(They say) This Hypothetical Earl Thomas-Patriots Trade Makes Ton Of Sense

[luuked]

NO. It just doesn’t work that way. He doesn’t decide if he thinks there will be pressure than change the progressions. If he has escape pressure then things change but if Gronk was the progression he has to stay with him until his route is complete otherwise Gronk wouldn’t be the progression.

You are making it sound like he has to stay with each progression for the entirety of the allotted time which is just not true. If you see an opponent double on one of the patterns out there you move on to the next thing and don't stay with it until the very end.

He simply thought that he had enough time in the pocket to wait out Gronks route and if #87 would not get open enough Brady would have just dumped it off to White who he already knew was open. Again, situationally if you see a team doubling Gronk and you have your RB open and ready to get a first down a player with Brady's experience should not get too greedy but take what the opponent is giving him.

Yes, Gronk might have beaten the coverage but why even risk the more difficult throw for an additional 10-15 yards if you can have a first down for free and just move on to the next play ?

 

[Ring 6]

You are making it sound like he has to stay with each progression for the entirety of the allotted time which is just not true.

What in the world do you think a progression is. If Gronk is progression #1 and his route takes 2 seconds Brady’s job is to wait for that route to complete.

If you see an opponent double on one of the patterns out there you move on to the next thing and don't stay with it until the very end.

The progressions are dictated by the coverage. So if Gronk is his #1 progression as the play develops then that is based upon the coverage.

He simply thought that he had enough time in the pocket to wait out Gronks route and if #87 would not get open enough Brady would have just dumped it off to White who he already knew was open.

This is a total misunderstanding of how it works. If the play call says Gronk is route 1, unless you have to escape pressure first, you aren’t even looking at white. You are seeing what the coverage is, by reading off of gronks route. You aren’t looking at white. If he is looking at white he isn’t executing the play call.

Again, situationally if you see a team doubling Gronk and you have your RB open and ready to get a first down a player with Brady's experience should not get too greedy but take what the opponent is giving him.

Brady read the route and was either throwing to Gronk or checking down (can’t tell from the angle) when he got hit.
He can’t make progressions happen faster than the route.
I’d like to see an all22 of the play if anyone has it because from this clip you can’t see it Gronk comes open or someone jumps the route.
But in any event you don’t abandon your primary route before it’s run otherwise it wouldn’t be your primary route. To suggest otherwise suggests a qb is back there trying to guess which of the 5 receivers will be open which is ridiculous

Yes, Gronk might have beaten the coverage but why even risk the more difficult throw for an additional 10-15 yards if you can have a first down for free and just move on to the next play ?

Because it’s the play call. You are asking Brady in hindsight to abandon the play call because as it turned out his RG didn’t protect long enough for him to execute the play call beyond the point of ****ing his arm to make the throw. Please explain the criteria for when Brady should follow the execution of the play and when he should make things up. Are you expecting him to also watch all 5 lineman to decide if he needs to create a new play based on their blocking?

 

[luuked]

What in the world do you think a progression is. If Gronk is progression #1 and his route takes 2 seconds Brady’s job is to wait for that route to complete.

Only if there is a good chance Gronk will be open at the place of the field that Brady wants him to be. But since Gronk regularly beats even double coverages this has morphed into "lets just let Gronk do what he does". Otherwise you can move on to the next read and don't have to wait it out.

Whatever.. have it your way this discussion has not enough relevance to make me invest more time into it.

 

[Ring 6]

Only if there is a good chance Gronk will be open at the place of the field that Brady wants him to be. But since Gronk regularly beats even double coverages this has morphed into "lets just let Gronk do what he does". Otherwise you can move on to the next read and don't have to wait it out.

You just dont get it. Brady follows the play call. He can’t just make up things you wish he did in hindsight. That’s not how it works.

Whatever.. have it your way this discussion has not enough relevance to make me invest more time into it.

It’s actyally a great discussion because many fans don’t understand the concept but it appears as usual you want to argue your uninformed believe instead of discussing and learning something. So as you say whatever.

 

[Love The Drake]

You just dont get it. Brady follows the play call. He can’t just make up things you wish he did in hindsight. That’s not how it works.


It’s actyally a great discussion because many fans don’t understand the concept but it appears as usual you want to argue your uninformed believe instead of discussing and learning something. So as you say whatever.

I agree with both parties sure he's given a play by Josh and he believes and trusts that puts him in the best position to win.
However to say the play isn't designed to go to second or third options I have to respectfully disagree.
First read was Gronk but when you have the best receiving back in the NFL for a easy first down that's the correct read.
As far as Tom knowing how all 5 lineman are doing.
He definitely can't see all the interactions but what makes Tom special is his pocket awareness and being able to feel the pressure before it comes.
This was on Tom he saw a big play and of course he trusts putting it up there just like Moss.
However that extra 2 seconds decided the game.
Sure Mason is a dominate run blocker and not a elite pass blocker as of yet.
Do people really think Tom would of had a Superbowl record for yardage if Mason was getting owned all day?
The Oline played alot better than my expectations and the only thing crazy about the Graham play who is a amazing guy by the way is it didn't happen sooner.
I was expecting that kind of pressure on Brady at least 3 times.

 

[mgteich]

I think that the bottom line is that Belichick will CONSIDER trading Mason and/or Flowers if he doesn't expect them t0 re-sign next year. Obviously, we are trading the value of their play in 2018 plus a 2020 3rd.

I would think that both have considerable 2018 value for us. However, they both also have considerable 2018 value for other teams.

 

[DW Toys]

Except Mason is overrated. He’s not a complete player and shouldn’t command the money he’s going to get. Earl Thomas is much better than Vaccaro or Boston. You might have an argument for Reid, who I like as a player, but even he isn’t as good as Thomas.

Actually agree with you Cousin.
Why the love for Reid? Benched in SF. They won't even make his an offer. Plus do we need a SJW to an already tense locker room? No way even if he played for "0".
BB picked up Rodney even when he had Malloy because of the intensity he brought. I can't see why this is not different.
I can't see the Seahawks letting him go for Shaq even up. He is a mediocre pass blocker at best.
The natural trade is still Stoner Harmon and? Harmon replaces the hole if they trade Wilson. The Hawks are shaky at TE. Niklas might make Dwayne Allen redundant. Maybe they bite on Dorsett (I like the kid but.......).
Malcomb Brown makes sense. The Pats will not pay him $7mm.
Browns and Harmon in a good old fashioned professional Sports trade.

Wilson is a young star player who upgrades the defense immediately.

BB has an opportunity. Let's see if he sees it.
DW Toys

 

[Ring 6]

I agree with both parties sure he's given a play by Josh and he believes and trusts that puts him in the best position to win.
However to say the play isn't designed to go to second or third options I have to respectfully disagree.

You yourself are calling them 2nd and 3rd options.
Football and play design is about assignments. Brady’s assignment is to make the first profession read THEN look 2,3 etc.
If he were to decide that he can ignore the primary route, the one the urgent routes are designed to make the open route, because he sees a guy open in the flat, he wouldn’t have the success he has had.

First read was Gronk but when you have the best receiving back in the NFL for a easy first down that's the correct read.

No it’s not. The correct read is the primary target then check down.

As far as Tom knowing how all 5 lineman are doing.
He definitely can't see all the interactions but what makes Tom special is his pocket awareness and being able to feel the pressure before it comes.
This was on Tom he saw a big play and of course he trusts putting it up there just like Moss.

NO. He carried out his assignment. “He saw a big play” is a ridiculous comment. He ran the play as called and the blocking didn’t hold up.

However that extra 2 seconds decided the game.

That’s on the blocking and the play call. It’s not on the QB if you call a play with a 2.5 sec primary route and he gets strip sacked at 2.4.

Sure Mason is a dominate run blocker and not a elite pass blocker as of yet.
Do people really think Tom would of had a Superbowl record for yardage if Mason was getting owned all day?
The Oline played alot better than my expectations and the only thing crazy about the Graham play who is a amazing guy by the way is it didn't happen sooner.
I was expecting that kind of pressure on Brady at least 3 times.

This has nothing to do with how a qb read progressions.

 

[Love The Drake]

You yourself are calling them 2nd and 3rd options.
Football and play design is about assignments. Brady’s assignment is to make the first profession read THEN look 2,3 etc.
If he were to decide that he can ignore the primary route, the one the urgent routes are designed to make the open route, because he sees a guy open in the flat, he wouldn’t have the success he has had.



No it’s not. The correct read is the primary target then check down.


NO. He carried out his assignment. “He saw a big play” is a ridiculous comment. He ran the play as called and the blocking didn’t hold up.

That’s on the blocking and the play call. It’s not on the QB if you call a play with a 2.5 sec primary route and he gets strip sacked at 2.4.



This has nothing to do with how a qb read progressions.

I would pay to see BB break that play down in film study.

 

[Chuck Walden]

Shaq Mason is a really good guard, and everyone's gonna judge him for one play. Come on guys, be smarter than that

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Shaq Mason is a really good guard, and everyone's gonna judge him for one play. Come on guys, be smarter than that

He also allowed brady to be sacked in SB 51. Two of the biggest games he was not at his best.

 

[Kontradiction]

Here is the all-22 view of that play. And it doesn’t look like Gronk was his first read at all and looks like it may have been Dorsett, but Brady comes off of him quickly.

Coaches Film (All-22 + Endzone View) of Brandon Graham's Strip Sack on Tom Brady

Credit to Brady for seeing that the coverage didn’t warrant him sticking with Dorsett. The coverage looks like Cover-3 buzz to me due to the SS dropping down as a middle hook. I don’t think they fooled Brady but I don’t see how he could look at Gronk for as long as he did with that deep breaking of an out route. When Gronk broke, that throw would have been through a very, VERY tight window. But Brady has completed those before. Due to the coverage, though, White was left wide open and even Amendola may have been a safer throw.

 

[Lee144]

You yourself are calling them 2nd and 3rd options.
Football and play design is about assignments. Brady’s assignment is to make the first profession read THEN look 2,3 etc.
If he were to decide that he can ignore the primary route, the one the urgent routes are designed to make the open route, because he sees a guy open in the flat, he wouldn’t have the success he has had.



No it’s not. The correct read is the primary target then check down.


NO. He carried out his assignment. “He saw a big play” is a ridiculous comment. He ran the play as called and the blocking didn’t hold up.

That’s on the blocking and the play call. It’s not on the QB if you call a play with a 2.5 sec primary route and he gets strip sacked at 2.4.



This has nothing to do with how a qb read progressions.

Andy, I’ve got to ask. Have you ever played football? Like ever? College? Indoor, arena? Anything? Your thought process of a QBs LOS cues, along with progression of a play is that of a high school offense. No disrespect intended here by any means but just trying to qualify your statements regarding play generation. New England’s offense, for a receiver is as complex as they get.

 

[Love The Drake]

Andy, I’ve got to ask. Have you ever played football? Like ever? College? Indoor, arena? Anything? Your thought process of a QBs LOS cues, along with progression of a play is that of a high school offense. No disrespect intended here by any means but just trying to qualify your statements regarding play generation. New England’s offense, for a receiver is as complex as they get.

This is Tom Brady he should be able to go thru his progressions this isnt Lamar Jackson its Tom Effing Brady

 

[Chuck Walden]

He also allowed brady to be sacked in SB 51. Two of the biggest games he was not at his best.

That was the only sack allowed against a damn good Eagles front seven. **** happens, the timing of it obviously sucks, but if Brady holds on to the football nobody remembers the sack. And the o-line as a unit gave up like five sacks against Atlanta. That wasn’t just Mason by any means

 

[supafly]

He also allowed brady to be sacked in SB 51. Two of the biggest games he was not at his best.

Do you know how many he allowed in the Falcons SB? I know they were getting real good pressure up the middle, but I don’t know who was allowing that. Mason was responsible on some level, no doubt.

As a matter of fact, one of their DTs had 3 sacks, and almost sacked Brady in the end zone for a 4th during the game tying drive to send it to OT.

 

[supafly]

That was the only sack allowed against a damn good Eagles front seven. **** happens, the timing of it obviously sucks, but if Brady holds on to the football nobody remembers the sack. And the o-line as a unit gave up like five sacks against Atlanta. That wasn’t just Mason by any means

Mason is a good to very good run blocking RG who has some weaknesses in pass protection. That said, I don’t think he had as many sacks pinned on him last year as most of us initially thought, either. I don’t know if he’s worth 11-12-13m dollars, though. Luckily, Belichick gets paid good money to make those decisions.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Do you know how many he allowed in the Falcons SB? I know they were getting real good pressure up the middle, but I don’t know who was allowing that. Mason was responsible on some level, no doubt.

As a matter of fact, one of their DTs had 3 sacks, and almost sacked Brady in the end zone for a 4th during the game tying drive to send it to OT.

I know it was at least one sack. Grady Jarrett was destroying the o-line that night. I wouldn’t be surprised if Atlanta found a weakness with Shaq Mason and lined up Grady Jarrett against him that game.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Andy, I’ve got to ask. Have you ever played football? Like ever? College? Indoor, arena? Anything? Your thought process of a QBs LOS cues, along with progression of a play is that of a high school offense. No disrespect intended here by any means but just trying to qualify your statements regarding play generation. New England’s offense, for a receiver is as complex as they get.

I agree with what you're saying. I played high school football and had morons for coaches yet claimed they worked with John Madden. We ran the worst offense of all time. 3 backs, 1 TE and 1 WR. Defenses could easily take out the WR and it was sack city. We had to throw to who the play was designed for or we'd get chewed out. It was idiotic. I would think NFL offenses have a play that is designed for a particular player to get open but the QB progressions could change based on the defense at the LOS (showing blitz, in certain coverage). For this play and situation, White was wide open at the snap and Brady would probably agree he should've just taken the yards, 1st down and stopped the clock.

Here is the all-22 view of that play. And it doesn’t look like Gronk was his first read at all and looks like it may have been Dorsett, but Brady comes off of him quickly.

Coaches Film (All-22 + Endzone View) of Brandon Graham's Strip Sack on Tom Brady

Credit to Brady for seeing that the coverage didn’t warrant him sticking with Dorsett. The coverage looks like Cover-3 buzz to me due to the SS dropping down as a middle hook. I don’t think they fooled Brady but I don’t see how he could look at Gronk for as long as he did with that deep breaking of an out route. When Gronk broke, that throw would have been through a very, VERY tight window. But Brady has completed those before. Due to the coverage, though, White was left wide open and even Amendola may have been a safer throw.

Nice find. The one thing I notice about a lot of NFL offenses is how contested they are. I'm not a huge fan of players running into the same area as others as it allows defenses to clog the area or passes being tipped by the wrong WR. Just look before the snap of the ball how close the Eagles defenders are hanging around the LOS. There's no way Brady could've thought Gronk was going to clear that quick.

Surprised coaches don't spread their players out more which will put some defenders (LB's, S's) in no man's land and the secondary into a man to man defense.

 

[Joker]

Speak My Language

The Patriots offense explained over the past 20 years