Tebow, Blount, Edelman

[sb1]

To take one example, the JEST didn't bring Tebow in to unseat Sanchez. They brought him in to sell PSLs.

Totally agree that's why they brought him in the first place.

But they also didn't expect Sanchez to play as lousy as he did. I still believe if Tebow was good enough to make Sanchez sit, it would have happened.

 

[Deus Irae]

How so...?

It's been done to death, but one example:

Thomas had only 22 catches as a rookie and missed the first 5 games of his second season (ended up with 32 catches). He was clearly in the developmental stage of his career while Tebow was there. Decker was also in his first and second seasons, and he managed to get 44 receptions in year 2 with Tebow, showing a big jump from the 6 receptions in his rookie season.


And, come on...

Tebow never had a shot of starting for the Jets. That was always going to be Sanchez' job.

 

[sb1]

It's been done to death, but one example:

Thomas had only 22 catches as a rookie and missed the first 5 games of his second season (ended up with 32 catches). He was clearly in the developmental stage of his career while Tebow was there. Decker was also in his first and second seasons, and he managed to get 44 receptions in year 2 with Tebow, showing a big jump from the 6 receptions in his rookie season.

I'm not saying those guys are among the best receivers in football (Welker is the best now of the trio), but they are definitely not "subpar". Thomas produced 94/1434 and Decker 85/1064 in 2012.. not numbers I would expect from untalented receivers.

Or maybe I have a different definition of "subpar" than most.

Either way, those two guys are not a valid excuse for tebow's shortcomings in Denver. Manning proved what they can do when the QB can throw them the ball accurately.

 

[sb1]

It's been done to death, but one example:

Thomas had only 22 catches as a rookie and missed the first 5 games of his second season (ended up with 32 catches). He was clearly in the developmental stage of his career while Tebow was there. Decker was also in his first and second seasons, and he managed to get 44 receptions in year 2 with Tebow, showing a big jump from the 6 receptions in his rookie season.


And, come on...

Tebow never had a shot of starting for the Jets. That was always going to be Sanchez' job.

I agree that was the intent when he was brought in. But I have a hard time buying that Sanchez couldn't have possibly been benched for TT later in the season if Tebow gave them a reason to do so.

 

[Remarker]

I agree that was the intent when he was brought in. But I have a hard time buying that Sanchez couldn't have possibly been benched for TT later in the season if Tebow gave them a reason to do so.

Hahaha, gave who a reason...Ryan and Sparano? That's the brain trust you are using to qualify your opinion? No wonder you make 'in the ditch' comments.

 

[g8orballboy]

I agree that was the intent when he was brought in. But I have a hard time buying that Sanchez couldn't have possibly been benched for TT later in the season if Tebow gave them a reason to do so.

 

[sb1]

LOL. Hard to argue with that.

 

[Christiancat]

The infamous tattoo Rex had on his arm of his wife in a Sanchez jersey. Rex Ryan was NEVER open to playing Tim. They just brought him in to sell tickets unfortunately.

 

[sb1]

Hahaha, gave who a reason...Ryan and Sparano? That's the brain trust you are using to qualify your opinion? No wonder you make 'in the ditch' comments.

If TT gave the Jets a reason to bench Sanchez and start him instead, it would have been done. Period. And I bet that call would have come from higher up than Rex. Looks like Rex wasn't the only one who thought Sanchez was the better QB. Which he is.

And they did briefly bench Sanchez even if it wasn't for TT. So in fact they were open to a change. Nuff said.

 

[g8orballboy]

If TT gave the Jets a reason to bench Sanchez and start him instead, it would have been done. Period. And I bet that call would have come from higher up than Rex. Looks like Rex wasn't the only one who thought Sanchez was the better QB. Which he is.

And they did briefly bench Sanchez even if it wasn't for TT. So in fact they were open to a change. Nuff said.

and then immediately started him the next game. Had they put in TT, the fan/media pressure (especially if he had won) would have been IMMENSE. There's not turning back once you open that can. Its obvious why they went with McElroy and it has nothing to do with him being better than Tebow. Unfortunately like many other things the Jets did, the side effect was further damaging Tebow's career.

 

[Demosthenes]

It's been done to death, but one example:

Thomas had only 22 catches as a rookie and missed the first 5 games of his second season (ended up with 32 catches). He was clearly in the developmental stage of his career while Tebow was there. Decker was also in his first and second seasons, and he managed to get 44 receptions in year 2 with Tebow, showing a big jump from the 6 receptions in his rookie season.

Exactly. "Young" and "inexperienced" receivers are generally "subpar" compared to others at the position. They need experience and seasoning. Some guys can step right in and make huge impacts in their first and second years, but those are fairly rare cases.

This isn't to say that they weren't talented and didn't have potential.

Come on....

Tebow never had a shot of starting for the Jets. That was always going to be Sanchez' job.

Right on here as well. Haven't quite figured out what it is with Rex. Whether it's misguided loyalty. Or perhaps it's because Rex was instrumental in trading up to take him in the draft. Or perhaps it's a weird fetish thing between him, his wife and Sanchez. Who knows. What I do know is that Sanchez should have been benched much earlier than he was last season, and that it didn't matter whom the backup was.

But Rex wasn't ready to move on from Sanchez. What would he have done if Tebow had come in and done exactly what he did in Denver ? Was he going to send Mark packing and eat the cap hit ? I mean, no team was going to trade for Sanchez given his contract.

As I said before, there isn't a person in the world who can honestly make an argument trying to claim that McElroy gave the Jets a better chance to win. Prior to the game against San Diego, he had thrown 7 whole passes in his NFL career. Compare that to a 9-7 record as a starter with a playoff victory. No way the kid should have started over Tebow.

 

[Demosthenes]

I'm not saying those guys are among the best receivers in football (Welker is the best now of the trio), but they are definitely not "subpar". Thomas produced 94/1434 and Decker 85/1064 in 2012.. not numbers I would expect from untalented receivers.

Or maybe I have a different definition of "subpar" than most.

Either way, those two guys are not a valid excuse for tebow's shortcomings in Denver. Manning proved what they can do when the QB can throw them the ball accurately.

Here's some extrapolated stats that might surprise you (they shocked me when I calculated them last year )


DThomas:

played 16 games in 2012 with Manning:

94 catches, 1434 yards, 15.26 YPC, 10 TDs.

Breaks down to a per game avg of:

5.8 catches game,
89.65 yards per game
15.26 YPC
0.62 TDs per game


DT was only 100% and in game shape for the last 5 games of the 2011 regular season. Here's his per game stats with Tebow throwing the ball to him

5 catches per game,
89.6 yards per game
17.92 YPC
0.6 TDs per game.


If you project the stats from the last 5 games over an entire 16 game season, it would be 75 catches for 1433 yards.

You sure that Tebow can't throw ?

 

[Kontradiction]

Here's some extrapolated stats that might surprise you (they shocked me when I calculated them last year )


DThomas:

played 16 games in 2012 with Manning:

94 catches, 1434 yards, 15.26 YPC, 10 TDs.

Breaks down to a per game avg of:

5.8 catches game,
89.65 yards per game
15.26 YPC
0.62 TDs per game


DT was only 100% and in game shape for the last 5 games of the 2011 regular season. Here's his per game stats with Tebow throwing the ball to him

5 catches per game,
89.6 yards per game
17.92 YPC
0.6 TDs per game.


If you project the stats from the last 5 games over an entire 16 game season, it would be 75 catches for 1433 yards.

You sure that Tebow can't throw ?

You are aware that you just made the case that Demariyus Thomas was NOT a sub-par receiver in 2011, right?

 

[Demosthenes]

You are aware that you just made the case that Demariyus Thomas was NOT a sub-par receiver in 2011, right?

Depends how deeply you look at things. I think that DT could be up there with Megatron in terms of ability and numbers. I'm also taking into account that he played in 11 games that Tebow started in 2011, though I only look at the stats from the last 5 when he was finally healthy and in game shape.

(The "finally healthy and in game shape factors into the whole "sub par" thing).

 

[Kontradiction]

Depends how deeply you look at things. I think that DT could be up there with Megatron in terms of ability and numbers. I'm also taking into account that he played in 11 games that Tebow started in 2011, though I only look at the stats from the last 5 when he was finally healthy and in game shape.

(The "finally healthy and in game shape factors into the whole "sub par" thing).

I wasn't looking at it all that deeply. And I don't care to get involved in this because I've made my thoughts on Tebow well known time and time again. I just wanted to point out that you completely obliterated your own point about DT being "sub-par" when you posted those stats. Further, you even made the case that Tebow was playing with him at his best during the most important part of the season... yet somehow still got embarrassed by the second worst pass defense of all time.

 

[Nunchucks]

and then immediately started him the next game. Had they put in TT, the fan/media pressure (especially if he had won) would have been IMMENSE. There's not turning back once you open that can. Its obvious why they went with McElroy and it has nothing to do with him being better than Tebow. Unfortunately like many other things the Jets did, the side effect was further damaging Tebow's career.

The NFL is about winning, if Tebow gave the Jets the best chance to win, he would have started. Simple as that.

 

[Christiancat]

The NFL is about winning, if Tebow gave the Jets the best chance to win, he would have started. Simple as that.

It is NOT as simple as that. But you are following "bandwagon logic". Tim gave a good chance of helping his team win. However, Rex didn't care and played Mark 97% of the time despite his poor performance.

 

[g8orballboy]

The NFL is about winning, if Tebow gave the Jets the best chance to win, he would have started. Simple as that.

For most teams... You underestimate the complete and total incompetence that is the New York Jets. I think we'll simply agree to disagree on this point.

 

[Nunchucks]

For most teams... You underestimate the complete and total incompetence that is the New York Jets. I think we'll simply agree to disagree on this point.

Right, Tannenbaum did not want to save his job...and Rex would rather risk getting fired than field the best team he can. Your conspiracy theory based on ZERO facts runs contrary to everything we know about the NFL. It is nothing but an excuse for why Tebow did not play.

You can live in your fantasy land where the best players sit on the bench, but the rest of us see clearly that the problems with Tebow's game lie in his inability to throw accurate passes, deliver the ball quickly, read defenses, and possibly remembering the offensive plays.

I've watched Tebow play the Patriots twice in 2011, it was a pathetic display, I actually felt kind of bad for him, he was awful in both outings...and that was against the WORST pass defense I've ever seen. The Patriots were making the dreg QBs of the league look like Peyton Manning....and then they played Tebow..

 

[Demosthenes]

I wasn't looking at it all that deeply. And I don't care to get involved in this because I've made my thoughts on Tebow well known time and time again. I just wanted to point out that you completely obliterated your own point about DT being "sub-par" when you posted those stats. Further, you even made the case that Tebow was playing him at his best during the most important part of the season... yet somehow still got embarrassed by the second worst pass defense of all time.

Again, I didn't obliterate my point.

As for the second worst pass defense of all times, in my view, that's a misconception. The Pats D was very good where it mattered, and that's the scoreboard. IIRC, they were top 5 or 10 in scoring defense. They also ranked pretty high in takeaways if I remember correctly.

BTW, the defensive game plan against the Broncos was very good and caught McCoy completely unprepared. Pats looked to be running a version of a 5-2 defense with a 5 man front. We can squabble over whether to say it was a 5 man dline or a 3 man line with 2 LBs blitzing all the time or a 4 man line with 1 blitzing LB.

Simple fact is that McCoy didn't have an answer for what the D was presenting. He didn't run constraint plays to make the D pay for their alignment or force them to open up.

On another note, it certainly didn't help that the Denver Defense let Brady and the Pats offense score seemingly every time they looked at the ball.