Patriots Local News:

SOURCE:CBS Boston


SOURCE:Boston.com


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:WEEI


SOURCE:WEEI


SOURCE:Boston Sports Journal


SOURCE:CBS Boston


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:NESN


SOURCE:NFL.com


SOURCE:WEEI


SOURCE:WEEI


SOURCE:Boston Sports Journal


SOURCE:Boston.com


SOURCE:Boston.com


SOURCE:WEEI


SOURCE:CBS Boston


SOURCE:CBS Boston


SOURCE:Boston Herald


SOURCE:TheAthletic


SOURCE:WEEI


SOURCE:WEEI


SOURCE:Boston Herald


SOURCE:98.5 The Sports Hub


SOURCE:NBC Sports Boston

Patsfans.com

Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: Jets
Mon
Oct 21st
Right Now At PatsFans.com:
Stellar Performance
Another strong performance by the defense leads to points and played a key role as the Patriots improved to 6-0 Thursday night.

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:

Texans ARE DUMB - Trade for Laremy Tunsil and Kenny Stills

Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by HailHydra, Aug 31, 2019.

  1. robertweathers

    robertweathers PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    49,837
    Likes Received:
    11,946
    Ratings:
    +72,350
    ---
    Is Stills the Taurus or the furniture?
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    46,878
    Likes Received:
    4,996
    Ratings:
    +30,056
    ---
    The Taurus. The one the kid threw up in in the back seat and you could never get the smell out of.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Winner Winner x 2
  3. YOUGOTMOSSED

    YOUGOTMOSSED In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2007
    Messages:
    4,148
    Likes Received:
    1,012
    Ratings:
    +5,900
    ---
    Maybe. Drafts are inherently a crapshoot. The Jets had 12 selections in 2014 with very little to show for it.
     
  4. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    46,878
    Likes Received:
    4,996
    Ratings:
    +30,056
    ---
    True but it still helps the dolphins because it gives them a better chance to improve and they weren’t going to win this year anyway.
    I’m not saying every team would be smart to dump players now for draft picks later but ones that have no prayer of winning certainly are smart to.
     
  5. YOUGOTMOSSED

    YOUGOTMOSSED In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2007
    Messages:
    4,148
    Likes Received:
    1,012
    Ratings:
    +5,900
    ---
    They now should be a cakewalk for us this season and, even if they use the future draft capital intelligently, they're still years away from being a problem for us.

    I think I'm okay with this trade.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Froob

    Froob Independent Investigator & pliable af PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    25,929
    Likes Received:
    4,643
    Ratings:
    +33,340
    ---
    I think if you subtract a first and downgrade the second to a third you walk away feeling like you gave up a lot but least you filled two big needs. But two first and a second? Damn. Tunsil and Stills will help though for sure.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    12,330
    Likes Received:
    2,165
    Ratings:
    +9,436
    ---
    To be fair, they are the JETEs.....
    Looks like Flores is taking the Pats approach of accumulating draft capital and merging it with Browns approach of selling off assets for future drafts in the hope of getting better quickly. Browns had multiples in rounds 1,2,3 last year and same this year ( but no first rounders)....

    IIRC, Pats should have 12 picks next year
    round 1
    round 2
    round 3 ( 3 picks with 2 being comp picks)
    round 4
    round 6 ( 3 picks w 2 being comp picks)
    round 7 ( 3 picks)

    Patriots' projected haul of 2020 NFL Draft picks still impressive after latest trades
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  8. Wheelman

    Wheelman Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Messages:
    10,409
    Likes Received:
    2,292
    Ratings:
    +11,850
    ---
    I'm so glad Clowney took this stance. I hope it deters teams from using the franchise tag in the future just to get some trade value out of them. This kinda backfired on them despite getting a 3rd round pick.
     
  9. patfanken

    patfanken PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,877
    Likes Received:
    8,578
    Ratings:
    +22,000
    ---
    In BOB"s defense, he is in a desperate situation. He has a pretty good team. He has a good QB. He was in desperate need of a LT to solidify an already shaky OL. Here's the thing. A good PLAYER is far better than a good DRAFT pick.

    You essentially know what you have in the good player. The draft pick on the other hand is NEVER a sure thing, as we see so often. So getting a top end LT and a quality WR is what BOB needs to keep his job. And consider this. The Texans might not have a first next year, but they WILL have more cap space than most teams. Perhaps they will get their first round talent next season through FA. Its an option. Just a thought.

    IIRC, true elite talent occurs only in the top 9 (according to the "experts"). Some years its as few as 5. "First round" talent runs from there to 17-20, depending on the year. After that from around 22-44 the"talent" level isn't really different (again according to the experts). So if you give any credence to this the Pats have gotten to pick just 3 first round talents in the last 20 years (Seymour, Mayo, and Solder) And they haven't had a shot at an "elite" talent in 2 decades. :eek:

    Now this isn't to say the Pats haven't gotten "good players" in the first round. But they've also got "good players" in other rounds as well. I mean when you look on it, the Pats are built on "good players" rather than elite ones. Last year's team was a perfect example. One could argue that Brady was just a "good QB" last season, and not elite. Gronk certainly wasn't. In fact the only real "elite" player was Gilmore. Everyone else was "good". But, unlike basketball, that can work in football That's the beauty of the game, because the SUM can be greater than the individual parts. (and I never miss a chance to use that phrase, in case you haven't noticed ;) )

    Not saying that Miami did get a good deal based on their situation. It's just that if you look at it in a different way, the Texans got what they needed for THEIR situation
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. YOUGOTMOSSED

    YOUGOTMOSSED In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2007
    Messages:
    4,148
    Likes Received:
    1,012
    Ratings:
    +5,900
    ---
    I think it goes without saying we're in much better shape than Miami. We just need a couple of these picks to work out.

    If Stidham is really the goods, I think we'll have the advantage over the rest in a post-Brady AFCE.
     
  11. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    28,580
    Likes Received:
    2,638
    Ratings:
    +9,544
    ---
    I know drafts are a crapshoot, but the beauty part is, so is talent evaluation of vets, just less so.

    Watching this thread, I keep thinking of our tearing-out-the-hair scenario when we sent Jimmy G to San Fran. OMG, we got WHAT for him??? A fifth or something? I mean, he was guaranteed to be the next Tom Brady, if not better, everybody knew it, blah blah blah. He still might have another act in him, mind you, but the buckets of digital ink spilled on who reamed who on that deal just don't look as black and white anymore.

    I dunno, just feeling like being contrarian, I mean, that is a LOT of draft capital LOL... it tells us all a lot about the relative rarity of a great runningback for example, and a can't miss (sic) LT. (cf. the deal that brought Ricky Williams to the Australian Outback I mean Miami I mean New Orleans... the whole draft for Ricky Williams before he played a down, right? Then two 1s and a 4 from Miami to New Orleans... do we see that for running backs anymore?)

    Also cf. the Jimmy G. situation. The so-called "skill" positions are the ones you think are running the game, the O-line, especially the LT, are the ones you'll trade a whole draft for now.

    Cherry picking or trend convergence?
     
  12. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    50,123
    Likes Received:
    7,604
    Ratings:
    +49,829
    ---
    They’re weakened for now and that was the plan. They’re pretty much in for tanking this season anyway and they were able to haul in two extra first rounders in the next two years. They can rebuild themselves on the fly especially considering their own firsts will be low enough to be in the range of the top QBs in the draft this year and next year. Hopefully they miss but their re-start is going off beautifully right now. The Texans way overpaid.
     
  13. Ras-IR Dowling

    Ras-IR Dowling Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2012
    Messages:
    5,433
    Likes Received:
    1,143
    Ratings:
    +7,707
    ---
    I’d imagine Fitz’s leash will be pretty short. Dolphins need to find out what they have in Rosen at some point.
     
  14. Bill Lee

    Bill Lee What, me worry? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,871
    Likes Received:
    1,153
    Ratings:
    +5,828
    ---
    He's the "Love the one you're with" guy.

    Sorry for planting the earworm.

    Actually, I'm not sorry, but I'm sorry that I'm not sorry.
    TL;DR: It's better to squander draft capital on pro players with track records than to get fired and have someone else squander that draft capital.

    The fly in the ointment is that the same BOB just traded Clowney for the proverbial bag of balls when he could have just played hard ball and maybe gotten him to deal with the fact he was stuck on the Texans for one more season and needed to show something on the field to get his next contract. I guess BOB thought he was too disruptive to keep.

    But overall I can see why BOB did what he did. I agree draft capital is overvalued and as you say they have a lot of cap room for next year's FA class. BOB's mission is to keep his job long enough to be able to spend up that cap room. Texans fans were screaming "Do something!" and BOB did something.
     
  15. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    46,878
    Likes Received:
    4,996
    Ratings:
    +30,056
    ---
    [
    I get all that but the price was really steep.
    The dolphins were probably cutting stills.
    Miami was just as desperate to unload players.
    A 1 and a 4 would have been fair.
    Whether it was just a horrible trade negotiation or whether it’s the result if poor management up until now backing them into a corner where they made 2 terrible trades at the last minute is debatable but it’s bad management either way.
    As I said the trade made them a better team but the cost was out of line.
     
  16. patfanken

    patfanken PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,877
    Likes Received:
    8,578
    Ratings:
    +22,000
    ---
    I don't disagree that the cost WAS high. I think a first next year and a 2nd the year after would have been fair with the bump being the Texan's time urgency but that's just nitpicking.

    I disagree that Stills would have been cut. He's too talented. Stills is a solid #2 on any team, and its just what Houston needed. IIRC they have some WR's hurt right now.

    So in the end a good deal is when both teams are happy with what they got. On the surface Miami got the better of the deal because 2019 is already a throwaway season for them. But I don't think the gap is as big as its being represented.

    Now the Seattle deal is another story. That was simply poorly managed
     
  17. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    46,878
    Likes Received:
    4,996
    Ratings:
    +30,056
    ---
    We disagree on stills.
    He wasn’t okaying for Flores. No way.
    Flores trolled his media comments with practice music and stills shot back in the media. The guys a turd.
    And no he isn’t a good #2 WR. In his last 12 games he has had over 40 receiving yards once.
     
  18. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
    Messages:
    10,639
    Likes Received:
    1,592
    Ratings:
    +6,619
    ---
    Glad to see there are still Hershel Walker heists alive and well in todays day and age. Not quite the magnitude but man, wtf?
     
  19. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    Messages:
    11,056
    Likes Received:
    4,551
    Ratings:
    +23,624
    ---
    I’d now take Miami’s future over the Jets or Bills. I think Rosen is the only one of those three who has a chance to be successful. Allen is basically a running back with a totally erratic cannon arm, and Darnold may be okay but is better suited for the 1980s with his build and style. Rosen may very well be a bust but still has the ideal athleticism and pocket style game that can succeed. It’s all about his confidence, coaching, and willingness to learn at this point. I imagine Rosen is a lot like Rodgers as a raw rookie; starting him day 1 in AZ was a terrible idea.

    If he pans out, then two additional first round picks? They would be in good position for a total turnaround.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    Messages:
    11,056
    Likes Received:
    4,551
    Ratings:
    +23,624
    ---
    Florio nails it...recommended reading:

    Texans “flatter” management structure falls flat on its face

    Key Points:

    • The Texams would have received a third-round comp pick for Clowney had they just not franchised him to begin with, and may have received one had they just rescinded the tag. They also could have traded him before July 15th which would have made his value much higher, as now he can not be extended by an interested team. Instead they are paying half his 2019 salary and basically had to take on a couple of questionable contracts (Mingo was likely to be cut anyway.) All in all the Clowney trade is absurdly bad and makes no sense.
    • Beyond the massive overpay for Tunsil, they don't even have a long-term contract him, so there's a chance he could cost two first as a rental player. Tunsil now has massive leverage in negotiating a long-term deal.
    • The organization is basically a laughing stock for these two horrible trades yesterday. Florio believes Easterby, not O'Brien, may be the impetus behind these trades.
    • In a "poetic justice" type of result, it seems as though their clumsy courting of Caserio is actually going to be their downfall. They naively thought they'd just be able to take a GM from another organization and let go of their own GM. Now that there's no one there, they've destroyed their future and no GM would want the job any more.
    The league is buzzing about the level of ineptitude that these deals demonstrate. But few are surprised. The General Manager is gone, the coach (who has shown that he is a very good coach) isn’t a personnel specialist, and the guy who has finagled a path from chaplain to inner circle lacks the capacity to even begin to understand how the job is supposed to work.

    Cal McNair boasted in July that the team will have “flatter organization with a faster management style” and that the “organization is totally re-energized with a team-based approach and new leadership based on sub programs with each sub program being fully optimized as a goal.” It was a confusing talking point when it was articulated by McNair, and it’s more confusing now.

    Given the long-term impact of Saturday’s moves (along with the lingering presence of Easterby), it will be incredibly difficult for the Texans to hire the kind of G.M. they need in 2020. Whoever that G.M. is will surely have a chance to be a G.M. somewhere else next year, or to wait for another opportunity in 2021.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019

Share This Page

Search For Links: - CLOSE
For searches with multiple players
add commas (Ex: "Brady, Gronkowski")