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This offseason was made possible by moving on from Jones and Collins

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Ice_Ice_Brady, Mar 15, 2017.

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  1. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When we look back on Belichick's career, there might not be a better example of his brilliance than trading Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins. Beyond the fact that the team just won the Super Bowl - mind you with the #1 defense - without them, it's amazing that Belichick was able to get the assets he did in return. A second round pick that became Thuney and Mitchell and a compensatory pick this year.

    The defense barely missed a beat without these two, and they just signed for a combined $78M in guaranteed money, well over $100M total. The conventional wisdom was that the Patriots need to lock up at least one of them along with Hightower. By moving on from these guys a year early, we not only received assets in return but had the cap space to fill an absolutely stacked roster. Many of these free agent signings don't exist had we paid a king's ransom, especially for Jones.

    Did I mention we fielded the number one defense and won the SB without them? Wouldn't that make teams like the Cardinals and Browns wonder if these guys are really worth a blockbuster deal when our defense arguably improved when we replaced them with journeymen players?

    Just thought I'd make a thread to clearly outline the connection between this offseason of riches, which was setup by avoiding huge deals to players who had no business getting them, despite that they were "all-pro" caliber with great stats and athleticism. As BB says, it's about building a team, not collecting talent.

    Everyone suspected Belichick had a master plan during his unpopular, headscratching dumps of supposedly cornerstone players needed to contend and who then must become career Patriots. Well, here is the master plan in action, and it is more insanely brilliant than anyone would have imagined.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
  2. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss 28-3.... PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would trust BB with anything...from carrying my TV..to throwing my child from a window..running down the stairs and catching the sucker while studying film on Tampa...he's got my vote
     
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  3. JJC

    JJC I didn't order assholes with my whiskey. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bill Belichick:
    1. Designs the menu.
    2. Invents and refines the recipes.
    3. Shops for the groceries.
    4. Prepares the meal.
    5. Eats the meal (and shares).
    6. Cleans up after the meal.
    7. Watches video of all preceding steps to see which could be improved.
    8. Returns to step 1 and repeats.
    No days off, baby.
     
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  4. Marqui

    Marqui Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I think it had more to do with his assembling of the entire starting Oline with good cheap players. Look at all the crazy money throws around at Olinemen in the FA, many of whom are terrible (Kalil, Okung).
     
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  5. NormZauchin

    NormZauchin PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who is the sommelier?
     
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  6. slam

    slam In the Starting Line-Up

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    Ernie Adams.
     
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  7. ViperGTS

    ViperGTS Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I think the entire o-line cost was near nothing. Also, Scar was a huge addition. BB better have a replacement on speed dial that is as close to Scar as possible. College, high school I don't care. Cannon is a stud now in large part due to Scar.
     
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  8. Thelonious

    Thelonious Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Sometimes you think, "Well, Belichick, the arrogant sob, got lucky on THAT screwy decision!" Then you notice that he gets "lucky" all the time and that there was a logic, based on a sound analysis of the situation, which neither you nor all the pundits saw at the time.

    He's smarter than us. He's like five moves ahead of us.

    That can be hard to take (Imagine how hard it is for fans of OTHER teams!), but there's no denying it. He just is.
     
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  9. Biffins

    Biffins In the Starting Line-Up

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    Our OLine is still a major concern, especially in the middle. Andrews easily gets overpowered. And Solder is now in his contract year. We need to draft some OL. And we will.

    I also think that trading for Cooks or bringing in Gilmore are also reflections of the fact that we have historically done really poorly drafting WRs and CBs. We have wasted so many 2nd round picks on useless defensive backs over the last 10 years that it's astounding. And WRs we just gave up drafting after Dobson, otherwise we also have a huge list of busts there.

    OL on the other hand we have consistently found players in 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds who turned out to be starting calibre and we have brought them along in the system. Hence us almost never bringing in OL in free agency. I think we'll again draft a number of OL in this draft. Thank god we have Scar. Even during Scar's 2 year break, he was still helping evaluate talent during the draft.
     
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  10. mnpatfan

    mnpatfan Rookie

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    Ernie is the juicer.
     
  11. Thelonious

    Thelonious Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Drafting players - CB's, WR's or otherwise - is FAR more difficult, signing draftees is far more financially risky, than most fans, giddy with excitement, lookin' for a cheap thrill come draft time, allow themselves to realize. Belichick doesn't just REALIZE it: unlike many GM/exec's, led around by the nose by fan expectations, he has the courage to ACT on that knowledge, to make the boring-but-important decisions, to sign the sure 7/10 player rather than the messiah "sure hall of famer" pheenom on the draft board, to dump the guy who is about to get too expensive, to ditch the beloved teammate who's about to fade, to acknowledge what he does not and can not know about some 21-year-old whose NFLreadiness is undeterminable on the film because he's been the best player on the field all his life.

    That's part of why we are where we are. Has Belichick always understood and acted on these perceptions? Nope: he has learned, which is another aspect of the guy's genius.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  12. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that's not quite the entire story. It's not accurate to say they're all good, cheap players. Solder had the 2nd-highest cap hit at LT last season, while Vollmer would have been 8th if his contract hadn't tolled due to being on PUP. Instead, they pushed that money towards Cannon, who had the 3rd-highest cap hit among RTs.

    The Patriots think looooooong-term with moves they make. The team projects various drafts multiple years into the future, and so they had to have an inkling that this year's draft would be terrible for OL. I'm sure they do similar for potential FAs, and they had to know this year's market would be rich which is why the Solder 2-year deal covering this year was great.

    And the cap hit might be low for some players, but they've invested draft capital on the line, multiple mid-round picks not just for starters Thuney and Mason, but quality depth with Jackson and Karras waiting to jump in just in case. They value depth, which is why they kept Cannon around when everyone wanted to get rid of him but BB and Scar, and he turned into a critical player.

    So I'd say it isn't just cheap contracts. The team invests considerably in the line, from draft picks to money. Then they combine that with awesome coaching.

    But yes, there is stupid money in the FA market right now for tackles.
     
  13. ChessToCheckers

    ChessToCheckers Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    IIRC, Bill has referenced the idea that when competing with 31 other teams, it's important to do things differently. Be where they aren't. Don't do what they do. Similar to: "Buy when everyone is selling and sell when everyone else is buying."

    Some examples: we go 3/4 when most were still using 4/3. Less competition for those who better fit 3/4.

    Running back by committee because the high-priced single running back gets injured. Pay well for your middle class because depth wins football games, especially late in the season when it counts most. Go heavy on two tight end sets. Be willing to trade good players a year early rather than a year late. Outside DLs who can consistently set the edge are better value than the big sack guys who cost a fortune.

    And now this year: Trade top round picks to acquire contract-friendly, top talented draftees that have proven themselves at the NFL level. This can mitigate the risk of top picks busting.

    "Chess To Checkers" is what's happening. It sucks to be the other 31! Gotta love it!
     
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  14. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Pro Bowl Player

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    All that worrying about losing those 3 and somehow BB just turns my fears into elation the way it turned out.

    "We're not worthy." Waynes World
     
  15. Rusty Coupe

    Rusty Coupe Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Sheard, Collins, and Jones new contracts total up to $158m with $90m guaranteed.
     
  16. borg

    borg PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Solder and Volmer were paid handsomely. Solder still is.
    No doubt BB used minimal draft capital to man the interior OL and their current minimal contracts allow BB to build depth elsewhere.
    And no doubt Scar stabilized a grouping that was more than erratic (injured) in '15.

    That being said, how "good" did the 2016 OL perform?
    Brady took the biggest beating I can remember....regular season and playoffs.
    The running attack was stymied more often than not.
    And far too often, NE 's OL lost the battle of the trenches.
    Yes, they all are sporting beautiful rings...... but I credit Brady's miraculous ability of avoiding crippling injury far more the OL competency.
    NE could use an interior stud or two...with an eye out for a LT sooner rather than later IMO
    #KeepBradyAlive
     
  17. willard

    willard On the Game Day Roster

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    I don't know the QB hits, but it sure seemed like Brady was hit less than the previous 2 years.

    Patriots seem to limit their allotment to interior OL, DL, RB, WR in order to maximize their ability to pay out to DB, LB and QB. I know Brady takes a below market deal, but we have still paid a lot to him over the years.
     
  18. PatriotReign

    PatriotReign In the Starting Line-Up

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    Despite how things ended with them I will always love Collins and Chandler.
     
  19. Urgent

    Urgent In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't know.
    The math says they still have around $20-25mm in cap space left.
    The Patriots could have signed one of those two and still held $10-15mm in cap space, and collected another comp pick. Neither would have killed the salary cap this year.

    Clearly they succeeded winning a Super Bowl without those two.
    Jonathan Cooper made no impact, and consumed some cap space.
    The Jones draft pick became Thuney and Mitchell, who both helped - but it's hard to say, if the Patriots liked those two, that they could not have selected them otherwise. Thuney was commonly called a reach at the time, so he might have been selected later. Or in the Cyrus Jones draft slot, and Jones made little (positive) impact. Butterfly wings and tropical storms.

    But the original point is that those two trades made this offseason possible, not winning the Super Bowl.
    Had the Patriots not traded those two then, they could have signed one of the two, allowed both to depart, or franchised and traded one of them.

    I think they could have made the same decisions with the same financial flexibility if both were still on the team in February.
     
  20. Buchanty

    Buchanty Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    It's either him or John Harbaugh, with his deep knowledge of fine whines for any occasion.
     
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