a second year. A 1 year hit isn't the same as 10+ a year for several years.

Still, it pains me to say it, but from what I've heard there's stuff that gets said by the Pats during negotiation that is borderline deception. I don't dismiss the Butler camp's claims out of hand. A friend knows Lonnie Paxton and according to him Paxton was told for 3 years straight 'just do a 1 year deal now and we'll take care of you next year.'

 

[nowayback]

So basically if the Pats want they have Butler for 2 years at about 20 mil, franchising him for 15 mil next year. Or else it just turns into 1st round picks . Non exclusive tag next year Pats get 2 1st round picks if he finds team ?

 

[Tuck]

Malcom should direct his frustration toward the player's union for agreeing to Restricted Free Agency.

 

[XLIX]

We have no idea what Butler is worth because he is not on the market in 2017 and not yet on the market in 2018. He is a RFA. This specific issue is the core problem in every discussion regarding Malcolm's earning power.

It can be reasonably assumed that on the open market, he would get Gilmore money. True he is not on the open market this year, and that fact should be a part of any negotiation. But it also means he probably doesn't take 3 years, $24 million right now.

It has been reported that the Saints deal was complicated because Malcolm did not sign the tender. That is his mechanism to play elsewhere for a team that will pay him what he wants. If he wants to delay that process while other CBs get signed and drafted and cap space is used for other reasons, all he is doing is shrinking his earning potential.

It's still early in free agency. We are nowhere near the point where cap space is so short that he is "shrinking his earning potential."

Signing the tender at this point in time would be idiotic. If another team wants to trade for Butler, and they are willing to pay a price the Patriots agree to, then they will have to negotiate a new deal with him first, then he can sign the tender, then do the trade. Not the other way around.

 

[DW Toys]

Belichick should just give him 90% of Gilmore and end this nonsense!

Good post. Have to agree.
Gilmore was a "us first" expedition to get him signed asap and Gilmore took the first huge offer.
I am sure he called Chris Hogan.
I am sure the SB had a lot of merit here.
The Pats had to spend some as well. That is a first to have so much cash.

Butler's agent has to understand that this was the Logan Ryan replacement. Ryan got $10mm for 3. If Butler wants to say he is better than Ryan so be it. How much. better? Could $10.5 for 3 with Pats option for a 4th year and 15 Guaranteed work with a $5mm signing bonus? Throw some other bonus clause in like 8 Int's for a million, Pro Bowl for a million and $500,000 if the Pats go back to the Super Bowl, There is your $13mm and he got his "love and respect" a year early that they did not have to do.

I think the fans need to recall that Eric Rowe started some games over Ryan. Rowe is two years younger. Started seven games versus Ryan's 11 and only had three less PBUs (8). He is a bigger CB than Ryan.

Perhaps with the size of Today,s WR in the NFL Bill is shifting to long CBs? Love Malcom but he is 5'10". He is a pest and that makes him good but big WR like Decker he has trouble with. I saw some roster examples that Butler could be shifted to slot DB. Doubt it.
DW Toys

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Seriously though, I wish we could have resolution for Butler, HT and Jimmy soon, I'm tired of reading/having the same discussions everyday, all day, lol.

Please Bill do something so we can talk about something else, please

lol, speak for yourself. This is easily the most interesting offseason since 2007....easily

 

[XLIX]

So basically if the Pats want they have Butler for 2 years at about 20 mil, franchising him for 15 mil next year. Or else it just turns into 1st round picks . Non exclusive tag next year Pats get 2 1st round picks if he finds team ?

You can't franchise everyone.

 

[IllegalContact]

Giardi: Butler courting offers elsewhere, wants new home

 

[PatsBoy12]

Maybe they're planning on playing Gilmore at safety.
Italics = sarcasm.

If Butler would've signed for $6 or $7 million per last year or this year then I don't think the Pats ink Gilmore. But you never know with BB. It would've been a gut punch if they told him that and he signed and then the Pats signed Gilmore for $65m, yeah, I'd agree.

If there is any truth to this stuff, I think it's a gut punch either way. Butler has been everything we've needed at the position.

 

[neuronet]

Here is his agent at his first court case.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Good post. Have to agree.
Gilmore was a "us first" expedition to get him signed asap and Gilmore took the first huge offer.
I am sure he called Chris Hogan.
I am sure the SB had a lot of merit here.
The Pats had to spend some as well. That is a first to have so much cash.

Butler's agent has to understand that this was the Logan Ryan replacement. Ryan got $10mm for 3. If Butler wants to say he is better than Ryan so be it. How much. better? Could $10.5 for 3 with Pats option for a 4th year and 15 Guaranteed work with a $5mm signing bonus? Throw some other bonus clause in like 8 Int's for a million, Pro Bowl for a million and $500,000 if the Pats go back to the Super Bowl, There is your $13mm and he got his "love and respect" a year early that they did not have to do.

I think the fans need to recall that Eric Rowe started some games over Ryan. Rowe is two years younger. Started seven games versus Ryan's 11 and only had three less PBUs (8). He is a bigger CB than Ryan.

Perhaps with the size of Today,s WR in the NFL Bill is shifting to long CBs? Love Malcom but he is 5'10". He is a pest and that makes him good but big WR like Decker he has trouble with. I saw some roster examples that Butler could be shifted to slot DB. Doubt it.
DW Toys

He's under 5'10 but chris harris's shorter and he's a very good corner. I wouldn't mind having butler here for the right price. I don't know if be would take a chris harris type deal.

 

[mariomega]

lol, speak for yourself. This is easily the most interesting offseason since 2007....easily

So, do you like some drama?

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

If there is any truth to this stuff, I think it's a gut punch either way. Butler has been everything we've needed at the position.

Gilmore's not playing safety. He's a good corner. He has played in alot of defensive schemes in buffalo. He played well in tbe second half of the season. I have seen this guy shut down Beckham jr.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ignoring the fact that these reports are nothing but rumors, what was it that you read that Butler was offered which he turned down? There have been tons of often-contradictory reports. What are the numbers you are going by here? I can't respond to your post unless you answer the question because when all you say is "that's what was reported" I have no idea whatsoever which reports you subscribe to.

Fair question and I've consolidated everything I have heard over the last 1.5 years into a belief.

I heard at the end of 2015 the NEP offered him $7m AAV and 10m guaranteed. He declined and told the NEP what he was looking for. Howe also published that today in a tweet. Whether it is true or not is up to the reader. I think it's close to the truth.

I had heard the two sides got back together during the 2016 season and the discussion lasted about 10 minutes.