Tebow, Blount, Edelman

[Nunchucks]

Simple fact is that McCoy didn't have an answer for what the D was presenting. He didn't run constraint plays to make the D pay for their alignment or force them to open up.

No, he had a QB that didn't have an answer for what the patriots were doing and his QB could not run the plays that would make the Patriots defense pay. McCoy did the best he could with what he had.

 

[Demosthenes]

Right, Tannenbaum did not want to save his job...and Rex would rather risk getting fired than field the best team he can. Your conspiracy theory based on ZERO facts runs contrary to everything we know about the NFL. It is nothing but an excuse for why Tebow did not play.

You can live in your fantasy land where the best players sit on the bench, but the rest of us see clearly that the problems with Tebow's game lie in his inability to throw accurate passes, deliver the ball quickly, read defenses, and possibly remembering the offensive plays.

I've watched Tebow play the Patriots twice in 2011, it was a pathetic display, I actually felt kind of bad for him, he was awful in both outings...and that was against the WORST pass defense I've ever seen. The Patriots were making the dreg QBs of the league look like Peyton Manning....and then they played Tebow..

Your memory is faulty then as the first time the Pats played Denver, Tebow was doing just fine right up until they Broncos had 3 turnovers starting midway through the 2nd quarter. Tebow ended up passing for close to 200 yards and ran for another 93.

 

[Nunchucks]

Your memory is faulty then as the first time the Pats played Denver, Tebow was doing just fine right up until they Broncos had 3 turnovers starting midway through the 2nd quarter. Tebow ended up passing for close to 200 yards and ran for another 93.

Oh, so you mean he played fine for a mere quarter and a half? 200 yards passing against the worst pass defense in memory...yeah..hang your hat on that.

In what world is 50% completion percentage good? Thomas with 7 catches 116 yards tore up a Patriots pass defense that could not cover

 

[Oinko]

Check back in and find this. Imagine that.

Tebow's the only guy I've ever ever seen where fans of his own team take offense at the suggestion he's a good player.

 

[sb1]

Here's some extrapolated stats that might surprise you (they shocked me when I calculated them last year )


DThomas:

played 16 games in 2012 with Manning:

94 catches, 1434 yards, 15.26 YPC, 10 TDs.

Breaks down to a per game avg of:

5.8 catches game,
89.65 yards per game
15.26 YPC
0.62 TDs per game


DT was only 100% and in game shape for the last 5 games of the 2011 regular season. Here's his per game stats with Tebow throwing the ball to him

5 catches per game,
89.6 yards per game
17.92 YPC
0.6 TDs per game.


If you project the stats from the last 5 games over an entire 16 game season, it would be 75 catches for 1433 yards.

You sure that Tebow can't throw ?

Yep I'm sure.

It also sounds like you're telling me Thomas really isn't "sub par". And 5 games =/= a full 16 games.

 

[sb1]

Your memory is faulty then as the first time the Pats played Denver, Tebow was doing just fine right up until they Broncos had 3 turnovers starting midway through the 2nd quarter. Tebow ended up passing for close to 200 yards and ran for another 93.

Tebow wasn't beating the Pats, the read option was.

That is until the Pats made adjustments on defense and then they won going away.

 

[sb1]

Again, I didn't obliterate my point.

As for the second worst pass defense of all times, in my view, that's a misconception. The Pats D was very good where it mattered

No they weren't

IIRC, they were top 5 or 10 in scoring defense. They also ranked pretty high in takeaways if I remember correctly.

Sure, except it was against an easy schedule. They played only 2 teams in the regular season that ended up with a winning record and lost to both of them. Despite the easy schedule:

2nd worst in the NFL in passing yards per game given up
2nd worst in the NFL in completions given up
2nd worst in the NFL in first downs allowed
4th worst in the NFL in yards allowed per pass attempt
5th worst in the NFL in yards allowed per completion
5th worst in the NFL in third down conversion pct allowed
Bottom half of the NFL in QB rating allowed

Allowed this stat line: 30-37, 353 yards, 2 TD to Dan Freakin' ORLOVSKY...and a putrid and winless Colts team almost upset the Pats at home. Inexcusable.

No that D was hideous, and Tebow looked awful against them.



On another note, it certainly didn't help that the Denver Defense let Brady and the Pats offense score seemingly every time they looked at the ball.

Denver's secondary was terrible and still is. I think Jacoby Jones can tell you about that.

...........

 

[situational_awareness]

Sooooo... about these Blount and Edelman guys...

 

[Deus Irae]

The NFL is about winning, if Tebow gave the Jets the best chance to win, he would have started. Simple as that.

That is, without question, the silliest thing I've read all day.



Thanks for the laughs.

 

[Brady6]

As I said before, there isn't a person in the world who can honestly make an argument trying to claim that McElroy gave the Jets a better chance to win. Prior to the game against San Diego, he had thrown 7 whole passes in his NFL career. Compare that to a 9-7 record as a starter with a playoff victory. No way the kid should have started over Tebow.

Tebow was injured.


http://www.sbnation.com/fantasy/201...njury-ribs-fantasy-inactive-jets-vs-cardinals

 

[Demosthenes]

Oh, so you mean he played fine for a mere quarter and a half? 200 yards passing against the worst pass defense in memory...yeah..hang your hat on that.

In what world is 50% completion percentage good? Thomas with 7 catches 116 yards tore up a Patriots pass defense that could not cover

Ya know, I have yet to watch an NFL game where the outcome was based on comparing the 2 QB's comp %. I thought the score is what mattered.

Comp % is a decidedly overly abused statistic that people put way too much stock in. I'd rather have a QB with a 50% comp % and a 2 to 1 Td/Int ratio than a QB with a 65% comp % and a 1/1 TD/Int Ratio.

BTW, don't mistake my argument to mean that Tebow is the greatest QB evah or anything like that. When he played the Pats, he had fewer than 16 starts under his belt coming off the bench as the backup.

 

[Demosthenes]

Tebow was injured.


Tim Tebow injury: Cracked ribs keep Jets quarterback out, affecting nobody's fantasy lineup - SBNation.com

Thanks, but I'm aware of what transpired as I lived through the miserable nightmare of a season last year.


Tebow was injured for the Cardinals game where Sanchez got pulled and McElroy came in to finish the game. Rex then handed the keys back to Sanchez to start the next two games, against Jax and Tenn. Rex benched him again after the Tenn game and named McElroy the starter for the following game against SD.

Tebow had been cleared to play well before then.

 

[Brady6]

Thanks, but I'm aware of what transpired as I lived through the miserable nightmare of a season last year.


Tebow was injured for the Cardinals game where Sanchez got pulled and McElroy came in to finish the game. Rex then handed the keys back to Sanchez to start the next two games, against Jax and Tenn. Rex benched him again after the Tenn game and named McElroy the starter for the following game against SD.

Tebow had been cleared to play well before then.

Can I ask what exactly is it that you want the Patriots to do to make up for what you view as a injustice by the Jets toward Tebow last season?

Anybody who is suggesting that Tom F'n Brady should come off the field for Tim Tebow even for one snap a game is NOT looking at what's best for this team. It's laughable in fact. We are talking about a QB with a 9-7 career record and a career completion of 47%.

Tom Brady hasn't win less than Tebow's career total in any season he's been a starter, he's been to 5 SB won 3, he's won 2 MVP's and is a pillar in the community and by all intensive purposes a great human being.

If you want to come back after 2017 when Brady retires and argue for Tebow to be the starting QB that's fine I may even entertain it. But today come on? That type of logic belongs on Christian Mingle not in a Patriots forum where 99.9% of the user live and breath this team winning.

 

[Joker]

Here's some extrapolated stats that might surprise you (they shocked me when I calculated them last year )


DThomas:

played 16 games in 2012 with Manning:

94 catches, 1434 yards, 15.26 YPC, 10 TDs.

Breaks down to a per game avg of:

5.8 catches game,
89.65 yards per game
15.26 YPC
0.62 TDs per game


DT was only 100% and in game shape for the last 5 games of the 2011 regular season. Here's his per game stats with Tebow throwing the ball to him

5 catches per game,
89.6 yards per game
17.92 YPC
0.6 TDs per game.


If you project the stats from the last 5 games over an entire 16 game season, it would be 75 catches for 1433 yards.

You sure that Tebow can't throw ?

Here's the stats from the game Tebow had versus the Patriots ...the one you refuse to reference..and of course , the one that bludgeons your pinhead into a puddle of sludge flowing back down the into the troll sewer.


Denver
PASS:
RUSH:
REC:

Tebow 9-26, 136 yds, 0 tds
McGahee 17 car, 76 yds, 1 td
Thomas 6 rec, 93 yds, 0 tds

N
E

PASS:
RUSH:
REC:

Brady 26-34, 363 yds, 6 tds
Hernandez 5 car, 61 yds, 0 tds
Gronkowski 10 rec, 145 yds, 3 td

Tebow found Thomas six times for over 2/3's of his unbelievably pathetic 136 yards. I was THERE in section 118. I witnessed that beatdown as did EVERY SINGLE FAN HERE. Tebow was bloodied, bullied,beaten and buried. He was NEVER any kind of effective factor whatsoever.The measly offense he did muster came off broken plays where he was forced to scramble and as any semi-sentient human can see, he almost always targeted Thomas.

Now, you have been under our scrutiny here from the 3000 + posts you inundated J.I. with last season. YOU are a troll. YOU have a clear agenda that has as its' central focus a nonstop barrage of Tebow propaganda. Stop polluting OUR Patriots fan board with YOUR trolling. You are NOT a Patriot fan, you have openly backed our mortal enemy and you are NOT wanted here.

 

[Kontradiction]

Again, I didn't obliterate my point.

As for the second worst pass defense of all times, in my view, that's a misconception. The Pats D was very good where it mattered, and that's the scoreboard. IIRC, they were top 5 or 10 in scoring defense. They also ranked pretty high in takeaways if I remember correctly.

BTW, the defensive game plan against the Broncos was very good and caught McCoy completely unprepared. Pats looked to be running a version of a 5-2 defense with a 5 man front. We can squabble over whether to say it was a 5 man dline or a 3 man line with 2 LBs blitzing all the time or a 4 man line with 1 blitzing LB.

Simple fact is that McCoy didn't have an answer for what the D was presenting. He didn't run constraint plays to make the D pay for their alignment or force them to open up.

On another note, it certainly didn't help that the Denver Defense let Brady and the Pats offense score seemingly every time they looked at the ball.

That garbage about the Pats even having a decent defense was thrown around here by unapologetic homers all throughout the season and the logic behind it was taken apart time and time again. Their pass defense was awful and if it wasn't for Green Bay being even worse on that side of the ball, they would have been the worst in the league against the pass by a mile. The game plan was a good one because it forced Tebow to do something he just isn't good at: being a pocket passer and going through his progressions. I've watched the kid since he was in high school (I'm from north Florida) and he simply isn't a pocket passer.

Saban put the book out on him in the 2009 SEC Championship game. Belichick read it and wrote a Pulitzer prize-winning bestseller sequel.

 

[Brady6]

Sooooo... about these Blount and Edelman guys...

I want Edelman on the roster. I think given Amendola's injury history having a capable back up to like Edelman to man the Z and Y WR positions is essential. I also think he is an above average ST player.

Blount I don't know much about except he had a great first season and has really regressed since. Whether that is because teams knowing how to defend him or his own lack of motivation I'm not sure. He is one of the players I look forward to seeing in the preseason, how he is used and where he may fits.

 

[mgteich]

Blount is a backup to Ridley and perhaps a short-yardage back. It seems unlikely to me that he will be beaten out by a drug-free Bolden. But that's why they have Training Camp. We shall see.

I want Edelman on the roster. I think given Amendola's injury history having a capable back up to like Edelman to man the Z and Y WR positions is essential. I also think he is an above average ST player.

Blount I don't know much about except he had a great first season and has really regressed since. Whether that is because teams knowing how to defend him or his own lack of motivation I'm not sure. He is one of the players I look forward to seeing in the preseason, how he is used and where he may fits.

 

[Kontradiction]

I want Edelman on the roster. I think given Amendola's injury history having a capable back up to like Edelman to man the Z and Y WR positions is essential. I also think he is an above average ST player.

Blount I don't know much about except he had a great first season and has really regressed since. Whether that is because teams knowing how to defend him or his own lack of motivation I'm not sure. He is one of the players I look forward to seeing in the preseason, how he is used and where he may fits.

Agree about Edelman. He has knowledge of the offense and is valuable on ST. As for Blount, I'm not sure where he'll fit. The competition in TC is going to be stiff and between Vereen, Washington, and Bolden, there won't be enough carries to go around. He's someone who really has to show something in order to earn a job.

 

[Brady6]

That garbage about the Pats even having a decent defense was thrown around here by unapologetic homers all throughout the season and the logic behind it was taken apart time and time again. Their pass defense was awful and if it wasn't for Green Bay being even worse on that side of the ball, they would have been the worst in the league against the pass by a mile. The game plan was a good one because it forced Tebow to do something he just isn't good at: being a pocket passer and going through his progressions. I've watched the kid since he was in high school (I'm from north Florida) and he simply isn't a pocket passer.

Saban put the book out on him in the 2009 SEC Championship game. Belichick read it and wrote a Pulitzer prize-winning bestseller sequel.

Key secondary players that season included,

James Ihedigbo
Antwaun Molden
Nate Jones
Sterling Moore
Julien Edelman
Matthew Slater
Sergio Brown

That's scary.. And any average NFL QB would of lit that group up. Anyone who doesn't see that is drinking the Kool-Aide.

 

[sb1]

That garbage about the Pats even having a decent defense was thrown around here by unapologetic homers all throughout the season and the logic behind it was taken apart time and time again. Their pass defense was awful and if it wasn't for Green Bay being even worse on that side of the ball, they would have been the worst in the league against the pass by a mile. The game plan was a good one because it forced Tebow to do something he just isn't good at: being a pocket passer and going through his progressions. I've watched the kid since he was in high school (I'm from north Florida) and he simply isn't a pocket passer.

Saban put the book out on him in the 2009 SEC Championship game. Belichick read it and wrote a Pulitzer prize-winning bestseller sequel.

Here's what some of the "great" QB's in the NFL did against the 2011 Pats pass defense.

Chad Henne: 30-49, 416 yards, 2 TD
Ryan Fitzpatrick (over 2 games): 56-86, 676 yards, 4 TD
Jason Campbell: 25-39, 344 yards, 1 TD
Dan Orlovsky: 30-37, 353 yards, 2 TD
Vince Young: 26-48, 400 yards, 1 TD
Rex Grossman: 19-32, 252 yards, 2 TD
Matt Moore: 16-32, 281 yards, 3 TD

THAT is a "good defense"?? Er...no.

And to think TT stunk it up against the same defense that these perennial pro bowlers lit up....