The mediots know that the Pats won a SB without Jones & Collins, right?

[Pats1989]

While we're not 0-4, I think we all agree that this development is completely shocking? So while I haven't jumped off the bandwagon I can at least see why there is plenty of reason for discussion.

After all, a team that potentially had the talent to go 16-0 is stumbling out of the gate. It's not just that they're playing 0.500 but that one side of the ball (obviously the defense) has looked like absolutely garbage in the process. One game? nothing to worry about........three out of four games? I'd say it's a problem worth discussing.

Agreed. Furthermore, we can't just say
" They've done it before". This is a new season. Past results doesn't guarantee future results. The D has never been this bad during the previous 2-2 starts ( 01, 03, 14). Richard Seymour, Harrison, Bruschi, Law, and Vrabel aren't walking through that door. A D with McCourtey, Butler, Gilmore, Hightower shouldn't be this bad.

 

[Jackson 2]

I've heard and seen Albert Breer sing this song (Collins and Jones should never have been jettisoned and they're badly missed) multiple times recently. He's one of those guys who's had a hardon for years with BB but cleverly disguises it lots of times. He's a frequent guest on Zolak's 98.5 show, Shaughnessy is on every Tuesday and Bertrand is Zolak's daily partner. My long-time frustration with BoZo is rooted in his ****y reaction to all 3 of those nitwits. He cowers when confronted by any of them, which happens all the time. He's a fake tough guy when it comes to defending the Pats. He pisses his pants daily with those guys from 10-2 then goes home, gets drunk and starts tweeting all sorts of phony BS, often about the Red Sox and Celtics. He's a first-class fraud. And I once liked him very much.

 

[mosi]

Pats rank 4th in the NFL in 4-man QB pressures according to PFF. QB pressures is not the real problem.

Honestly, watchin the games, do you believe that?

 

[brdmaverick]

Honestly, watchin the games, do you believe that?

I know the question isn't directed at me, but I can believe it.

The pressure is there, we just see Watson and Newton dancing around that 'pressure'.

 

[JMC00]

We won without them because we had the depth behind them. Now we don't, so their absence is missed. What's hard to understand about that? Oh right "BLARGH THE MEDIA AM I RIGHT GUYS?"

Clearly you missed the part where I said questioning letting guys like Long, Sheard and Ryan, guys that actually played in the SB, would be a much better talking point than mentioning a guy that didn't play 1 snap last year for the Pats and a guy that was shipped off mid-season.

Maybe next time read a post thoroughly.


Now I want to address this comment more

so their absence is missed

Explain to me for 2 guys that weren't on the team for that playoff run last year how their absence is missed and "depth" isn't the answer. Because Jones was traded the first day of free agency and Collins snaps went to a combination of Van Noy and Roberts who are still with the team.

The correct answer is their absence aren't missed because they weren't missed when they won the SB. Guys like Long and Ryan are bigger absences than those 2 which was the premise of my post.

 

[Jackson 2]

Long, Sheard and Ninko.

 

[ScottishPatriots]

The only one that you could have a legit beef with would be Sheard, Long wanted to leave Ninko retired and Jones/Collins is going too far back to be fair about criticism.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Pats rank 4th in the NFL in 4-man QB pressures according to PFF. QB pressures is not the real problem.

That stat is misleading since were doing a poor job of containing the 3 running qbs in the pocket we’ve faced to this point. Add to it the poor play of the secondary and were not seeing a low completion % from any of the opposing qbs

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

I know the question isn't directed at me, but I can believe it.

The pressure is there, we just see Watson and Newton dancing around that 'pressure'.

Dancing and scrambling for positive gains most of the time.

 

[Jackson 2]

The only one that you could have a legit beef with would be Sheard, Long wanted to leave Ninko retired and Jones/Collins is going too far back to be fair about criticism.

I didn't list them with a beef about anyone. I simply think they are all missed.

 

[Ring 6]

While we're not 0-4, I think we all agree that this development is completely shocking? So while I haven't jumped off the bandwagon I can at least see why there is plenty of reason for discussion.

It's a football season. There are ups and downs. Sitting at 2-2 and considering more than 2-2 because we thought something else would happen is pointless.

After all, a team that potentially had the talent to go 16-0 is stumbling out of the gate. It's not just that they're playing 0.500 but that one side of the ball (obviously the defense) has looked like absolutely garbage in the process. One game? nothing to worry about........three out of four games? I'd say it's a problem worth discussing.

2-2 with talent you think is worthy of 19-0 is better than 2-2 with 6-10 talent.

 

[Ivan]

Would love to have Jones at defensive end instead of Wise/Marsh if the money was the same but that is obviously not the case. Success has a price and the cap is unforgiving. The Gilmore contract and his play at the moment is a major concern but if he gets to where expected and the new pieces learn to play together everything should be fine.

Jones would have been gone by now as a free agent.

I'd give Gilmore at least the season to show his worth, at this point when Revis came in the consensus was the same.

 

[Ring 6]

The Falcons abused the Pats for almost 3 quarters until shrinkage kicked in. Sure...the trophy is all that matters...but.....glaring issues were on display that game and the current roster is significantly thinner. A quality QB carved them up then and that pattern has continued.

The defense allowed 21 to the highest scoring offense in the NFL.

 

[everlong]

They should also realize their combined AAV is a notch under 30M/year and their teams are 2-6.

 

[Oswlek]

Agreed. Furthermore, we can't just say
" They've done it before". This is a new season. Past results doesn't guarantee future results. The D has never been this bad during the previous 2-2 starts ( 01, 03, 14). Richard Seymour, Harrison, Bruschi, Law, and Vrabel aren't walking through that door. A D with McCourtey, Butler, Gilmore, Hightower shouldn't be this bad.

Past performance doesn't guarantee future results, but it is the single best leading indicator.... which is all it needs to be.

As for the "this is DIFFERENT!" claim, you could have said the same thing about the OL in 2014. That worked out ok.

 

[DarrylS]

I've heard and seen Albert Breer sing this song (Collins and Jones should never have been jettisoned and they're badly missed) multiple times recently. He's one of those guys who's had a hardon for years with BB but cleverly disguises it lots of times. He's a frequent guest on Zolak's 98.5 show, Shaughnessy is on every Tuesday and Bertrand is Zolak's daily partner. My long-time frustration with BoZo is rooted in his ****y reaction to all 3 of those nitwits. He cowers when confronted by any of them, which happens all the time. He's a fake tough guy when it comes to defending the Pats. He pisses his pants daily with those guys from 10-2 then goes home, gets drunk and starts tweeting all sorts of phony BS, often about the Red Sox and Celtics. He's a first-class fraud. And I once liked him very much.

Could not agree more, how come, Zolak, the "smartest" football guy in the room does not assert his authority??? I have often chided him on twitter for being the resident wallflower on the 10-2 show.. Bertram's need to stoke controversy is greater than his need to try to present cogent arguments.. cannot tolerate him.

The larger issue are the mediots in general, which I avoid at all cost after a loss.. this whole BS about keeping Collins and Jones is what it is, ********.. Collins refused to do what was expected of him when he was here, and as much as I liked his athleticism he was freelancing, after he left the D got better.. Jones was another one, he wanted to break the bank and his shenanigans with substances made him a bad gamble.

All of these are Borgesesque efforts to undermine and second guess BB, who has done a "decent" job as the HC of the NEP...

 

[Oswlek]

I've heard and seen Albert Breer

There's your problem, right there.

 

[Vatahala]

Has a HC father ever fired a assistant son?

The biggest problem from what I read was miscommunication in the secondary, will a freelancer claim he heard something different?

 

[bresna]

I keep seeing Sheard's name pop up here on the forums... do people forget that he was *benched* for a game last year? I was surprised he wasn't cut last year. Re-signing him this off season really wasn't going to happen, especially considering that they lilely felt he wasn't earning what he was being paid last year.

 

[brdmaverick]

It's a football season. There are ups and downs. Sitting at 2-2 and considering more than 2-2 because we thought something else would happen is pointless.
.

Pointless? Only in the literal sense that ANYTHING and EVERYTHING we talk about on this message board has no effect on the outcomes of Pats games. But this is a message board where fans come to enjoy conversation with others who are just as passionate as ourselves. To suggest that "expectations vs results" should have no influence on the tone of conversations is just crazy.

Let's put it this way, if the Pats AND Browns both started 0-4 I would expect more of a 'state of shock' on the Pats message board and more of a 'ho hum, maybe 2020' mentality in the Browns forum.

2-2 with talent you think is worthy of 19-0 is better than 2-2 with 6-10 talent.

Which is why I'm actually not one of the ones hitting the panic button. Am I shocked? Sure, any rational fan would be. Do I think they'll turn it around? Sure. I'm also just stating that while I think they'll turn it around I do understand those other fans exuding more concern than others. It's a forum to talk about our team.....and they haven't looked good.....so it's worthy of discussion.

Are you suggesting that we shouldn't discuss how the defense has gotten off to a historically bad start?