Tom Brady Was the Most-Hit QB in the League, from 2006-2007

[TriplecHamp]

Would those viewers be able to give us the "hit" numbers for the years prior to 2006, by any chance?

Why don't you try to find out instead of asking him a billion times. He obviously doesn't know them because the original article didn't list them. Its not like he is hiding them. Can you try to find them and enlighten us.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why don't you try to find out instead of asking him a billion times. He obviously doesn't know them because the original article didn't list them. Its not like he is hiding them. Can you try to find them and enlighten us.

Read the bloody thread and you'll understand, perhaps. Here, let me help you. I'll cite the quote and then pull it from the post in case it gets edited later:

..

So you're saying just accept it?

Brady wasn't hit nearly as much pre-2005, with much crappier offensive weapons.

I disagree with your implication that the Pats should just keep going deep and using slow developing pass plays, like they did in 2006 and 2007.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

You do know this is the same offense that that rohan davey was the back up QB in right? I never said Cullpeper could start for us nor did I say I wish he was on the team. Culpeper is an NFL QB. He obviously is doing something right. He can run the Offense. So can Tom Brady, Matt Guiterez and Matt cassel and Brian Hoyer etc. Can he run it better than any of them? Who knows. As for Rob, Find one article or statement from BB that says he runs his offense simmilar to Urban Meyers. I bet you cant because they are diffrent. The word Spread is one of the few things they have in common. Urban Meyer runs an Option-Spread based upon the speed at RB that they have. If you have watched UF recently you would know this. If you look at OU's spread offense it is much more simmilar compared to NE's. All you have to do is look at the Pass/Run Ratios.

Easy there killah! First off, I never said a damn thing about Urban Meyer. Take that up with your other buddies. Secondly, Rohan Davey???? Are you serious? You brought him into this discussion???? Thats almost as bad as Culpepper. As for Matt Gutt, yeah, he was so good at running the offense that he was cut after preseason. Thesame preseason that many morons on this board said that Cassel should be cut...hmmm...how'd that work out? Oh by the way. Saying Culpepper is an nfl QB, ranks up there with saying Vince Young is an Nfl QB. They maybe employed by theNFL, but that doesnt mean they're any good

 

[BradyFTW!]

Why don't you try to find out instead of asking him a billion times. He obviously doesn't know them because the original article didn't list them. Its not like he is hiding them. Can you try to find them and enlighten us.

He asserted that Brady wasn't hit as much pre-2005. He made the claim, therefore it's his job to either back it up or admit that he's making an assumption based on memory (and we all know how reliable memory-based assumptions like that are).

 

[DaBruinz]

Why don't you try to find out instead of asking him a billion times. He obviously doesn't know them because the original article didn't list them. Its not like he is hiding them. Can you try to find them and enlighten us.

If he doesn't know the information, he should say so instead of acting like every "hit" mentioned could have killed Brady.

Also, it is Maverick's argument so he should be the one to provide the information.

Instead of kissing his arse in every thread, you should try and think for yourself.

 

[DaBruinz]

You do know this is the same offense that that rohan davey was the back up QB in right? I never said Cullpeper could start for us nor did I say I wish he was on the team. Culpeper is an NFL QB. He obviously is doing something right. He can run the Offense. So can Tom Brady, Matt Guiterez and Matt cassel and Brian Hoyer etc. Can he run it better than any of them? Who knows. As for Rob, Find one article or statement from BB that says he runs his offense simmilar to Urban Meyers. I bet you cant because they are diffrent. The word Spread is one of the few things they have in common. Urban Meyer runs an Option-Spread based upon the speed at RB that they have. If you have watched UF recently you would know this. If you look at OU's spread offense it is much more simmilar compared to NE's. All you have to do is look at the Pass/Run Ratios.

A few things.

1) Rohan Davey never ran this offense while McDaniels was the OC. McDaniels wasn't named OC until 2006 and Davey was gone then.

2) This offense changed some from Weis to McDaniels.

3) To my knowledge, the only snaps Davey took were in garbage time.. Many of them were just kneel downs or handoffs.

3) What you and some others don't realize is that Davey never earned himself the #2 spot. It was handed to him. He never beat Huard in camp. And he proved he couldn't handle it.

4) The Pass / Run ratios don't tell you SQUAT about the type of offense. It only tells you whether they favored the pass or the run more.

5) I don't know what rock you've been hiding under, but Belichick has gone down to Florida to visit Urban Meyer for the past few years to share coaching ideas with one another. Its similar to what he and Saban used to do. And no, BB won't ever say that they use similar offenses, but if you actually watched them, you can see how they are similar.

BTW, what do you call a spread offense that requires the receivers to read the defenses and adjust their routes based on what they read from the defense? To me, that is an option offense. Because the receivers have numerous options. I know that its not the traditional terminology for option, but if you actually look at football through out the ages, you'd know that even there terms evolve. A perfect example are the Backs. The Full back, Half back and Quarterback were not always as they are now. In fact, some of the best running backs in Pats history (Cunningham, Nance) were full backs and not half backs.

 

[Rob0729]

You do know this is the same offense that that rohan davey was the back up QB in right? I never said Cullpeper could start for us nor did I say I wish he was on the team. Culpeper is an NFL QB. He obviously is doing something right. He can run the Offense. So can Tom Brady, Matt Guiterez and Matt cassel and Brian Hoyer etc. Can he run it better than any of them? Who knows. As for Rob, Find one article or statement from BB that says he runs his offense simmilar to Urban Meyers. I bet you cant because they are diffrent. The word Spread is one of the few things they have in common. Urban Meyer runs an Option-Spread based upon the speed at RB that they have. If you have watched UF recently you would know this. If you look at OU's spread offense it is much more simmilar compared to NE's. All you have to do is look at the Pass/Run Ratios.

When the Patriots' Bill Belichick has a coaching problem -- and he hasn't had many in recent years -- he turns to an unlikely source for advice and guidance.

Not someone like Bill Parcells, his former boss with three NFL franchises.
Not Romeo Crennel or Charlie Weis, the coordinators who worked for him on New England's three Super Bowl championship teams.
Not anyone with NFL ties, in fact.

No, as Belichick steams toward a fourth Super Bowl title, which would match Pittsburgh's Hall of Fame coach, Chuck Noll, his closest coaching confidante appears to be the University of Florida's Urban Meyer, a man with whom Belichick never has worked, but with whom he has nonetheless developed an extremely close relationship.

Most significantly, Belichick has soaked up and incorporated elements of Meyer's spread offense. Meyer, however, is quick to tell you that it isn't really his offense, anyway, that, "Most of my ideas are ones that I have borrowed from someone else," adding, "The whole concept of the spread offense started from visiting other great offensive minds."

Said Belichick: "Sometimes, I bounce stuff off him. Sometimes, he bounces stuff off me. I value his opinion and advice when he gives it to me. I appreciate it."

"I went down there (to Gainesville), and it was good for me," Belichick said. "The offense he runs is very ... I won't say it's a pro-style offense, but it's an open offense that has a lot of pro elements to it.

"From what I know about Urban, he runs a program similar to the way we run our program, so we talked about lots of things relative to technical football, Xs and Os, how to deal with different stuff that's common (to both pro and college football)."

Belichick turns to unlikey source for coaching advice

Oh snap! You must feel a little foolish now huh?!?

 

[unoriginal]

The "option" in option offense means the QB has at least one run read on most plays. It has nothing to do with passing routes.

TriplecHamp is right in that the shotgun spread as run by Tom Brady and the Pats does not often call for Brady to key for a crashing end, fake the dive to Kevin Faulk, then run a sweep. Nor does the deep horseshoe pocket protection the Pats use favor a run option on pass plays without an audible.

And he's right in that the pass/run ratios reflect this. Spread option offenses like what West Virginia, Florida, and Texas run give the QB the unilateral ability to tuck and run the ball on just about every play, run or pass. Consequently they tend to run near 2/3rds of the time and the QB usually leads them in rushing attempts, since he'll be the carrier on nearly half the running plays and a sizable minority of the passing plays.

College being college a normal spread team will still run half the time or more, but the QB won't be anywhere close to the leader in carries.

I disagree with his other points however.

 

[Rob0729]

The "option" in option offense means the QB has at least one run read on most plays. It has nothing to do with passing routes.

TriplecHamp is right in that the shotgun spread as run by Tom Brady and the Pats does not often call for Brady to key for a crashing end, fake the dive to Kevin Faulk, then run a sweep. Nor does the deep horseshoe pocket protection the Pats use favor a run option on pass plays without an audible.

And he's right in that the pass/run ratios reflect this. Spread option offenses like what West Virginia, Florida, and Texas run give the QB the unilateral ability to tuck and run the ball on just about every play, run or pass. Consequently they tend to run near 2/3rds of the time and the QB usually leads them in rushing attempts, since he'll be the carrier on nearly half the running plays and a sizable minority of the passing plays.

College being college a normal spread team will still run half the time or more, but the QB won't be anywhere close to the leader in carries.

I disagree with his other points however.

The Pats obviously had to modify the option aspect of Meyers' defense because you don't want Brady running with the ball 150-200 times a year. But then again, no QB in the NFL other than Michael Vick has ever ran as much as a Tim Tebow would in a given season.

Besides, the option doesn't define the Meyers' spread offense. It is just a component of it. Any college offensive system would have to be modified quite a bit to fit the NFL (something Steve Spurrier learned the hard way) and Meyers' offense needs to have a reduction in the option and many of the routes because they would not be effective at the college level. Just like Daniel Snyder found out when he paid Spurrier so much to bring the Fun N Gun to the NFL only to discover that the Redskins receivers couldn't get separation against NFL CBs like Florida Gator WRs did vs. college CBs.

 

[unoriginal]

the option doesn't define the Meyers' spread offense.

This is an accurate assessment of Florida's spread; my examples were pitched to address the fact the Pats do not run "option" because they and Florida have similar passing trees.

Just like Daniel Snyder found out when he paid Spurrier so much to bring the Fun N Gun to the NFL only to discover that the Redskins receivers couldn't get separation against NFL CBs like Florida Gator WRs did vs. college CBs.

Now I get to turn the tables on you. The problem with Spurrier's Fun'n'Gun is not that it puts durress on receivers to achieve separation, on the contrary the offense is geared to achieve just that, spreading the field both wide and deep, thereby giving the QB the ability to maximize yards gained on each play.

The problem is in protection. On the college level his five man Florida lines and blocking backs could maintain the necessary protection against simpler, less athletically talented college defenses. But in the NFL, where DEs and OLBs can turn the corner on the QB in 2 seconds and jump over, run around or steamroll tackles and backs, Spurrier's lightweight protection schemes and deep, branching pass tree were poorly suited for each other.

The best way to beat the Fun'n'Gun isn't to drape a corner all over the receivers, it's to use a strong outside rush to overpower and outflank the short line and zone drop interior defenders.

 

[Smith21]

i just have to say.. only patriots fan can figure out how having the worst stat about something in the league really isnt that bad..


to be a good Team you need to be good in part of the game.. how do we judge that?? statS!
but hey maybe letting your qb take the hits because they didnt want to leave that extra half back in to chip the linebacker...maybe theres an upside to that also..
it allowed for matt cassell to run something like 71 times..(scared 55 of those times im sure)
and if it wasnt for that 270 yards, the patriots rush offense would of been outside the top ten..
soo i guess there is a plus side!!

 

[Deus Irae]

i just have to say.. only patriots fan can figure out how having the worst stat about something in the league really isnt that bad..


to be a good Team you need to be good in part of the game.. how do we judge that?? statS!
but hey maybe letting your qb take the hits because they didnt want to leave that extra half back in to chip the linebacker...maybe theres an upside to that also..
it allowed for matt cassell to run something like 71 times..(scared 55 of those times im sure)
and if it wasnt for that 270 yards, the patriots rush offense would of been outside the top ten..
soo i guess there is a plus side!!

Always good to see the trolls

 

[Smith21]

Always good to see the trolls

i was actually hoping for a good discussion...
also great to see your post numbers go up for absolutely no reason
aka posting about a troll..

 

[Deus Irae]

i was actually hoping for a good discussion...
also great to see your post numbers go up for absolutely no reason
aka posting about a troll..

You were trolling. Just like you're doing now.

(scared 55 of those times im sure)

Isn't hoping for a good discussion. Now, get back under the bridge.

 

[Ring 6]

Are you saying your eyes are better than a very straight-forward statistic?

From multiple other viewer's eyes, Brady has been pounded much more than he used to the past few years.

The stats are not straight forward, and that is the problem. You throw out a number of 'hits' but refuse to define what constitutes a hit. Clearly it doesnt include sacks because some of those QBs had more sacks than you show for hits, so your stat is useless until it is defined.
Almost every single commentator that did a Patriots game in 2007 talked a lot about how Brady had all day in the pocket. Thats what I saw.
The fact is that MANY fans blow things out of proportion. Anything negative EVER happenining becomes epidemic when it happens twice. Corners allowing catches, QBs getting hit or sacked, defense allowing 3rd down conversions, 2 good rushing plays in a series, are all examples of things that get enormously overblown, as if its incredulous that they could ever happen. Of course, whining about play calling as if every play is suppoed to work like there is no defense trying to stop it, tops them all, but you know that well.

 

[Ring 6]

I actually when and read the bloggers article that you are calling the gospel.
First, the stat is times hit while throwing. That absolutely does not mean most times hit. IT doesnt count sacks, it doesnt count hits AFTER throwing the ball. It adds up to probably 25% of the equation.
So everything you have said in this thread is based upon misinformation.
The article even says that the numbers probably surprise a lot of people because YOU DON'T EVEN NOTICE THE CONTACT WHEN THE BALL GETS THROWN. Clearly implying these stats are not quantifiying hard, injury threatening hits.
Tom Brady, obvious to anyone who studies the Pats, will absolutely, in every case, hold the ball the extra partial second to make the play work at the expense of getting hit. He also is LEGENDARY for movement in the pocket which results in both misses and non-direct hits.
Your entire argument is based on you pretending your stat is something it isnt.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I actually when and read the bloggers article that you are calling the gospel.
First, the stat is times hit while throwing. That absolutely does not mean most times hit. IT doesnt count sacks, it doesnt count hits AFTER throwing the ball. It adds up to probably 25% of the equation.
So everything you have said in this thread is based upon misinformation.
The article even says that the numbers probably surprise a lot of people because YOU DON'T EVEN NOTICE THE CONTACT WHEN THE BALL GETS THROWN. Clearly implying these stats are not quantifiying hard, injury threatening hits.
Tom Brady, obvious to anyone who studies the Pats, will absolutely, in every case, hold the ball the extra partial second to make the play work at the expense of getting hit. He also is LEGENDARY for movement in the pocket which results in both misses and non-direct hits.
Your entire argument is based on you pretending your stat is something it isnt.

/thread over.

 

[captain stone]

...First, the stat is times hit while throwing. That absolutely does not mean most times hit. IT doesnt count sacks, it doesnt count hits AFTER throwing the ball. It adds up to probably 25% of the equation...
The article even says that the numbers probably surprise a lot of people because YOU DON'T EVEN NOTICE THE CONTACT WHEN THE BALL GETS THROWN. Clearly implying these stats are not quantifiying hard, injury threatening hits.
Tom Brady, obvious to anyone who studies the Pats, will absolutely, in every case, hold the ball the extra partial second to make the play work at the expense of getting hit...

So, am I to infer then that Brady gets hit even more than the study claims?

I find that very, very disturbing.

This Offensive Line is not getting better, folks; it's getting older, and getting worse. And unless SeaBass becomes the next Michael Roos, there is no help whatsoever on the horizon - near or distant.

 

[Smith21]

You were trolling. Just like you're doing now.



Isn't hoping for a good discussion. Now, get back under the bridge.

your opinion isnt needed...
the fact that you sit on one message board (unless your a troll)
means that you are an avid supporter of the patriots and you dont like to see outside sources, so i hope the offensive line is better this year because tom brady wont be rushing 73 times like matt did,

Fact matt threw 63.4 percent of his passes for a 7.2 yard average...
Fact matt Ran 73 times for a 3.7 yard average

now that i gave some facts.. wouldnt you rather him throw than get SCared into running.. obviously his 73 rushes were a sign of him being harrased.. but if you dont like good football conversations maybe you should find the bridge you assume im hiding under and sit under it... because some how you got almost 10 thousand post by saying "troll" "go under the bridge"

p.s. I dont really expect you to respond with a brilliant response..
i expect "troll!"

 

[Patjew]

So, am I to infer then that Brady gets hit even more than the study claims?

I find that very, very disturbing.

This Offensive Line is not getting better, folks; it's getting older, and getting worse. And unless SeaBass becomes the next Michael Roos, there is no help whatsoever on the horizon - near or distant.

I infer that and also that some other QBs may in fact get hit much more than Brady when everything is added together. What can you do, these guys are targets.