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Still a SB chance after losing Gronk?

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Can they still win the SB?


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manning has repeatedly beaten up rex ryan style defenses. Chiefs defensive coordinator is a ryan disciple and see what he did to them.
Bengals and broncos are two different teams. Ryan's scheme is very stubborn about stopping the run. BB's defense gives manning more trouble.
Bob Sutton is not a Rex Ryan disciple, he was Mangini's DC in New Jersey.
 
This discussion started with the claim that the Bengals would take the #2 seed away. We play 3 teams with records of 7-6,7-6 and 4-9 and they play 3 teams with records of 7-6, 5-8, 3-9-1.
I think that the excpetional history of being prpeared for December football is certainly a factor in predicting whether the Bengals will make up a game on us in those 3 weeks. You appear to think the organizations are equal at this point.

They are not equal. Pats are a better organization with a better QB and better coach.No argument. Doesnt mean our injuries dont hurt us and having healthy players for the bengals along with the schedule doesnt give them an advantage. I like the fight and mental toughness of this team but you need healthy good players. Look at last yr. Pats almost never lose a AFCCG game at home and that too to the ravens but we missed gronk big time in that game along with talib going down. It wasnt because of january history but we missed that critical player + talib got injured . We can be the most prepared team we want to be but we need players healthy.
Even this yr,we dont know how long AD and KT are going to be out and we are rely on them to be the difference makers right now.
 
I never want to say that the Pats are toast, but factoring their past success in the playoffs with a healthier team and inability to make appropriate adjustments, combined with the slew of injuries on the defensive side and now Gronk....I'm afraid I'm not too optimistic about their chances.
 
If there's one thing I've learned from this Pats team, its that it's not over until it's over. We still have as good of a shot as anyone.
 
I think he served under Rex also .

He was demoted from DC and spent a couple years as an assistant. In no way was he a 'disciple' of Rex Ryan.
 
They are not equal. Pats are a better organization with a better QB and better coach.No argument. Doesnt mean our injuries dont hurt us and having healthy players for the bengals along with the schedule doesnt give them an advantage. I like the fight and mental toughness of this team but you need healthy good players. Look at last yr. Pats almost never lose a AFCCG game at home and that too to the ravens but we missed gronk big time in that game along with talib going down. It wasnt because of january history but we missed that critical player + talib got injured . We can be the most prepared team we want to be but we need players healthy.
Even this yr,we dont know how long AD and KT are going to be out and we are rely on them to be the difference makers right now.

My point stands, that the way BB runs the team leads to them being successful this time of year, so their record in December is relevant.
 
I never want to say that the Pats are toast, but factoring their past success in the playoffs with a healthier team and inability to make appropriate adjustments, combined with the slew of injuries on the defensive side and now Gronk....I'm afraid I'm not too optimistic about their chances.

I get your point, but the bolded part is ridiculous. The Patriots under BB are renowned as the masters of making adjustments. Just because unhappy fans chose that as the rhetorical reason to hang blame for a loss doesn't make it real.
 
Well the only way I see us going to the Super Bowl is if we can further strengthen the run game. I don't see the O-Line getting any better which hinders the passing game. I'd like to think the secondary will get healthier but I am too used to it getting more injured as opposed to less.

The road to the Super Bowl will be an old fashioned NFC type ball control / gain field position / win the battle of the clock type of game. I think we have yet to see our ultimate ground game both by them running and catching short passes. I think without Gronk we have already seen our peak passing game and the rookies still have the wall to look forward to.
 
All these nagging nabobs of negativism ...
 
All these nagging nabobs of negativism ...
It's not about just getting through the playoffs and to the Super Bowl but about winning the Super Bowl. Without Gronk, we've seen the historic difficulty of that across the past few seasons. To me, that isn't being negative more being realistic.
 
sorry to nitpick but cleveland is not a top 10 d. they may be in yardage, but points, red zone, 3rd down, turnovers, they are closer to the bottom than the top.

My buddy is a Cleveland fan so I've been paying a bit of attention to them and I think you need to look beyond just the box score numbers. For example, points aren't really a fair metric either, unless you're arguing the Pats are a top 10 D.

And while this defense is near the bottom in third down D, part of that is due to a horrible start. In the last 4 weeks, they've allowed 18 of 59, which would put them at the top of the league.

As for turnovers, does that correlate with a top D? Considering Tampa Bay (#1) and Dallas (#5) are both in the top 5, I don't think that's truly the best way to evaluate a top defense either.

So first look at the talent. They have a shutdown corner in Joe Haden, a talented front 7 with depth led by first-rounders Phil Taylor and Barkevious Mingo, 2nd-rounder Jabaal Sheard, captain D'Qwell Jackson and old foe Paul Kruger, and it's no wonder they're in the top 10 in sacks.

The Cleveland offense is absolutely putrid and puts this defense in a lot of bad spots. Their offense is in the bottom 10 in yards per play and 3rd down conversions as well as turnovers, which results in the 6th-worst TOP leading to a lot of extra time for the defense on the field.

A good example of this was last week's game against the Jaguars. They were up 14-7 with three minutes to go before halftime when Weeden throws a pick on their side of the field returned into the red zone which is quickly converted into a TD and a tie game. They get the ball back, and Weeden throws another INT at their 28, leading to a FG. They get the ball back, make a few throws, then Weeden takes a sack and fumbles, giving the Jaguars one last play to kick a FG and go up 20-14 instead of trailing 14-7. The Browns would later fumble in their end zone for a safety. The ensuing punt is returned 31 yards setting up the Jaguars on the Browns side of the field where they kick another FG. The Browns would score one play later on the 95-yarder to Josh Gordon, giving the defense 19 seconds of rest before they would go out to defend that last drive where the Jaguars clinched the game.

They held the Jaguars to 4.4 yards per play. Chad Henne only completed 55% of his passes. While the third down defense wasn't great (7 of 16), they were 2 of 4 in the red zone. But there's no overcoming that offense.

The week before that, they trailed Pittsburgh 10-3 with two minutes to go before halftime. Their RB fumbles near midfield and Pittsburgh converts for a FG. On their second drive of the 3rd quarter, the offense is moving until Campbell is sacked and fumbles, allowing the Steelers to return the ball all the way to the 4. Then they punch it in for another 7. The last 7 came via pick 6 by Brandon Weeden.

They held the Steelers to 4.4 yards per play, 4 of 14 on 3rd down, and 1 of 2 in the red zone. But they weren't even close to being in this game, trailing 27-3 until with 3:17 left in the 4th, they score a garbage TD and 2-point conversion.

The week before that, Cincinnati posted 41 points on this defense despite Andy Dalton only throwing for 93 yards and completing less than half his passes. The Browns D even managed to return a pick 6 to help the team to an early 7-3 lead.

Then Weeden throws a pick 6 himself, only a penalty nullifies the TD and puts the ball at the Cleveland 22 where they convert for a TD. The offense goes 3 and out, then the punt is blocked and goes 9 yards to the Cleveland 38, which is converted into another TD. After another 3 and out, the defense forces Cincy into a 3 and out. The Browns start moving the ball but the drive stalls, so they punt again, and have it blocked again, but this time for a TD. On their next possession, Campbell throws a pick 6. Cincy would pick up a FG after getting the ball on the 48, and another FG after a sack fumble at the Cleveland 21.

The Bengals, who are in the top 10 in 3rd-down conversions, were 1 of 14 on 3rd down. The Browns defense got a pick 6, another INT, held the Bengals to 3.8 yards per play, and still got killed.

They haven't given up a 300-yard passer until Brady and haven't allowed a 100-yard rusher all season.

So yes, I think they're a top 10 defense that is saddled with a bottom 10 offense. The NE game was one of the few times the offense played well this entire season.
 
If we can still snag that bye, I think there is certainly a chance to pull off three in a row. We've seen worse teams get to the SB starting at the wild card. I know a lot of people are throwing in the towel, but there is a whole team that believes they can overcome any adversity. They've shown it time and time again this season.
 
So yes, I think they're a top 10 defense that is saddled with a bottom 10 offense. The NE game was one of the few times the offense played well this entire season.

Obviously you know your Browns. I can't say I have watched much of them this year so I was just going by the numbers. I do recognize they have talented guys on D, and do need some help from their offense. I bet if Weeden didn't start so many games for them, they would be contending for a wild card.
 
I get your point, but the bolded part is ridiculous. The Patriots under BB are renowned as the masters of making adjustments. Just because unhappy fans chose that as the rhetorical reason to hang blame for a loss doesn't make it real.

Call it whatever you want, but if they would've made the "appropriate adjustments" in two excruciatingly close SB losses and two AFCCG losses then would you argue that they could have and should have won. I'm not faulting BB solely for it because obviously execution is far more important, but I don't feel very confident in this team's chances based on the injuries to the players on defense more than to Gronkowski.
 
Honestly? Probably not. But I will be watching and hoping, no matter what happens.

I just still feel a bit shaken and hollow. Some of that is the win but mostly it's the loss of Gronk. Colossal bummer.

It will be interesting to see what McDaniels does in this situation - how he looks to RBs to serve as pass catchers and may keep others in for pass protection - and how diverse the offense winds up looking.

McDaniels/Brady are, IMO, going to need to establish a diverse, spread offense that constantly leaves Ds off kilter. Prior to yesterday Ds knew they could simply key in on Gronkowski and Edelman - though in both cases were still unable to stop them.

If McDaniels is smart he'll take advantage of the fact that Ds now generally don't know what's coming their way.

That's my hope anyways.
 
I voted the middle option about the puncher's chance like in '01.

It will definitely, absolutely, 100% come down to whether or not we secure the bye however. No more of this silly talk that it's not needed, etc.

If we have 2 weeks to prepare for one home game, we can certainly have a chance to win at and get to the AFCCG. From there, anything can happen, and there's even the prospect of DEN losing to someone beforehand--even if it's a remote one.

That all said, it's amazing that we're 10-3 at this point. There really isn't one area where the team is stronger than the past couple/few years, aside from the kicker Gostkowski. The QB, OL, RB, TE, WR, DL, LB, CB, and S play are all below the standard of the past couple of years--although it does seem as though we have more luck this season and that's a great thing to have.
 
Who is this "Vareen" that everyone is depending on to replace Gronk?

 
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