The Elephant In The Room - The Situation At Corner

[mgteich]

You can only do so much: you can't plan for having (almost) every single goddamn OL getting hurt during the same season, or losing the entire middle of your starting D front 7 in a three-week span.

I am simply saying that it makes little sense to PLAN that your top 3 corners will AGAIN have career seasons, AND that a rookie who spent his rookie season on IR will be a major contributor. We simply seen more than that.

 

[mgteich]

You could say the same thing about LB and DE

I agree. And many of the analysts agree (many have us drafting LB's and DE's).

The question is where the quality is. If the quality wasn't at DT in the top 100, I would think that CB, LB and DE would be much higher draft priorities.

 

[mgteich]

Where do any of the players we're likely to draft stand in the top 100? Coleman had an in\mpressive year last year for a UDFA and spent more time on the field than Malcolm Butler did in his rookie year. I'm not prepared to give up on a young player after one year.

I am not prepared to give up on anyone. We have 2 starters in their contract years who had career seasons last year. We have a scrap heap player who also had a career year at nickel. And we have a sophomore who spent his rookie year on IR.

We are NOT determining the final 53 at this point. I think that we have very little depth going into camp with Butler, Ryan, Coleman, Roberts and Biggers.

And yes, I would still say this if an extension or two were announced. Obviously, this would reduce the need. Even with BOTH starters extended, I think that we still need death and camp competition for the 3rd, 4th and 5th corner roster spots.

 

[manxman2601]

I am not prepared to give up on anyone. We have 2 starters in their contract years who had career seasons last year. We have a scrap heap players who also had a career year at nickel. And we have a sophomore who spent his rookie year on IR.

We are NOT determining the final 53 at this point. I think that we have very little depth going into camp with Butler, Ryan, Coleman, Roberts and Biggers.

And yes, I would still say this if an extension or two were announced. Obviously, this would reduce the need. Even with BOTH starters extended, I think that we still need death and camp competition for the 3rd, 4th and 5th corner roster spots.

I don't have a problem drafting corners, particularly on day 3, and as I've said, there's a couple of day two guys I like in Davis & Jones. I just don't think going into the season with exactly the same CBs we got to the AFC championship game with is all that bad a situation. And there's still months of potential signings and trades to come. I'm never opposed to drafting quality prospects regardless of whethewr we need them or not (chances are we probably will at some stage), just opposed to drafting poor quality ones because we feel there's a need.

 

[IllegalContact]

I don't have a problem drafting corners, particularly on day 3, and as I've said, there's a couple of day two guys I like in Davis & Jones. I just don't think going into the season with exactly the same CBs we got to the AFC championship game with is all that bad a situation. And there's still months of potential signings and trades to come. I'm never opposed to drafting quality prospects regardless of whethewr we need them or not (chances are we probably will at some stage), just opposed to drafting poor quality ones because we feel there's a need.

It seems day 3 is where we get our best CBs anyway

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I am not prepared to give up on anyone. We have 2 starters in their contract years who had career seasons last year. We have a scrap heap player who also had a career year at nickel. And we have a sophomore who spent his rookie year on IR.

Only Logan Ryan is in a contract year by any normal definition of that word.

There is zero chance of Butler having a good year and being allowed to walk.

 

[mgteich]

O

There is zero chance of Butler having a good year and being allowed to walk.

So, we'll pay him $15M a year if that's what needed?

Making believe that Belichick has no limits seems wrong.

 

[BelichickFan]

So, we'll pay him $15M a year if that's what needed?

Butler's not a UFA after this season, he's a RFA. We can tender him for about $3-4M at the first round level. We'd still have the right to match and get a #1 pick if we don't. Players very rarely leave as RFA.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

So, we'll pay him $15M a year if that's what needed?

Making believe that Belichick has no limits seems wrong.

I didn't say that.

I said that there is no chance of his having a good year and "walking."

If he has that good a year, then, at worst, the Pats will stick the first-round tender on him and get an extra first-round pick in 2017.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Dunno why everyone is so high on, Cyrus Jones. He is a runt. 5'10".

CB picks to consider:
Xavien Howard
Sean Davis

I really like Davis. He is a CB/safety hybrid that hits like a Mack truck. Great speed for his size and he flips his hips as well as any corner in this draft.

Howard I am not too high on. Lot of touching, pulling and grabbing going on with him in coverage. Makes me think he does not trust his speed or technique.

I would not get down on jones because of his size, but because he can not cover anybody. He is terrible in coverage.

The kid from Minnesota is about jones size, but I like him a lot more in coverage.

 

[supafly]

I'm less worried about what a rookie CB could contribute in 2016, but more interested in if he can be a 2017 starter. I think Logan Ryan is good enough and young enough to get a 4 or 5 year contract from somebody, but he's also probably the Patriots' fifth most important defensive free agent. If letting him go is what it takes to re-sign the top 4, then I think you have to let him go, preferably with a cheaper option already in place. I've put a lot more thought into general team-building than specific prospects this offseason, but Sean Davis sounds like one candidate.

I think a similar argument can be made at RT (Vollmer), DT (Branch, Knighton), and DE (Ninkovich, Long), but they'll all be 30+ while Ryan will hit free agency at 26.

Just reading this post makes me realize that there are many key free agents on both sides of the ball coming up. I'd like to see them start to get on this situation and lock a few of these guys up already.

 

[supafly]

You can only do so much: you can't plan for having (almost) every single goddamn OL getting hurt during the same season, or losing the entire middle of your starting D front 7 in a three-week span.

Understanding that you're speaking purely of the trenches, I'd add losing the top 2 running backs, as well as the cluster of a situation with our receiving options (Edelman missing 1/2 the season, Amendola battling injuries and missing time, and...Gronk).

The injury situation was insane last year, although I feel as though we've had this conversation before.

 

[supafly]

I'm not as negative about our corner situation as you. Butler was really pretty good last year and he will be here through 2017 or we get a 1st round pick. So we have our no 1 corner locked up two more years.

Ryan is a serviceable number 2. The question is do we think the market will overvalue him? I don't see Bill offering much more than the Kyle Arrington/Leigh Bodden type contract of about 5m a year.

I imagine a draft pick will come in and compete for the 3rd corner spot this year with a view to fighting for the number 2 spot next year if we don't resign Ryan.

I was also very high on Roberts in the draft last year and have hopes for him. Always the chance Tarrell Brown comes back if he is health too. Butler, Ryan, Coleman, Roberts and a 2nd/3rd round draft pick sounds alright to me.

Surely the biggest area of need is the defensive line? We only really have Malcom Brown locked up past this year. Nink, Sheard, Long, Branch, Knighton all free agents after this year and we don't know what we have in Flowers/Grissom.

I think you make some good points while looking at the glass half-full, just as @mgteich makes fine points while being a bit more reserved and cautiously optimistic.

The bottom line is that we almost surely need to draft a CB or two to add to the mix of candidates, while also preparing for the possibility of losing our CB2 for next season. While it may not be the best year for that specific position, the fact that there are plenty of picks and few(er) needs makes taking some shots a viable option. I actually feel the same about WR.

 

[manxman2601]

I really like Davis. He is a CB/safety hybrid that hits like a Mack truck. Great speed for his size and he flips his hips as well as any corner in this draft.

Howard I am not too high on. Lot of touching, pulling and grabbing going on with him in coverage. Makes me think he does not trust his speed or technique.

I would not get down on jones because of his size, but because he can not cover anybody. He is terrible in coverage.

The kid from Minnesota is about jones size, but I like him a lot more in coverage.

Do you mean Boddy-Calhoun or Eric Murray?

I agreed with everything you said, just not the bit about Jones not being able to cover. He's certainly not a shut down corner, but he's every bit as good a cover corner as Logan Ryan was coming out. Ryan had plenty of blown coverages at Rutgers.

But I agree with you about Davis who I like and Howard, who I don't.

Get Murray, Davis or Jones in the first three rounds and if you can't get them, get Ryan Smith, Bradberry or Kalan Reed on day three as developmental guys (or get a day 2 corner and a day 3 corner).

 

[IllegalContact]

grab someone like James Bradberry in round 6

 

[Jimke]

Just reading this post makes me realize that there are many key free agents on both sides of the ball coming up. I'd like to see them start to get on this situation and lock a few of these guys up already.

I agree. All the key guys they get to protect next year is one franchise player and an RFA.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I am willing to bet that the pats will take sean davis at 60 or 61.

 

[manxman2601]

I am willing to bet that the pats will take sean davis at 60 or 61.

He certainly fits the profile. Good speaker too which is an underrated aspect of Patriots type players. when you listen to people like McCourty or Slater or Harmon etc, they aren't mono-syllabic jocks. They're all pretty eloquent and intelligent.

 

[manxman2601]

I am willing to bet that the pats will take sean davis at 60 or 61.

It might depend on a run at OT. Pats have looked at all the potentially available OTs in that 2nd-3rd round. If only Hawkins, Murphy and Haeg are on the board at 61, that might force their hand. it's a risk assuming they''ll be there at 91 too.

 

[mgteich]

Butler's not a UFA after this season, he's a RFA. We can tender him for about $3-4M at the first round level. We'd still have the right to match and get a #1 pick if we don't. Players very rarely leave as RFA.

I agree that players rarely leave as an RFA.

My guess is that lots of teams will think him worth a 1st, depending on the price.