The Krafts are relentless in their assault on Belichick's coaching.

[condon84]

I think we all have come to a understanding now that it worked because of Brady. Not because Kraft and Bill were financial gurus who was ahead of the curve.

I never thought Kraft would directly interfere and he didn't.

Turns out. He should have and there was a limit to how much control he should of allowed Bill.

The idea that it was one player and coaching didn't have anything to do with our success is gotta be the dumbest **** I read or hear people say.

 

[festy1986]

The idea that it was one player and coaching didn't have anything to do with our success is gotta be the dumbest **** I read or hear people say.

Your take is constantly seen around here.

What your take doesn't account for is Bills 5 patriot seasons without Brady vs the seasons with Brady.

This isn't hard.

One was successful without the other.

We know objectively for a fact what the two accomplished without the other. You don't need to infer it, hypothesize or conjecture.

Both together were essentially unstoppable.

Without Brady, Bill couldn't even make the playoffs.

Brady was winning Superbowls though.

 

[condon84]

Your take is constantly seen around here.

What your take doesn't account for is Bills 5 patriot seasons without Brady vs the seasons with Brady.

This isn't hard.

One was successful without the other.

We know objectively for a fact what the two accomplished without the other. You don't need to infer it, hypothesize or conjecture.

Both together were essentially unstoppable.

Without Brady, Bill couldn't even make the playoffs.

Brady was winning Superbowls though.

As important as a QB is, which is very important, football is still a team game. QBs don't play defense or special teams. They don't coach any positions. They don't get OLs, DLs, DBs, LBs, etc, ready for their opponents tendencies. They don't gameplan like coaches. Brady was the best ever to play QB but without everything else around him working, he wouldn't have the same success.

Vinatierre misses those kicks, Butler doesn't intercept that pass, Hightower doesn't strip sack Ryan. It can go on and on. Brady, as great as he played in that Eagles SB loss, still lost because the team wasn't good enough. Conversely, as well as our defense played in that 07 SB, we still lost because Brady only managed to lead the offense to 14 points after averaging 36 points per game. Are we gonna blame that on Brady?

I know it's a hard concept for fans who insist Bill sucks, but football isn't golf where it's just one guy.

 

[upstater1]

Bill bolting would of left us in a better place. At the very least it would of left us in the same place we are now but 4 seasons ago.

However I think after Bill came out at the end of this season and said on a Monday press conference he was open to giving up GM duties if it was decided it was best for the team, I think it's actually a myth that he would of bolted.

in the end, Kraft traded Brady's last 3 seasons for Bills last 4.

it was a horrendous decision and it needs to be recognized as such.

Or, it was an old team that ran out of gas and needed a total overhaul. Look at the guys who left. A lot of Pro Bowl talent. A lot of top performers who weren't Pro Bowl. Whether Bill stayed, left, Brady stayed, it wouldn't have mattered at all. With Brady at the helm, they still don't stop the Bills from scoring repeatedly in '21 even with another coach.

 

[upstater1]

Your take is constantly seen around here.

What your take doesn't account for is Bills 5 patriot seasons without Brady vs the seasons with Brady.

This isn't hard.

One was successful without the other.

We know objectively for a fact what the two accomplished without the other. You don't need to infer it, hypothesize or conjecture.

Both together were essentially unstoppable.

Without Brady, Bill couldn't even make the playoffs.

Brady was winning Superbowls though.

Ever consider that it's easier for a player to join a team with 12 Pro Bowlers and win than it is for a coach to rebuild a team and win?

Players and coaches are two different things, and they impact the game differently.

I suppose a fairer comparison would be if Arians took over the Patriots in '20 with Brady at QB while Belichick went down to Tampa with Phillip Rivers or Joe Flacco.

 

[festy1986]

As important as a QB is, which is very important, football is still a team game. QBs don't play defense or special teams. They don't coach any positions. They don't get OLs, DLs, DBs, LBs, etc, ready for their opponents tendencies. They don't gameplan like coaches. Brady was the best ever to play QB but without everything else around him working, he wouldn't have the same success.

Vinatierre misses those kicks, Butler doesn't intercept that pass, Hightower doesn't strip sack Ryan. It can go on and on. Brady, as great as he played in that Eagles SB loss, still lost because the team wasn't good enough. Conversely, as well as our defense played in that 07 SB, we still lost because Brady only managed to lead the offense to 14 points after averaging 36 points per game. Are we gonna blame that on Brady?

I know it's a hard concept for fans who insist Bill sucks, but football isn't golf where it's just one guy.

It's actually harder for Bill fanboys to understand that the QB is a 1000 time more important than the coach.

Brady won a ****in Superbowl with a guy previously considered a joke.

With Byron leftwich running the offense....

 

[festy1986]

Or, it was an old team that ran out of gas and needed a total overhaul. Look at the guys who left. A lot of Pro Bowl talent. A lot of top performers who weren't Pro Bowl. Whether Bill stayed, left, Brady stayed, it wouldn't have mattered at all. With Brady at the helm, they still don't stop the Bills from scoring repeatedly in '21 even with another coach.

I'm not sure why you wanna give Bill so much credit for the success but not hold him accountable for his drafting and team success the last 4 years.

His bad drafting, in spite of winning Superbowls also accelerated the horrible roster decline.

 

[festy1986]

Ever consider that it's easier for a player to join a team with 12 Pro Bowlers and win than it is for a coach to rebuild a team and win?

Players and coaches are two different things, and they impact the game differently.

I suppose a fairer comparison would be if Arians took over the Patriots in '20 with Brady at QB while Belichick went down to Tampa with Phillip Rivers or Joe Flacco.

Meanwhile, Bill the undisputed goat and genius he is couldn't find a job with the countless teams that have the roster but don't have the coach when he was available.

Stop playing with semantics. If you think Bill is better at being a coach than Brady is at playing football, you're wrong. Unconditionally and objectively patently wrong.

If that's NOT your take then you're wasting your time. We all know Bill was a great coach. We just know that Brady made his system and not the other way around.

 

[XLIX]

Ever consider that it's easier for a player to join a team with 12 Pro Bowlers and win than it is for a coach to rebuild a team and win?

12 Pro Bowlers? I am going to need to see the source behind that. This year's Super Bowl champion only had 5.

That aside, your above statement is BS. Rebuilding a team is a process, but Belichick drove this team into the ground. In year 4 of the rebuild, they were 4-13.

I used to compare Belichick without Brady to Jeff Fisher. That was an unfair comparison; Jeff Fisher is far, far better.

 

[condon84]

It's actually harder for Bill fanboys to understand that the QB is a 1000 time more important than the coach.

Brady won a ****in Superbowl with a guy previously considered a joke.

With Byron leftwich running the offense....

Arians was a joke? He already won NFL coach of the year twice before Brady joined him? Are you serious?

And I will always say players are more important than coaches. QB is the most important component in a football team. That is undeniable. But the idea that it was all Brady like you're insinuating is idiotic. It's the dumbest ****. I expect Skip to say it because he gets paid to say outlandish **** but a Patriot fan saying it about the Bill is insane to me.

 

[Wax Frog]

I used to compare Belichick without Brady to Jeff Fisher. That was an unfair comparison; Jeff Fisher is far, far better.

 

[SVN]

Even Curran who has killed BB a lot recently feels that the pats front office and ownership is doing a lot of unwarranted grave dancing on the past

 

[festy1986]

Arians was a joke? He already won NFL coach of the year twice before Brady joined him? Are you serious?

And I will always say players are more important than coaches. QB is the most important component in a football team. That is undeniable. But the idea that it was all Brady like you're insinuating is idiotic. It's the dumbest ****. I expect Skip to say it because he gets paid to say outlandish **** but a Patriot fan saying it about the Bill is insane to me.

Actually I'm not saying it's all Brady.

I've been very pro Bill over the years and was anti firing him.

All things being equal, gun to you head, building a team tomorrow, who do you pick?

You have your answer.

 

[Triumph]

Deep ball isn't his game? It's not his universe. His deep balls were so off target I couldn't believe it last year. Dude, loves to throw off his back foot too like he has a rocket arm and his passes aren't going to be floating all over the field.

Dink and dunk is Corkys A game.

Game Manager who might win you a playoff game.

 

[Triumph]

Even Curran who has killed BB a lot recently feels that the pats front office and ownership is doing a lot of unwarranted grave dancing on the past

When Mayo and GM Kraft have to stand on their record the game changes.

 

[condon84]

Actually I'm not saying it's all Brady.

I've been very pro Bill over the years and was anti firing him.

All things being equal, gun to you head, building a team tomorrow, who do you pick?

You have your answer.

Brady all the way.

But it still doesn't mean Bill didn't have a large role in our run.

 

[festy1986]

Brady all the way.

But it still doesn't mean Bill didn't have a large role in our run.

Bill was integral but I think they would of been fine without him too.

Brady was winning no matter who his coach was the last 15 years of his career.

 

[venecol]

There are already coaches commenting that their experience interviewing with the Patriots is the worst one they've ever had.

More lies from the biggest Bshitter on the forum.

 

[Wax Frog]

When Mayo and GM Kraft have to stand on their record the game changes.

I'll say it again - welcome to your New England Browns.

 

[lancerman]

As important as a QB is, which is very important, football is still a team game. QBs don't play defense or special teams. They don't coach any positions. They don't get OLs, DLs, DBs, LBs, etc, ready for their opponents tendencies. They don't gameplan like coaches. Brady was the best ever to play QB but without everything else around him working, he wouldn't have the same success.

Vinatierre misses those kicks, Butler doesn't intercept that pass, Hightower doesn't strip sack Ryan. It can go on and on. Brady, as great as he played in that Eagles SB loss, still lost because the team wasn't good enough. Conversely, as well as our defense played in that 07 SB, we still lost because Brady only managed to lead the offense to 14 points after averaging 36 points per game. Are we gonna blame that on Brady?

I know it's a hard concept for fans who insist Bill sucks, but football isn't golf where it's just one guy.

Here's the thing.... let's say all of those go the other way. The teams with Brady are still highly competitive teams getting in the playoffs and making runs. Win some lose some obviously and there is variable. But they were in the thick of things.

You subtract Brady and you have

5-11
0-2
11-5
3-1
7-9
10-7
8-9
4-13

This totals 48-57 with 1 playoff appearance and 0 playoff wins.