PatsFans.com - Mobile
PatsFans.com
Search
2020 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: N/A

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:
Status
Not open for further replies.

condon84

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
the point of many here and mine, Bill has build good teams but it is Brady that made Bill look like a genius. It is Brady that covered for the mistakes Bill did over the years. It is Brady that allowed Bill to get rid of guys one year early instead of one year to late.

I think in the end Brady decided to leave one year early.

I even think that the culture was more Brady than Bill. This year I don’t recognize these Patriots. They make mistakes than an ordinary Bill coached team doesn’t make. While when I watched Tampa, game after game the team looks more and more like the Patriots under Brady.

Brady's the GOAT QB but he wouldn't have won as much as he's had if he wasn't with Bill and vice versa.
 

GreenCow

Practice Squad Player
I'll make this short and sweet. Let's see BB win without Tom Brady. So far, he's not off to a good start and this could be the 2nd year out of 3 BB would have a losing season without TB. And in 18 of those games, he had a newly signed $100M QB going 5-13.

BB will now feel the pain/stress/pressure that 31 other teams have to go through on when you don't have the GOAT at QB.
This.

Belichick’s record without Brady is something like 50-65 or something like that.
 

scott99

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Brady's the GOAT QB but he wouldn't have won as much as he's had if he wasn't with Bill and vice versa.
But imagine if Belichick had drafted weapons for Brady the last 3 or 4 seasons. They’d still be on cheap contracts, and Brady might have more SB wins as a Patriot on his resume.

Not saying Belichick didn’t try, he did go out and get Josh Gordon and Antonio Brown, but unfortunately, they predictably didn’t work out, and there was no plan B due to bad drafting.
 

Doctor DDS

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Vince Lombardi never made the playoffs once without Bart Starr and when he left for the Redskins did not even make the playoffs.

Bill Walsh went 2-14 and 6-10 with the 49ers before Montana became full time starter in 1981.

Phil Jackson never won a championship unless he had Jordan Shaq or Kobe on his team.

Red Auerbach never won anything until some player named Bill Russell arrived.

Almost as if great coaches need great players to have legendary success.

It is incredibly unlikely that BB will be able to turn the Pats back into a dynasty and probably unlikely he will win another championship as they are extremely hard to get. ( I hope I am wrong) If he can build this team back into serious contention without years of losing he will have accomplished something few have ever done.

Shula went final 20+ years w/o winning a championship despite having an All time QB.
Bill Parcells coached 11 years after the Giants and never won again.
Jimmy Johnson could not match his Cowboys success with the Dolphins winning 2 playoff games in 4 seasons.
Chuck Noll went 12 seasons after his last championship and was 2 games over .500 with 2 playoff wins.
 

cmasspatsfan

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Vince Lombardi never made the playoffs once without Bart Starr and when he left for the Redskins did not even make the playoffs.

Bill Walsh went 2-14 and 6-10 with the 49ers before Montana became full time starter in 1981.

Phil Jackson never won a championship unless he had Jordan Shaq or Kobe on his team.

Red Auerbach never won anything until some player named Bill Russell arrived.

Almost as if great coaches need great players to have legendary success.

It is incredibly unlikely that BB will be able to turn the Pats back into a dynasty and probably unlikely he will win another championship as they are extremely hard to get. ( I hope I am wrong) If he can build this team back into serious contention without years of losing he will have accomplished something few have ever done.

Shula went final 20+ years w/o winning a championship despite having an All time QB.
Bill Parcells coached 11 years after the Giants and never won again.
Jimmy Johnson could not match his Cowboys success with the Dolphins winning 2 playoff games in 4 seasons.
Chuck Noll went 12 seasons after his last championship and was 2 games over .500 with 2 playoff wins.
Its obvious a great coach needs a great player/players for the team to be great. Some average coaches had great players and didn't win ****, some great coaches had average players and didn't win ****. You need both to be successful. I hate that Brady BB argument, its just talk radio fodder.
 

jmt57

Moderator
Staff member
If you take into consideration BBS drafting from 2014-2020...any other GM would have been FIRED

So if you were an NFL owner, you would find a reason to fire your GM after three Super Bowl victories and four conference championships in a seven year span?

That's like making Dan Snyder having the patience of the Rooneys.
 

Tony2046

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
His overall body of work as a GM is very good. If you split his GM career in thirds the first two are HOF worthy. The last third would have gotten any other GM fired.

One quality skill position player in the last 10 drafts. Two guards are the only pro bowl caliber players drafted recently. Then some horrendous busts thrown in.

That's simply not true.
That’s not true. Belichick sent his QB coach to scout QBs, he liked Brady and BB agreed.

BB also carried TB as a fourth QB essentially a wasted roster spot.
 

Joker

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I've had it! Green sow is right...I'm switching to the Bills from hereon out....



Oh...wait....I think I made a mistake. I did...I DID make a mistake...coulda been the biggest mistake of the rest of my life...whew, that was close! GO PATS!
 

FCB02062

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
The most successful GM in history drafted JoeJuan Williams with the 45th pick in the second round in 2019. This player has had a higher percentage of special teams snap in his first two seasons. Is it really worth it to spend a second pick on guys who play mainly on special teams? This second round pick has made literally no impact on any game. He has 2 passes defensed in 15 career games to go along with zero interceptions, zero sacks, zero forced fumbles, zero fumble recoveries. He adds nothing to this team. Bill the GM really seems all too comfortable drafting guys and getting ZERO to very little contribution from high draft picks. Couple Williams' inability to contribute to the team with Harry's obvious lack of production and sprinkle in Winovich falling off the face of the planet, the 2019 draft has bust written all over it. Harris has shown some life, but the best player of the 2019 draft has been the punter. This is pathetic and this is why the team is where it is. They have very little positive down there in Orchids of Asia Foxboro Annex....
 

NG Pats Fan

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
The most successful GM in history drafted JoeJuan Williams with the 45th pick in the second round in 2019. This player has had a higher percentage of special teams snap in his first two seasons. Is it really worth it to spend a second pick on guys who play mainly on special teams? This second round pick has made literally no impact on any game. He has 2 passes defensed in 15 career games to go along with zero interceptions, zero sacks, zero forced fumbles, zero fumble recoveries. He adds nothing to this team. Bill the GM really seems all too comfortable drafting guys and getting ZERO to very little contribution from high draft picks. Couple Williams' inability to contribute to the team with Harry's obvious lack of production and sprinkle in Winovich falling off the face of the planet, the 2019 draft has bust written all over it. Harris has shown some life, but the best player of the 2019 draft has been the punter. This is pathetic and this is why the team is where it is. They have very little positive down there in Orchids of Asia Foxboro Annex....

traded UP for Jojuan while Metcalf was still available. Metcalf posted a 12-162-2 line tonight against the 49ers
 

Tony2046

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Brady was 12-4 with a worse Pats team last year.

A better defense. Losing Hightower, Chung, Collins, KVN, etc. Has hurt as well.

And I'll agree that Brady would be better on this team but that would only mean another early playoff exit.

It turns out that the Cap isn't crap.
 

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
He is the best GM ever. Case closed. Longest tenure. Most wins. Most playoff appearances. Most division titles. Most conference championships. Most Super Bowls.

If people want to throw in Bobby Beathard, Polian, Finks, Young, etc fine as comparison but BB still has vastly superior results.
The only place I want to throw Polian is out a 10th floor window.
 

Lagaffe_07

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I think that now that Brady is gone we start to see cracks and imperfections in BB.

my feeling is that for 20 years of success Bill never really get much criticism for anything. When the team played bad it was always because of Brady. Now we can’t put the blame on Brady anymore and when we see the state of the roster, we start to see where Bill messed up. Now, it’s really the first time Bill receive criticism and what is happening he is already making excuses for the mistakes he had the last seven years.

if Brady was still here we are probably going 11-5 or even 12-4 with this team. And even with an early playoff exit I don’t think Bill would get an inch of criticism and Brady will get all the blame pretty much like last year.

Edit: my question is what happens if Bill has no winning season the next 3 years? Because there is really no evidence he can turn a team around without a great QB. He was not doing great with Bledsoe who was a pro bowl QB.
 

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
A better defense. Losing Hightower, Chung, Collins, KVN, etc. Has hurt as well.

And I'll agree that Brady would be better on this team but that would only mean another early playoff exit.

It turns out that the Cap isn't crap.
I was merely answering the question and I have no problem pulling for both Brady and Bill. With all that they gave us over the years that's a no brainer. I just wish that Brady could have finished his career as a Patriot and I would have lived with whatever record we had.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top