Talk with Judge - Labor lawyer who deals with Unions every day

[patsfan13]

If an arbitrator overturns a suspension it doesn't mean the player is innocent. Ray Rice's indefinite suspension was overturned, that didn't change the fact that he hit his wife. A reduction of a suspension in Brady's case, if it comes to that, won't clear his name, or make him either innocent or guilty.

Which is why Brady will sue the NFL and Wells and proceed with discovery he and G have the resources to fight the nfl, which not many have.

HE care about his reputation and will fight these punks tooth and nail and trolls like you will be unhappy.

 

[Dr Pain]

I just can't see the NFLPA rolling over on this one. Their guy is about to lose millions in paychecks based on conversations way back in the past. Have charges been brought forward in other games....NO....One game is in question....so lets examine the evidence in one game only.

If they can get away with doing this to Tom Brady who is worth 100s of millions, what chance does a 3 string player have against the NFL machine? Brady probably does not need the union's help as he can afford the best but the union needs Brady to win this or it is very bad for the rank and file members. Can you imagine every drug investigation the NFL wants to do now, they could demand every players phone, emails, chats, computers whenever there is any baseless accusation of any drug use. This would be huge and since it is reported that a large number of NFL players smoke pot, they would all be screwed.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

It seems the text messages of Brady might be a large issue here. Brady was insistent on not having these vetted during the Wells investigation. If Brady sues, it very likely makes these messages fair game. The question then becomes, would Brady now change his mind and decide to make them open for availability and possible scrutiny?

 

[Big-T]

It seems the text messages of Brady might be a large issue here. Brady was insistent on not having these vetted during the Wells investigation. If Brady sues, it very likely makes these messages fair game. The question then becomes, would Brady now change his mind and decide to make them open for availability and possible scrutiny?

Yes because the NFLPA told players not to cooperate with things like that (pretty sure it's something I've read in the past) - Gostkowski also didn't hand over his phone.

If either of them did it would set a precedent that the league could ask any player to hand over their phones without a warrant.

 

[patsfan13]

It seems the text messages of Brady might be a large issue here. Brady was insistent on not having these vetted during the Wells investigation. If Brady sues, it's very likely makes these messages fair game. The question then becomes, would Brady now change his mind and decide to make them open for availability and possible scrutiny?

SInce Brady didn't do anything wrong yes the NFL has far more to lose in the discovery process also this is be in a court proceeding so leaks from the NFL FO will be handled very differently the judge will kill if the nfl is inappropriate information is leaked. Goodell won't allow himself to be exposed like that.

 

[borg]

Has there been clarification regarding the issue of the NFL's authority/NFLPA position regarding gaining access to player's personal belongings. The NFLPA allows a player's bodily juices to be confiscated at anytime.....but is a player also required to allow entry/access to their homes/phones/cars/computers as well??

 

[tom444]

Which is why Brady will sue the NFL and Wells and proceed with discovery he and G have the resources to fight the nfl, which not many have.

HE care about his reputation and will fight these punks tooth and nail and trolls like you will be unhappy.

Yeah, I'm a troll for pointing it out? What I am is a fan of professional football and a long time fan of the Patriots. What I'm not is some suck-up homer who can't see the the forest for the trees.

 

[#12]

Actually "more probable than not" is the standard that the NFL uses to adjudge a persons culpability... my understanding is that it is used in civil proceedings, and loosely means more than 50% probable....

"More probable than not" is the standard of evidence used in the NFL..

My question was is "generally aware" a legal standard.. or just lawyer jargon..

Not my point at all. Yes of course in both meanings 50% probable means 50.01 percent probable, agreed. However, it is the standard of the reasoning to reach the conclusion that differs greatly in court.

In court, it is very difficult to prove something was "more probable than not" with only assumptions and hearsay. In other words, a higher standard than the standard that led to Wells' conclusion here.

 

[patsfan13]

Yeah, I'm a troll for pointing it out? What I am is a fan of professional football and a long time fan of the Patriots. What I'm not is some suck-up homer who can't see the the forest for the trees.

No your a troll for beliving the NFL crap and baiting the members of this forum. Many have noted you are a moron.

 

[patsfan13]

Has there been clarification regarding the issue of the NFL's authority/NFLPA position regarding gaining access to player's personal belongings. The NFLPA allows a player's bodily juices to be confiscated at anytime.....but is a player also required to allow entry/access to their homes/phones/cars/computers as well??

Yeah the NFL has no subpoena power over a players phone as per the CBA.

 

[borg]

Yeah the NFL has no subpoena power over a players phone as per the CBA.

Then the arbiter will dismiss this particular Wells complaint, "Failure to comply", immediately.

 

[DarrylS]

Not my point at all. Yes of course in both meanings 50% probable means 50.01 percent probable, agreed. However, it is the standard of the reasoning to reach the conclusion that differs greatly in court.

In court, assumptions and hearsay to conclude a "more probable than not" outcome is unlikely. In other words, a higher standard than the standard that led to Wells' conclusion here.

Your contention is that "generally aware" is a 50% threshold, and "more probable than not" is also a 50% threshold..combine the two and that is a low standard of evidence..

I am not as familiar with civil proceedings as criminal proceedings, so find that any hearsay or assumptions being admissible is troubling..

 

[tom444]

No your a troll for beliving the NFL crap and baiting the members of this forum. Many have noted you are a moron.

You're the one tossing insults around. You're the blind homer. You're the troll.

 

[Dr Pain]

Not my point at all. Yes of course in both meanings 50% probable means 50.01 percent probable. That's common sense. However, it is the reasoning used behind the conclusions that lead you to that probability.

In court, this would be much more than assumptions and hearsay to conclude a "more probable than not" outcome. In other words, a higher standard than the standard that led to Wells conclusion here.

Any math folks here? What is the percentage of a probable he knew of another a probable of something actually taking place? If it is 50.1% of a 50.1% then I believe mathematically the NFL is arguing that there is a 25.1% chance that Brady knew. 50.1% * 50.1% = 25.1%

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Yes because the NFLPA told players not to cooperate with things like that (pretty sure it's something I've read in the past) - Gostkowski also didn't hand over his phone.

If either of them did it would set a precedent that the league could ask any player to hand over their phones without a warrant.

I do understand the possible consequences, as per NFLPA, of Brady not providing them. And I respect his decision not to do so. My question is, why would Brady's stance now change, presuming his intent is to sue?

 

[borg]

Someone in the know, explain who these NFL arbiters are, who provides them, the role that the NFLPA has in the selection....anything?
Is the arbitration process governed by league standards or legal standards

 

[Dr Pain]

Someone in the know, explain who these NFL arbiters are, who provides them, the role that the NFLPA has in the selection....anything?
Is the arbitration process governed by league standards or legal standards

Unfortunately not great but they have regularly smacked the NFL http://deadspin.com/judge-finds-that-nfl-arbitration-has-potential-for-ver-1453563122

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

SInce Brady didn't do anything wrong yes the NFL has far more to lose in the discovery process also this is be in a court proceeding so leaks from the NFL FO will be handled very differently the judge will kill if the nfl is inappropriate information is leaked. Goodell won't allow himself to be exposed like that.

I am not sure what you mean by the underlined sentence. If issued a subpoena, Godell wouldn't have a choice.

Or, are you saying for fear of this happening, Godell isn't going to issue a penalty in all of this?

 

[Dr Pain]

Also this gem http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...tral-arbitration-in-ray-rice-appeal/16449659/

"The NFL has agreed to neutral arbitration for Ray Rice's appeal — a decision the head of the players union is touting as an important precedent for future cases.

In an e-mail to players Monday, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith said the sides have exchanged names of potential arbitrators for the appeal of Rice's indefinite suspension, which the union has claimed was a violation of due process while subjecting Rice to double jeopardy.

Normally, appeals of suspensions under the personal conduct policy would be heard by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, who also hands out the suspensions. But the Rice situation is unique since Goodell's decision to increase his ban from two games is at the heart of the matter.

"For the first time ever, the league in the Rice Appeal, has agreed to use a neutral arbitrator which is being selected in discussions with the NFLPA," Smith wrote in his e-mail. "The league has submitted names to us, and we have submitted names to the league; we will confer with the league shortly regarding the final choice of an appeals arbitrator."

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Brady hands over phone & NFL Office leaks messages...

"Hey Giselle, honey. I got those sex toys you wanted. Be ready when I get home after my workout"