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The Staff Can Indeed Evaluate Our Wide Receivers

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If that were true they would be producing something. 74 yards in 5 games isn’t all the QB.
When Brissett was the QB in Cleveland and started 11 games Amari Cooper had 1130 rec yard and Donovan freaking Peoples-Jones had 838.
The Rush has gotten to Brissett literally and figuratively so he has regressed some he's very hesitant even after scrambling to find open Guys. It's obvious Mayo is seeing the light now thus the pending change.
 
How often is he open? Is he open on time, in the window?
Are you actually studying all22? We had people on her showing freeze frames to say look he’s open. That’s not how it works.
Every receiver doesn’t get the ball every time they are “open”. Every receiver in the league can find plays they were “open”. It’s the frequency and the question of were they truly open in the context of the play.
He got 6 targets last week and caught 1.

I’m not necessarily down on him but a WR starting and producing <2 catches and <15 yards simply isn’t a guy going great and it’s all the QBs fault.
Our WR's are suffering from abysmal OL and QB Play look at Juju putting up 130 yards last night in KC I didn't think he had it in him. From Mac Jones to Brissett now back to Mahomes Good QB Play does matter.
 
How often is he open? Is he open on time, in the window?
Are you actually studying all22? We had people on her showing freeze frames to say look he’s open. That’s not how it works.
Every receiver doesn’t get the ball every time they are “open”. Every receiver in the league can find plays they were “open”. It’s the frequency and the question of were they truly open in the context of the play.
He got 6 targets last week and caught 1.

I’m not necessarily down on him but a WR starting and producing <2 catches and <15 yards simply isn’t a guy going great and it’s all the QBs fault.
Polk drew Two Flags on the Defense you heard it here First: Polk is going to be very good with a QB better than Brissett.
 
Our WR's are suffering from abysmal OL and QB Play look at Juju putting up 130 yards last night in KC I didn't think he had it in him. From Mac Jones to Brissett now back to Mahomes Good QB Play does matter.
Brissett has completed 79 passes for 696 yards. Polk has 9/74

Brissett certainly can be an excuse for not putting up huge numbers but he can’t because for barely registering anything. In THIS team, the guy you say is playing great can only get about 10% of the passing game?
 
Brissett has completed 79 passes for 696 yards. Polk has 9/74

Brissett certainly can be an excuse for not putting up huge numbers but he can’t because for barely registering anything. In THIS team, the guy you say is playing great can only get about 10% of the passing game?
I said the OL and Brissett those Two parts have an impact on your Receivers for Good or Bad it's been the latter for us.
 
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Btw juju whom we cut just posted 130+ yards and 2 TD in MNF.

We are great purveyors of talent.
???

Juju wouldn't have those stats for us this year with Brissett.

We didn't want juju long-term.
 
Brissett has completed 79 passes for 696 yards. Polk has 9/74

Brissett certainly can be an excuse for not putting up huge numbers but he can’t because for barely registering anything. In THIS team, the guy you say is playing great can only get about 10% of the passing game?
Isn't that Ranked Dead Last among Starting QB's??
 
???

Juju wouldn't have those stats for us this year with Brissett.

We didn't want juju long-term.
Who the eff is "we?"

'You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.'
 
=================
SOME THOUGHTS
1) THORNTON had an experience and a speed advantage. With Bourne out, he had an opportunity to show what he had. He worked hard all off-season to get to the point of being part of the future. He had failed to distinguish himself, pure and simple.

2) OSBORN has done as asked. He is a backup (a #3 or #4) in a guaranteed show-me contract. If he does great, he may be re-signed in 2025. I would note that he continues to get lots of reps, so the team seems to have faith in him.

3) IMO, DOUGLAS hasn't done as well as expected. But he is a talent and is part of the future, even if only as a slot WR. Of course, he will be given the opportunity to be much more.

4) POLK had been the surprising rookie star, a fine pick.

5) BOURNE is signed to a long-term contract and is likely part of the future unless he traded as part of deal for a top WR. BTW, Bourne's contract is all about incentives. He is guaranteed nothing past this year's $5.5M.

6) BOUTTE has been on the bubble, and like Thornton was given a chance when Bourne was put on PUP. He had some maturity issues. However, he has done OK with the reps that he has had. He has shown enough to continue to develop and take to 2025 camp.

7) BAKER has been a disappointment. If he weren't a highly drafted player with a high ceiling, he would be being waived in the next week. As it is, I don't expect him to get many reps this year. He is a hope for the future. He should learn a lot this year and compete in camp next year.
Here is my take after watching them all pre-season and every game this year on tape.
Thornton: Can't get off the line, just has no quickness, has no moves, if Devante Adams is the poster child for great releases Thornton is the opposite. He does have some ability to separate late in routes, but it is the NFL even on teams not the Patriots you don't have 4 seconds to wait. I don't see where he's ever going to be a starting NFL receiver. He needs Tyreek Hill treatment, motion and moving at the snap, but they never do this. Also think his hands are not great. Basically he kind of stinks.
Osborn: To me he also kind of stinks. Maybe a #3 receiver in the NFL. Does nothing well, not bad hands, never separates, ok blocker, Meh, Meh, Meh.
Douglas: DD has gotten better as the year goes on, he lacks the Edelman ridiculous ability to cut and go the other way. He's better than Myers but he's at best, good, not great. Has been open quite a bit more as the season has gone on. Thought he was rather weak the first game or 2. Jacoby likes to throw to him because he runs a ton inside and runs his outs to the sideline short. Jacoby likes middle, and short to the outside.
Polk: Probably suffers more from Jacoby playing vs Maye than any other receiver. Many of his plays are deeper in cuts or outside plays, also plays on the left side a bit where Jacoby won't ever throw accurately or often past 5 yards. He's open enough for a #2 receiver. He's currently not a #1 but he also has not has many opportunities to showcase his college ability to make tough tight window catches and jump balls. Tee Higgins is not a great separator but at the point of the catch is phenomenal. Polk needs to get more experience in route running, I wish he'd have more ability for option routes. So many times, he could go one way and get open and the route calls for a different direction. I think he could be a top zone breaking wide receiver but its against man to man he has to show he can win at the point of attack or show the ability to make option routes and not run into the leverage the cb has. Probably not allowed by AVP at this time. I think he's stuck with lower stats as long as the pass rush is getting to the QB and also as long as it is Jacoby.
Bourne: I have no idea if he's the same solid receiver he was before the injury. Patriots have an out on his contract after this year, would be a 2.8 million cap hit in dead money vs almost 8 million. IT is unlikely he gets the 800 yards to make 2.5m of his 2025 salary guaranteed. It's a wait and see with Bourne, veteran leadership, well-liked, has had NFL success, everything is there for him to stick around but until we see how he runs and cuts and separates post injury its really a mystery whether he's on the team past this year. Looks big on tape, got smoked on a run block early in the game. He looked quick and fast in the few reps he had. I noticed on one of the red zone throws Jacoby was almost sacked and got the ball to the outlet, Bourne was open for a TD if he had time. Next play was wide open over middle, Jacoby threw a swing pass for no gain instead. I'm hopeful, he needs to play more because a big target, veteran, if he is back, he's a huge asset.

Boutte: I went and just re-watched every play of his. What he does not have is the speed to run by DB's. He has shown good hands, good releases, good route running. All in limited reps, though many more in the Miami game obviously. I like much of what I see. Not sure if he can reach being a good #2 receiver due to the top end speed issue but he makes up for it in many ways so there is hope. Willing blocker, plays to the whistle every play, is really good at looking for openings on scrambles. I think he is better suited to play with Maye than Jacoby. Does not turn 23 until next year, might be coming into his own, need to let him play and develop.

Baker: Not good that he can't get on the field, between the drops in the pre-season and the "attitude" and whatever they see in practice. He has something the other receivers don't in terms of ability to beat 1 on 1 coverage, just not sure he'll catch it after that. Would love to see him out there and see if the talent can show up and overcome the intangibles. I think he's going to see limited action this year with Kendrick back. He intrigues me, just need to see him play.

So:
Douglas, Polk, Bourne and Boutte, probably in that order are your top 4 receivers. Not even a question. If they can find a more legitimate #1 for next year those guys would fill in nicely behind them. Otherwise, They need development from the younger guys.
KJ and TT should be bye-bye via trade or off-season not resigning. Baker is the developmental receiver. Pretty straightforward and obvious based on the tape. They have 4 younger guys with some promise, so not all bad on the wr front. Hopefully they develop.
 
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I said the OL and Brissett those Two parts have an impact on your Receivers for Good or Bad it's been the latter for us.
Sure, but not enough that a good WR playing well gets <2/<15
 
Here is my take after watching them all pre-season and every game this year on tape.
Thornton: Can't get off the line, just has no quickness, has no moves, if Devante Adams is the poster child for great releases Thornton is the opposite. He does have some ability to separate late in routes, but it is the NFL even on teams not the Patriots you don't have 4 seconds to wait. I don't see where he's ever going to be a starting NFL receiver. He needs Tyreek Hill treatment, motion and moving at the snap, but they never do this. Also think his hands are not great. Basically he kind of stinks.
Osborn: To me he also kind of stinks. Maybe a #3 receiver in the NFL. Does nothing well, not bad hands, never separates, ok blocker, Meh, Meh, Meh.
Douglas: DD has gotten better as the year goes on, he lacks the Edelman ridiculous ability to cut and go the other way. He's better than Myers but he's at best, good, not great. Has been open quite a bit more as the season has gone on. Thought he was rather weak the first game or 2. Jacoby likes to throw to him because he runs a ton inside and runs his outs to the sideline short. Jacoby likes middle, and short to the outside.
Polk: Probably suffers more from Jacoby playing vs Maye than any other receiver. Many of his plays are deeper in cuts or outside plays, also plays on the left side a bit where Jacoby won't ever throw accurately or often past 5 yards. He's open enough for a #2 receiver. He's currently not a #1 but he also has not has many opportunities to showcase his college ability to make tough tight window catches and jump balls. Tee Higgins is not a great separator but at the point of the catch is phenomenal. Polk needs to get more experience in route running, I wish he'd have more ability for option routes. So many times, he could go one way and get open and the route calls for a different direction. I think he could be a top zone breaking wide receiver but its against man to man he has to show he can win at the point of attack or show the ability to make option routes and not run into the leverage the cb has. Probably not allowed by AVP at this time. I think he's stuck with lower stats as long as the pass rush is getting to the QB and also as long as it is Jacoby.
Bourne: I have no idea if he's the same solid receiver he was before the injury. Patriots have an out on his contract after this year, would be a 2.8 million cap hit in dead money vs almost 8 million. IT is unlikely he gets the 800 yards to make 2.5m of his 2025 salary guaranteed. It's a wait and see with Bourne, veteran leadership, well-liked, has had NFL success, everything is there for him to stick around but until we see how he runs and cuts and separates post injury its really a mystery whether he's on the team past this year. Looks big on tape, got smoked on a run block early in the game. He looked quick and fast in the few reps he had. I noticed on one of the red zone throws Jacoby was almost sacked and got the ball to the outlet, Bourne was open for a TD if he had time. Next play was wide open over middle, Jacoby threw a swing pass for no gain instead. I'm hopeful, he needs to play more because a big target, veteran, if he is back, he's a huge asset.

Boutte: I went and just re-watched every play of his. What he does not have is the speed to run by DB's. He has shown good hands, good releases, good route running. All in limited reps, though many more in the Miami game obviously. I like much of what I see. Not sure if he can reach being a good #2 receiver due to the top end speed issue but he makes up for it in many ways so there is hope. Willing blocker, plays to the whistle every play, is really good at looking for openings on scrambles. I think he is better suited to play with Maye than Jacoby. Does not turn 23 until next year, might be coming into his own, need to let him play and develop.

Baker: Not good that he can't get on the field, between the drops in the pre-season and the "attitude" and whatever they see in practice. He has something the other receivers don't in terms of ability to beat 1 on 1 coverage, just not sure he'll catch it after that. Would love to see him out there and see if the talent can show up and overcome the intangibles. I think he's going to see limited action this year with Kendrick back. He intrigues me, just need to see him play.

So:
Douglas, Polk, Bourne and Boutte, probably in that order are your top 4 receivers. Not even a question. If they can find a more legitimate #1 for next year those guys would fill in nicely behind them. Otherwise, They need development from the younger guys.
KJ and TT should be bye-bye via trade or off-season not resigning. Baker is the developmental receiver. Pretty straightforward and obvious based on the tape. They have 4 younger guys with some promise, so not all bad on the wr front. Hopefully they develop.
So, Bourne and the 4 kids with a top WR to come in the off-season; seem right, and right on track for Rebuilding Year 1.
 
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Probably but isn’t <2/<15 dead last among starting WRs.
Marvin Harrison had 2 for 36, not much better. He is the #1 receiver for them and expected to be one of the best. Also has a guy that can actually throw to the outside.
Kyler Murray career averages 237 yds a game in his career, Jacoby career 134 per game. You can almost double Polk's stats with the difference between the 2 QB's so basically Polk is Marvin Harrison!
I believe Polk had 2 penalties made against him, those resulted in first downs.
 
Here is my take after watching them all pre-season and every game this year on tape.
Thornton: Can't get off the line, just has no quickness, has no moves, if Devante Adams is the poster child for great releases Thornton is the opposite. He does have some ability to separate late in routes, but it is the NFL even on teams not the Patriots you don't have 4 seconds to wait. I don't see where he's ever going to be a starting NFL receiver. He needs Tyreek Hill treatment, motion and moving at the snap, but they never do this. Also think his hands are not great. Basically he kind of stinks.
Osborn: To me he also kind of stinks. Maybe a #3 receiver in the NFL. Does nothing well, not bad hands, never separates, ok blocker, Meh, Meh, Meh.
Douglas: DD has gotten better as the year goes on, he lacks the Edelman ridiculous ability to cut and go the other way. He's better than Myers but he's at best, good, not great. Has been open quite a bit more as the season has gone on. Thought he was rather weak the first game or 2. Jacoby likes to throw to him because he runs a ton inside and runs his outs to the sideline short. Jacoby likes middle, and short to the outside.
Polk: Probably suffers more from Jacoby playing vs Maye than any other receiver. Many of his plays are deeper in cuts or outside plays, also plays on the left side a bit where Jacoby won't ever throw accurately or often past 5 yards. He's open enough for a #2 receiver. He's currently not a #1 but he also has not has many opportunities to showcase his college ability to make tough tight window catches and jump balls. Tee Higgins is not a great separator but at the point of the catch is phenomenal. Polk needs to get more experience in route running, I wish he'd have more ability for option routes. So many times, he could go one way and get open and the route calls for a different direction. I think he could be a top zone breaking wide receiver but its against man to man he has to show he can win at the point of attack or show the ability to make option routes and not run into the leverage the cb has. Probably not allowed by AVP at this time. I think he's stuck with lower stats as long as the pass rush is getting to the QB and also as long as it is Jacoby.
Bourne: I have no idea if he's the same solid receiver he was before the injury. Patriots have an out on his contract after this year, would be a 2.8 million cap hit in dead money vs almost 8 million. IT is unlikely he gets the 800 yards to make 2.5m of his 2025 salary guaranteed. It's a wait and see with Bourne, veteran leadership, well-liked, has had NFL success, everything is there for him to stick around but until we see how he runs and cuts and separates post injury its really a mystery whether he's on the team past this year. Looks big on tape, got smoked on a run block early in the game. He looked quick and fast in the few reps he had. I noticed on one of the red zone throws Jacoby was almost sacked and got the ball to the outlet, Bourne was open for a TD if he had time. Next play was wide open over middle, Jacoby threw a swing pass for no gain instead. I'm hopeful, he needs to play more because a big target, veteran, if he is back, he's a huge asset.

Boutte: I went and just re-watched every play of his. What he does not have is the speed to run by DB's. He has shown good hands, good releases, good route running. All in limited reps, though many more in the Miami game obviously. I like much of what I see. Not sure if he can reach being a good #2 receiver due to the top end speed issue but he makes up for it in many ways so there is hope. Willing blocker, plays to the whistle every play, is really good at looking for openings on scrambles. I think he is better suited to play with Maye than Jacoby. Does not turn 23 until next year, might be coming into his own, need to let him play and develop.

Baker: Not good that he can't get on the field, between the drops in the pre-season and the "attitude" and whatever they see in practice. He has something the other receivers don't in terms of ability to beat 1 on 1 coverage, just not sure he'll catch it after that. Would love to see him out there and see if the talent can show up and overcome the intangibles. I think he's going to see limited action this year with Kendrick back. He intrigues me, just need to see him play.

So:
Douglas, Polk, Bourne and Boutte, probably in that order are your top 4 receivers. Not even a question. If they can find a more legitimate #1 for next year those guys would fill in nicely behind them. Otherwise, They need development from the younger guys.
KJ and TT should be bye-bye via trade or off-season not resigning. Baker is the developmental receiver. Pretty straightforward and obvious based on the tape. They have 4 younger guys with some promise, so not all bad on the wr front. Hopefully they develop.
Since Baker isn't near ready for prime time, I suggest that we are likely to keep Osborn as injury insurance since there is no cost. Of course, I would expect him to be inactive along with Baker.
 
Marvin Harrison had 2 for 36, not much better. He is the #1 receiver for them and expected to be one of the best. Also has a guy that can actually throw to the outside.
Kyler Murray career averages 237 yds a game in his career, Jacoby career 134 per game. You can almost double Polk's stats with the difference between the 2 QB's so basically Polk is Marvin Harrison!
I believe Polk had 2 penalties made against him, those resulted in first downs.
Harrison had 17/279/4 tds.
That’s almost twice as many receptions, almost 4 times as many years and 4 times as many TDs.
So double Polks stats and it’s 279 go 148.

Polk is averaging less than 15 receiving yards a game.
Harrison is on pace for almost 1000.

You’ve proven the opposite of your point.

Are we really saying that not catching passes and drawing penalties is the measure of a good Wr? Come on.
 
Btw juju whom we cut just posted 130+ yards and 2 TD in MNF.

We are great purveyors of talent.
This ^

We desperately needed to draft a WR in the second round and throw the bag at Calvin Ridley and Aiyuk... but we didn't need an offensive tackle.

But we're great at evaluating talent... as long as that talent was already on this roster.
 
Harrison had 17/279/4 tds.
That’s almost twice as many receptions, almost 4 times as many years and 4 times as many TDs.
So double Polks stats and it’s 279 go 148.

Polk is averaging less than 15 receiving yards a game.
Harrison is on pace for almost 1000.

You’ve proven the opposite of your point.

Are we really saying that not catching passes and drawing penalties is the measure of a good Wr? Come on.
No, I'm saying you can't judge Polk based on stats playing in this offense with Brissett. You can't judge any outside receiver in this offense because the QB is 100% incapable of throwing to his left past 10 yards. How many other Qb's can't do that?
You also have less time to throw than any other team, thus outside receivers are less likely to have time to get the ball.
On tape he is a solid #2 receiver as a rookie. Stats are not telling you much of the story on the receivers in this offense, they are completely meaningless to judging the receivers.
 
No, I'm saying you can't judge Polk based on stats playing in this offense with Brissett. You can't judge any outside receiver in this offense because the QB is 100% incapable of throwing to his left past 10 yards. How many other Qb's can't do that?
You also have less time to throw than any other team, thus outside receivers are less likely to have time to get the ball.
On tape he is a solid #2 receiver as a rookie. Stats are not telling you much of the story on the receivers in this offense, they are completely meaningless to judging the receivers.
I don’t buy that. I would agree if his production was average and held back by the QB but his production is almost non existent. He has to be accountable at some level.

This is a qb who started 11 games a couple years ago with Amari Cooper catching 1180 yards and Donovan freaking Peoples-Jones catching 838 running the exact same system.
 
Kendrick Bourne, KJ Osborn, Jalynn Polk, Javon Baker, Kayshon Boutte...

This front office has cornered the market on 4.5 forty possession WR's, they excel at finding these totally redundant players.
 
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