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It would’ve been similar to how we finished last season.
Thats how I feel. Folks were using Bradys performance last week as a stick to beat BB with but
1) he has world beating offence around him and
2) Our motley bunch put up a similar score against LV

We all know that preparation is key to BBs success. Patriots have been picking last for 20 years and we have stayed relevant and it hasn't always been down to high octane offence.
Football is offence defence and special teams. Its simplistic to suggest that 20 years of success can be down to one player in one part of the game.
 

203Pat

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
His overall body of work as a GM is very good. If you split his GM career in thirds the first two are HOF worthy. The last third would have gotten any other GM fired.

One quality skill position player in the last 10 drafts. Two guards are the only pro bowl caliber players drafted recently. Then some horrendous busts thrown in.
 

holyredeemer

In the Starting Line-Up
The Bucs were 2-5 last year at this time. It was always Brady who accounted for the winning.

That being said, I do think it is early to judge Bill. We need to see him pick his next QB and see if he can have success again.
Winston had 12 ints in that time period. My point stands. Everyone knew that the Bucs were one legit QB away from being competitive. I’m so happy we had Brady doing all the winning for us, and have no idea what we are going to do now. All of those stout defenses over the years, the incredible ST’s play, the wonderful coaching that got poached year after year after year. They had nothing to do with the success on the team, it was always Brady. I mean, come on. I’m not saying it was all Brady, I’m not saying it was all Belichick, all I’m asking for is some damn objectivity.

At the end of the day though, I’m really happy Bill has guys like you just waiting in the shadows to judge him when he finally picks his new qb.
 

NG Pats Fan

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If you take into consideration BBS drafting from 2014-2020...any other GM would have been FIRED
 

Boomer B

In the Starting Line-Up
You can’t look at things black or white.

Is Belichick the best coach of his generation? - yes
Is Belichick one of the best team builders ever? - yes
Did Belichick benefit immensely from having Brady? - yes
Has Belichick drafted poorly the last 7 years? - yes
Is the teams current lack of talent on Belichick? - yes
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
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11-5 with Cassel
3-1 with Brissett and Garoppolo
Probably better than 2-4 if the QB could throw a football.

We know that the 2001 team was able to win games despite them being 5-11 the year before, so let’s count up the actual record while generously removing the 200 season and five years in Cleveland.

0-2 in 2001
10-5 in 2008 (consistent in staying with starting QB)
3-1 in 2016
2-4 in 2020

15-12 record, which is pretty good without an elite QB and about expected with the Patriots minus Brady.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
We know that the 2001 team was able to win games despite them being 5-11 the year before, so let’s count up the actual record while generously removing the 200 season and five years in Cleveland.

0-2 in 2001
10-5 in 2008 (consistent in staying with starting QB)
3-1 in 2016
2-4 in 2020

15-12 record, which is pretty good without an elite QB and about expected with the Patriots minus Brady.
His record in Cleveland means less than squat to me but sure it’s fair to include 2000 and 2001. That means 20-25. Definitely not great. But I wonder how much of the 25 losses are really from coaching? And if Josh was coach would they have won 11 games in 08 with a QB that was playing himself off the roster in preseason? I lean toward no.
 
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Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
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The

His record in Cleveland means less than squat to me but sure it’s fair to include 2000 and 2001. That means 20-25. Definitely not great. But I wonder how much of the 25 losses are really from coaching? And if Josh was coach would they have won 11 games in 08 with a QB that was playing himself off the roster in preseason? I lean toward no.

I think at best Josh would coach any team to the level of their exact talent level, no more than that.

Maybe we can also start thinking about BB in terms of other possibilities. Maybe he isn’t significantly better than his peers at winning games with crappy or even middling QBs (unless he has a stacked team like 2008.). His coaching isn’t going to make up that large handicap at the game‘s most important QB, so all of the talk about that is quickly refuted until he actually does it. But again I wager that no coach can do that with any consistency, and I think an overwhelming amount of historical data backs that up. And if I have an “anti-Belichick“ or “pro-Brady“ agenda, it’s due to this line of thinking.

Maybe Bill is at his best when his teams are great and facing other great teams, which is a level playing field. We know that no other coach in NFL history has been as successful over so many years. Other coaches have seen some success with elite QBs but never at this level of sustained dominance.

No coach has done more with more than Belichick. That’s close to being a fact rather than an opinion. And since he’s also the personnel person, that statement is the ultimate compliment leaving no question marks or theoreticals.

A reasonable question to ask about Belichick’s coaching impact: could any coach have attained the same level of success with Brady? I don’t think so, based on everything I’ve seen, and that’s good enough for me when it comes to Belichick’s greatness. I’d point to the championships, gameplans, team penalty percentage and how far away he obliterated the second place guy despite that other coaches often had elite QBs as well (at least for some time.)

I also prefer that question as opposed to could Brady accomplish the same level of success with another coach? because we‘re comparing coaches to coaches, rather than some strange cross-breed thinking that mixes up who is supposed to do what.

I could ask, likewise, could any other quarterback have achieved the same level of success with the Patriots? and the answer is also no, absolutely not, as you have to consider Brady’s absurd winning percentage (so much higher than anyone else’s) and also how great he had to play in the in the grandest games and how tough those games were despite who his coach and teamates were. Like with Belichick, you look at the games where he played elite teams and the playing field was equal, the coaching and talent advantage mostly neutralized.
 
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TheRainMaker

Team Tom Supporter
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Probably better than 2-4 if the QB could throw a football.
And this is my point. Many teams have probably felt the same way over the years. My Coaches/GM's have lost their jobs because they couldn't find at least a competent QB. BB is getting his first dose of it.

Many people on this board thought it was going to be a simple plug and play when Brady left. Now, all of the sudden, the roster has many holes getting exposed.
 

Tottie

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
BB is very much in the conversation for best GM ever. GMs like the one in philly that beat us have a few great years but very few go at it for decades. Philly won a superbowl when literally every single thing they did went right. America loves aggressive calls and they all worked out, along with a some kind of gorilla touchdown review protocol they seemed implement only for the SB. Point is, the GM did a terrific job those few years, but for how long? Now it's cap hell. That's the new formula it seems and I don't actually disagree with it. Franchises like the Ravens and Steelers have done a pretty good job too and are on par with NE in terms of GM in the last 20 years.
 

PatsFanInVa

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I'll make this short and sweet. Let's see BB win without Tom Brady. So far, he's not off to a good start and this could be the 2nd year out of 3 BB would have a losing season without TB. And in 18 of those games, he had a newly signed $100M QB going 5-13.

BB will now feel the pain/stress/pressure that 31 other teams have to go through on when you don't have the GOAT at QB.
And I know you're pullin' for him. LOL. (Sad if you're not - he's what the Patriots have left. Brady doesn't live here anymore.) But yeah, we all get to see what happens when Brady/Belichick no longer have the other to save the day.

So far, the "Blow it up!" fans seem to be the ones that got the outcome of this season right. I'm not too broken up about essentially not going full tilt in the unmitigated COVID year. At some point, we'll have a vaccine and/or otherwise knock COVID down in deadliness to where it really is "like the flu." At that point, you won't have the COVID opt-out impact. It sort of lines up well with the other impacts the Pats are feeling, including the obvious Brady loss (and continued Gronk loss - he didn't retire, he just retired from us.) Then there's the cap.

I don't mind taking the hits in a consolidated way... what would suck would be if there is no BB magic, and it's all TFB magic. We shall see :D

Back to earth for now my brothers. May it just be another reason to hate on 2020.
 

robertweathers

Chairman & CEO of Team Bill
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BB is very much in the conversation for best GM ever. GMs like the one in philly that beat us have a few great years but very few go at it for decades. Philly won a superbowl when literally every single thing they did went right. America loves aggressive calls and they all worked out, along with a some kind of gorilla touchdown review protocol they seemed implement only for the SB. Point is, the GM did a terrific job those few years, but for how long? Now it's cap hell. That's the new formula it seems and I don't actually disagree with it. Franchises like the Ravens and Steelers have done a pretty good job too and are on par with NE in terms of GM in the last 20 years.
He is the best GM ever. Case closed. Longest tenure. Most wins. Most playoff appearances. Most division titles. Most conference championships. Most Super Bowls.

If people want to throw in Bobby Beathard, Polian, Finks, Young, etc fine as comparison but BB still has vastly superior results.
 

Tottie

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
He is the best GM ever. Case closed. Longest tenure. Most wins. Most playoff appearances. Most division titles. Most conference championships. Most Super Bowls.

If people want to throw in Bobby Beathard, Polian, Finks, Young, etc fine as comparison but BB still has vastly superior results.
Sorry but... Polian? hahah.
 

PATSYLICIOUS

Pro Bowl Player
Not sure about most successful (I am not necessarily disagreeing with the OP, just GM is a difficult position for me to judge) but definitely better than people here give him credit for. We have been pretty spoilt as fans and our expectations get a little out of hand. Yes, he has benefitted from having Brady but as good as Brady is you have to surround him with great teams to allow him to win you super bowls. Look at the Shula - Marino combo, both are not as good, but certainly up there with Coach BB and Brady. That combination never won a super bowl together, this is proof that the person putting together our teams the last 20 years is doing something right.
 

TomPatriot

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He is the best GM ever. Case closed. Longest tenure. Most wins. Most playoff appearances. Most division titles. Most conference championships. Most Super Bowls.

If people want to throw in Bobby Beathard, Polian, Finks, Young, etc fine as comparison but BB still has vastly superior results.
Ozzie. Of course, he worked for Bill. ;)
 
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