Tyquan Thornton

[jdlboot14]

The Patriots under BB are absolutely Rookie-WR-Destroyers. Or - Rowrdes in Star Wars lingo.

 

[archstanton543]

The Patriots under BB are absolutely Rookie-WR-Destroyers. Or - Rowrdes in Star Wars lingo.

I wouldn't say that. I think they're just extremely poor at identifying and picking WR talent. They're not great at developing them either but not as bad as choosing guys to begin with..

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Thorton played in a conference known for having no defense, he is basically a stick figure, it didn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that he can't make it in the NFL.

STOP REACHING FOR PLAYERS!!

Thorton is done, he will never be a reliable player, let alone anything close to a star.

 

[turkeyneck]

Thorton played in a conference known for having no defense, he is basically a stick figure, it didn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that he can't make it in the NFL.

Almost seems like Pats' talent evaluation for WR doesn't extend beyond a fantasy football mindset of looking at stats alone.

 

[upstater1]

The Patriots under BB are absolutely Rookie-WR-Destroyers. Or - Rowrdes in Star Wars lingo.

Mitchell, Givens, Branch, Douglas did alright.

None of the guys who left did anything anywhere else so I'm going to assume they were just bad WRs like most of the guys taken in the draft.

We need an example of a dud who left New England and had even a little bit of success elsewhere.

The problem has always been not enough WRs selected.

Now, things may change. It's possible at least that someone like Thornton plays better with a real QB, but the trend is against him.

Before people look to the vets we brought in who busted (Ochocinco, Galloway, a few others) because the system was too difficult to pick up, you have to acknowledge a couple things. One, there are a ton of examples of vets who picked up the system and did just as well here as elsewhere. There are vets from other teams who had their best seasons ever here (Patten, Welker, Moss, Caldwell, Gaffney, Hogan, Lloyd had his 2nd best season here), and there are guys who came here toward the end of their careers, busted, left, and didn't do anything for their new teams.

 

[VrabelJr]

I wouldn't say that. I think they're just extremely poor at identifying and picking WR talent. They're not great at developing them either but not as bad as choosing guys to begin with..

I'd say Edelman, Meyers, and Douglas point to being good at developing them. Definitely not good at drafting them, but most teams other than Green Bay aren't.

 

[archstanton543]

I'd say Edelman, Meyers, and Douglas point to being good at developing them. Definitely not good at drafting them, but most teams other than Green Bay aren't.

Meyers wasn't drafted. Douglas and Edelman were drafted late. It's nice they hit on those picks. But none of those 3 players had/has true game-breaking talent. Someone the opposing D has to plan for. Edelman played with Gronk who opened up a lot of space for guys like Edelman to operate.

 

[VrabelJr]

Meyers wasn't drafted. Douglas and Edelman were drafted late.

UDFA is even better. Not only did BB identify the talent but also convinced him to sign with us.

But none of those 3 players had/has true game-breaking talent. Someone the opposing D has to plan for. Edelman played with Gronk who opened up a lot of space for guys like Edelman to operate.

That's crazy talk as evidenced by the 2013 and 2016 seasons where Gronk was injured and Edelman had two of his most productive seasons.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I wouldn't say that. I think they're just extremely poor at identifying and picking WR talent. They're not great at developing them either but not as bad as choosing guys to begin with..

I think they just haven't invested much capital in that position over the last 20+ years as opposed to they are terrible at drafting. If you look back at their draft history, the average round they take a WR is like the 4th or 5th round. In fact, they don't even average taking 1 WR per draft. You can't expect much success with that. Not sure where they rank for drafting WR's between rounds 1-3, but they have spent very little within those rounds - only 9 players (1 1st round, 5 2nd round, 3 3rd round).

Also the buzz word "developing" a player is overblown. Either they have it or they don't. You can't take a guy and miraculously make him into a good player. Branch made an instant impact. Givens followed in 2003. Dobson showed something until the injuries took over. Mitchell had a promising rookie season, but his knees were gone. Meyers showed some promise his rookie year and should've had more playing time. Ditto with Douglas. Edelman is the only guy you can make the argument of "developing" as he had to learn how to play the position. But even he showed promise his rookie season.

 

[palialka]

Thornton is a bust... it's unlikely he'll ever be good. It's got a 2% chance of happening with better QBs.

BUT this stuff from George Pickens isn't looking so hot:



This guy is blasting his teammates, getting chewed out by coaches, 2x now in 3 weeks he refuses to give any effort when the ball isn't going to him, he was known as a knucklehead in college.

I'm not sure how long this kind of behavior is going to be condoned in Pittsburgh.

True…whether you like Tomlin as a coach or not, he’s a no nonsense coach so he won’t put up with this Pickens stuff for much longer. Pickens will be riding the pine if this keeps up.

 

[palialka]

The Patriots under BB are absolutely Rookie-WR-Destroyers. Or - Rowrdes in Star Wars lingo.

Yep…no more 2nd round WRs please.

We just need to draft WRs in the 7th round out of Tufts or Holy Cross…we’d have more luck with that lol

Or better yet…Rutgers or Navy

 

[palialka]

Mitchell, Givens, Branch, Douglas did alright.

None of the guys who left did anything anywhere else so I'm going to assume they were just bad WRs like most of the guys taken in the draft.

We need an example of a dud who left New England and had even a little bit of success elsewhere.

The problem has always been not enough WRs selected.

Now, things may change. It's possible at least that someone like Thornton plays better with a real QB, but the trend is against him.

Before people look to the vets we brought in who busted (Ochocinco, Galloway, a few others) because the system was too difficult to pick up, you have to acknowledge a couple things. One, there are a ton of examples of vets who picked up the system and did just as well here as elsewhere. There are vets from other teams who had their best seasons ever here (Patten, Welker, Moss, Caldwell, Gaffney, Hogan, Lloyd had his 2nd best season here), and there are guys who came here toward the end of their careers, busted, left, and didn't do anything for their new teams.

You bring up good points.

With those guys you mentioned…Mitchell should’ve never been drafted because of his knee, Givens and Branch were great here in NE but that was 21 years ago and the jury’s still out on Douglas (although early indications are good).

For whatever reason, the Pats talent evaluation for drafting WRs under BB has been horrendous. As you showed, we do better bringing in veteran WRs but the draft is a head scratcher. We got lucky with JE11, but even that took 2-3 years to pan out.

The only answer I can come up with for the lackluster WR drafting is because having the GOAT as your QB for all those years made it less important for BB to draft stud WRs. Brady elevated the game of everyone around him so WR became a plug and play position for NE. It was just easier and more convenient for BB to bring in solid vet WRs because he knew most of the time they’d perform better with Brady.

 

[upstater1]

I think they just haven't invested much capital in that position over the last 20+ years as opposed to they are terrible at drafting. If you look back at their draft history, the average round they take a WR is like the 4th or 5th round. In fact, they don't even average taking 1 WR per draft. You can't expect much success with that. Not sure where they rank for drafting WR's between rounds 1-3, but they have spent very little within those rounds - only 9 players (1 1st round, 5 2nd round, 3 3rd round).

Also the buzz word "developing" a player is overblown. Either they have it or they don't. You can't take a guy and miraculously make him into a good player. Branch made an instant impact. Givens followed in 2003. Dobson showed something until the injuries took over. Mitchell had a promising rookie season, but his knees were gone. Meyers showed some promise his rookie year and should've had more playing time. Ditto with Douglas. Edelman is the only guy you can make the argument of "developing" as he had to learn how to play the position. But even he showed promise his rookie season.

The period between Dobson and Tyquan proves your point in particular.

You can't go an entire decade by taking just 1 WR in the first 3 rounds (Harry).

Most Patriot fans might be shocked to learn that if Demario Douglas pans out, we'll be at the league average for hitting on WRs. If Boutte pans out, we'll be above.

 

[upstater1]

You bring up good points.

With those guys you mentioned…Mitchell should’ve never been drafted because of his knee, Givens and Branch were great here in NE but that was 21 years ago and the jury’s still out on Douglas (although early indications are good).

For whatever reason, the Pats talent evaluation for drafting WRs under BB has been horrendous. As you showed, we do better bringing in veteran WRs but the draft is a head scratcher. We got lucky with JE11, but even that took 2-3 years to pan out.

The only answer I can come up with for the lackluster WR drafting is because having the GOAT as your QB for all those years made it less important for BB to draft stud WRs. Brady elevated the game of everyone around him so WR became a plug and play position for NE. It was just easier and more convenient for BB to bring in solid vet WRs because he knew most of the time they’d perform better with Brady.

We really don't spend as many picks.

If you look at the Steelers, they use 3 or 4x as much draft capital as the Patriots, and their rate of success is only slightly higher, not much higher.

The reason that Steelers fans don't complain about Calvin Austin, James Washington, Sammie Coates, Dri Archer, Martavis Bryant, Markus Wheaton, Limas Sweed, is because they keep using top picks on receivers despite their busts. They just throw a lot of resources at the problem.

I'm convinced that the Patriots jumped up to pick Thornton right before the Steelers because Thornton's old WR coach (the guy who developed him at Baylor) was/is now the Steelers' WR coach.

 

[palialka]

Thorton played in a conference known for having no defense, he is basically a stick figure, it didn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that he can't make it in the NFL.

STOP REACHING FOR PLAYERS!!

Thorton is done, he will never be a reliable player, let alone anything close to a star.

Yeah I have a feeling that Thornton will be another high round WR bust the Pats are known for. He’ll get one more year to prove himself with hopefully a legit QB1 but I’m not getting my hopes up based on his performance so far.

 

[Toofy]

UDFA is even better. Not only did BB identify the talent but also convinced him to sign with us.


That's crazy talk as evidenced by the 2013 and 2016 seasons where Gronk was injured and Edelman had two of his most productive seasons.

Come on you can't be serious. If you know what Meyers was gonna a become you draft them in earlier round instead of UDFA. That's poor scouting or evaluation .

If you were convinced of douglas potential you draft him higher.

Bill got moderately lucky and Edelman developed because we had Brady, Welker and gronk to allow him to develop over 3 years.

Edelman with mac would have a career similar to Thornton and probablyoutbof league in 3 years. Brady was the vital cog that helped keep the offensive side whirring. Bill just doesn't have it anymore on offensive side - talent evaluation, player development, scheme, identifying OCs or QB coach, qb development - nothing!

Meyers was the bona-fide wide receiver success whom we left for free to the raiders. Watch him tear up stats and be a pretty successful wide receiver while we draft duds in second and 4th rounds.

Offensive side bill has gone bonkers with his drafting. Enough of trying to defend it. It's super lame now.

 

[Pape]

I'd say Edelman, Meyers, and Douglas point to being good at developing them. Definitely not good at drafting them, but most teams other than Green Bay aren't.

add malcolm mitchell to that mix... too bad he got derailed by that bum knee

 

[VrabelJr]

Come on you can't be serious. If you know what Meyers was gonna a become you draft them in earlier round instead of UDFA. That's poor scouting or evaluation .

If you were convinced of douglas potential you draft him higher.

Bill got moderately lucky and Edelman developed because we had Brady, Welker and gronk to allow him to develop over 3 years.

Edelman with mac would have a career similar to Thornton and probablyoutbof league in 3 years. Brady was the vital cog that helped keep the offensive side whirring. Bill just doesn't have it anymore on offensive side - talent evaluation, player development, scheme, identifying OCs or QB coach, qb development - nothing!

Meyers was the bona-fide wide receiver success whom we left for free to the raiders. Watch him tear up stats and be a pretty successful wide receiver while we draft duds in second and 4th rounds.

Offensive side bill has gone bonkers with his drafting. Enough of trying to defend it. It's super lame now.

Do you notice any unfairness with how you attribute and take away credit from BB or should I point it out for you?

 

[Toofy]

Do you notice any unfairness with how you attribute and take away credit from BB or should I point it out for you?

Not really. I give bill credit for drafting on defensive side sans 2nd round DB where bill was royally offensive.

But on offense last 6 years we have just kept whiffing. We have got Meyers and douglas to a certain extent to feel good about , but can we consider that to be bills drafting philosophy or roll of dice and gettibg lucky . We can consider ram as a success. I just feel they were playing with darts in lower rounds. But when it comes to first 3 rounds, they just lacked any ability to figure out offensive talent .

Harry, Thornton, Asiasi, Keene , Michel, Wynn, strange to a certain extent ( he seems decent but overdrafted for first round ).

Bill is a rank bad GM over last 6 years who should have been fired 3 years back.

I am thankful to Bill for all memories and the wins, but at this point considering his age and his preferences he might be best suited to lead a contender to super bowl with better coaching.

Sadly we are nowhere near that and bill did dig us into the big abyss that we are in now.

 

[n6249c]

…
The only answer I can come up with for the lackluster WR drafting is because having the GOAT as your QB for all those years made it less important for BB to draft stud WRs. Brady elevated the game of everyone around him so WR became a plug and play position for NE. It was just easier and more convenient for BB to bring in solid vet WRs because he knew most of the time they’d perform better with Brady.

I think you’ve hit on it. Brady was able to make chicken salad out of chicken feathers. He made everybody around him better, at least until he got spoiled and only wanted to throw to his favorites, so any WR that wasn’t favored by Brady didn’t get that improvement. And then things fell apart when Bill wasn’t bringing in the guys Brady wanted.