The Ron Brace disaster

[jsull87]

I'm as disappointed with brace as anyone but... i think jumping to conclusions about someone when they haven't even seen the practice field is a bit much. To put it in perspective let's say gronk twisted his ankle in a freak accident last year and went on IR... that doesn't make him a bust (as we obviously know) it just means he got injured.

I think the people on this board confuse the two sometimes. Brace was actually playing quite well last year before his injury.

 

[cstjohn17]

Sometimes we forget draft picks are 50/50 at best, even 2nd rounders. They hit a home run with Vollmer, a double with Chung and infield single with Butler and a hit batsman with Brace. Pretty good batting average.

Brace may not be done, with the age across the defensive line why not put him on PUP and see where things are from weeks 6-10. High class problem.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I'm as disappointed with brace as anyone but... i think jumping to conclusions about someone when they haven't even seen the practice field is a bit much. To put it in perspective let's say gronk twisted his ankle in a freak accident last year and went on IR... that doesn't make him a bust (as we obviously know) it just means he got injured.

I think the people on this board confuse the two sometimes. Brace was actually playing quite well last year before his injury.

So how much time do we need to give him? How long before we seperate injury from bust and call one the right description?

 

[fester]

Brace and Butler are both Hindenburg level disasters. "Oh the humanity!", as they crash and burn. It is sickening as to what could have been.

Don't see Brace making the team, just isn't mobile enough for an attacking 4-3. No matter what anyone says. Goal line stand DT maybe.

No Gholston or Maybin are Hindenburg level fiascos, while JaMarcus Russell is a Titanic opportuntiy and financial cost. 2 second rounders who have turned into a valuable rotational player (Brace) and a bubble guy is not ideal, but not a disaester when the historical hit rate in the second round is about 50% of picks are starters by Year 4 (which is what the Patriots got out of that draft).

 

[captain stone]

So how much time do we need to give him? How long before we seperate injury from bust and call one the right description?

By this time next year, I think we'll all have a real good idea where this goes.

 

[patchick]

Hey, I just noticed something kind of amazing. You know how part of the frustration with the Ron Brace pick was that EVERYBODY wanted the Pats to take an OLB in that spot?

Well, the OLB/DE prospects drafted after him were Everette Brown, Clint Sintim, Connor Barwin, David Veikune, Paul Kruger, Cody Brown. Believe it or not, Brace has started more NFL games than those half dozen players COMBINED!

 

[captain stone]

I have a bad feeling that whatever the number of games Brace has started
will not be increasing any time soon...if ever.

Barwin should've been the pick then, and nothing that's happened over the last 2 years
has caused me to change my mind.

 

[Don Kipines]

I'm kind of amazed at the Ron Brace hate. This guy isn't like Darius Butler, who's played a lot and not ever really been effective -- Butler's best moment in the NFL came when a wideout dropped a game-saving pass against him (in Butler's rookie year, the Ravens game). Brace on the other hand was a good player last year who improved the more he played. His conditioning, his power, his hands, they were all better by mid-year.

This is a big, strong kid who could be very useful in a 4-3 defense. I think he was miscast in a 3-4 but he has real potential as a 4-3 under DT.

 

[patchick]

Barwin should've been the pick then, and nothing that's happened over the last 2 years
has caused me to change my mind.

No argument there, I was a Barwin diehard. I just went back to look at that draft because Everette Brown was cut, and I was amazed to see how few of the vaunted class of OLB prospects have made any impact at all. It's a devilish position to predict.

For all that everybody now likes to shout "we could have had Clay Matthews!!", back at the time opinion was hugely divided among Matthews, Barwin, English, Maybin, Ayers, Sintim, Brown, etc. They were all drafted in the top 2 rounds, and have ANY of them except Matthews panned out?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

No argument there, I was a Barwin diehard. I just went back to look at that draft because Everette Brown was cut, and I was amazed to see how few of the vaunted class of OLB prospects have made any impact at all. It's a devilish position to predict.

For all that everybody now likes to shout "we could have had Clay Matthews!!", back at the time opinion was hugely divided among Matthews, Barwin, English, Maybin, Ayers, Sintim, Brown, etc. They were all drafted in the top 2 rounds, and have ANY of them except Matthews panned out?

To be fair to the Barwinians, he did have a season-ending injury last year.

 

[patchick]

To be fair to the Barwinians, he did have a season-ending injury last year.

Yep, he and Sintim have had lousy injury luck. There's hope in Barwinland yet! But that position really is an incredible crapshoot. Even among DE/OLBs taken in the top half of round one, the hit rate recently has been abysmal:

2007: Gaines Adams, Jamaal Anderson
2008: Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, Derrick Harvey
2009: Aaron Maybin, Brian Orakpo, Larry English

Ugh.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Yep, he and Sintim have had lousy injury luck. There's hope in Barwinland yet! But that position really is an incredible crapshoot. Even among DE/OLBs taken in the top half of round one, the hit rate recently has been abysmal:

2007: Gaines Adams, Jamaal Anderson
2008: Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, Derrick Harvey
2009: Aaron Maybin, Brian Orakpo, Larry English

Ugh.

Brian Orakpo is a beast. Wish we had a shot at him.

 

[patchick]

Brian Orakpo is a beast. Wish we had a shot at him.

Yep, he's a good one. But that's 1 beast out of 8 top-16 picks!

 

[fester]

Hey, I just noticed something kind of amazing. You know how part of the frustration with the Ron Brace pick was that EVERYBODY wanted the Pats to take an OLB in that spot?

Well, the OLB/DE prospects drafted after him were Everette Brown, Clint Sintim, Connor Barwin, David Veikune, Paul Kruger, Cody Brown. Believe it or not, Brace has started more NFL games than those half dozen players COMBINED!

Bad Patchick, bad, introducing facts, figures and logic when people want to dry-hump their binkies.

 

[cstjohn17]

Brace may not be done, with the age across the defensive line why not put him on PUP and see where things are from weeks 6-10. High class problem.

Still feel this way, the D line is old / injury prone in a lot of areas. Good to have the additional depth.

 

[patsfan55]

Yep, he's a good one. But that's 1 beast out of 8 top-16 picks!

Chris Long was lookin quite good last year as well

 

[captain stone]

No argument there, I was a Barwin diehard. I just went back to look at that draft because Everette Brown was cut, and I was amazed to see how few of the vaunted class of OLB prospects have made any impact at all. It's a devilish position to predict.

For all that everybody now likes to shout "we could have had Clay Matthews!!", back at the time opinion was hugely divided among Matthews, Barwin, English, Maybin, Ayers, Sintim, Brown, etc. They were all drafted in the top 2 rounds, and have ANY of them except Matthews panned out?

I've never been one of the "We could've had Clay Matthews" crowd, because I felt that he was more of a blown-up (artificially?) Strong Safety who would become more of a coverage OLB than a pass-rushing OLB. I don't blame Bill for bypassing him, at all.

Edit: I too was very surprised that Everette Brown was released; he seemed to have actually produced a little bit for Carolina. I wonder if anyone has signed him yet. During the '09 draft, I figured that he was too small as a 3-4 OLB for the NEP, but now that most of our 3-4 OLBs are our 4-3 DEs, perhaps he could have a place here as a situational 4-3 OLB.

 

[patsfan-1982]

when you look back on it now Butler and Tate were the disaster thats what the pats got back from the packers for the Trade down, it's not the fact that Matthews is a all pro pass rusher that hurts so much cause im not sure he would have the same impact with the pats but the fact that both Tate and Butler are gone after only 2 years kinda sucks

 

[NinjaZX6R]

when you look back on it now Butler and Tate were the disaster thats what the pats got back from the packers for the Trade down, it's not the fact that Matthews is a all pro pass rusher that hurts so much cause im not sure he would have the same impact with the pats but the fact that both Tate and Butler are gone after only 2 years kinda sucks

Just give it a freaking rest about the Clay Matthews talk plzzz.

A) He was graded as a 3rd round talent whose's skills was only as a pass rusher.
B) There were rumors of HgH/steroids use by USC players AT USC. Seeing how his best friend was busted a year later for steroids, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually used performance enhancing drugs during his junior and senior year at College at USC.
C) Even at USC during his senior year, he was a semi part time starter.
D) Yesterday, I watched the recent SB between the Packers and Steelers on the NFL network. I decided to pay attention to Clay Matthews when the Packers were on Defense. I saw him getting owned by the Steelers 2nd TE- Matt Spath (or something like that..All I know is that he went to Uni of Minnesota). The Steelers, for the most part, were running to the right side...towards Clay Matthews. They ran for around 76 yards against him. He would get washed up in blocks to the insides, sometimes got pancaked by their 2nd TE and would, for the most part, loose outside contain on a run play. Oh, the Packers run D had better success when the Steelers ran to their left against the Packers 34OLB-Frank Zambo.
Remember the NFL sounds of him in the SB saying " Hey they (steelers) are looking at me. I have a feeling that they are running at me"
Well, Teams always take advantage of the other opposing team's weakness. Yes Clay is a great pass rusher but the Steelers knew he was a bad run defender. Frank Zambo, the other 34OLB, was an UDFA Rookie. You tell me, if a team had an option to run the ball, who would it be against-an UDFA rookie or a 1st round 2nd year player??

Yet the Steelers ran at Clay. That fumble wasn't caused by Clay. It was Ryan Pickett. He pushed the pocket back, and hit the ball carrier and the ball was almost out. All Clay did was, by chance, knock the ball out. Yet he got all the damn credit.

So, let's review.
-Clay was rated as a 3rd round talent who jumped up during the Senior Bowl.
-He played among (USC played a 34 Leo) Brian Cushing, rated as a 1st round pick, Malaguga (sp?) rated as a mid to late 1st round to early 2nd rounder, and Kaluka Maiava, rated in the mid to late round (who went in the 4th round early). Didn't know if he was a product of the system, a great player who was a semi starter or a product of great plays by his front 7.
-There were talks about performance enhancing abuses among the USC players.
-Clay was a semi starter during his last year in College.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Yep, he and Sintim have had lousy injury luck. There's hope in Barwinland yet! But that position really is an incredible crapshoot. Even among DE/OLBs taken in the top half of round one, the hit rate recently has been abysmal:

2007: Gaines Adams, Jamaal Anderson
2008: Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, Derrick Harvey
2009: Aaron Maybin, Brian Orakpo, Larry English

Ugh.

You could very easily make a case that the the drafting of Anderson, Gholston, Harvey,Maybin and English were doomed to failure based on their tape. They were all drafted as based on perceived athleticism and college production #'s.

However we all also know that until this year, BB has always lets the tape rule vs. "upside" when grading draftees. I say that because Solder was a pure projection selection based on elite athleticism.

You could say the only 1st rounder we passed on in the last five years that that actually over delivered on athleticism vs. the tape is Clay Mathews. Not saying Mathews is a finished product yet,because he struggles to set a hard edge on running plays and is below average in coverage.

But Mathews elite athleticism causes DC's to game plan for him, and he beats the game plan. We desperately need a player that can do that on the edge of our defense.