State of the Teams: New York Jets

[WhiZa]

One thing is for sure... the jets will get a great pick in next year's draft. April 2010 can't come soon enough!

 

[Ring 6]

Hmmm wholesale changes like...changing the head coach and QB? With the information available I can believe that the Jets haven't gotten worse. I think the loss of Favre is addition by subtraction, I think Favre lost the Jets more games than he won them. If Sanchez can be a game manager and the Jets run the football and play good defense I don't think they will be under .500, I believe that either they will split with both the Bills and Dolphins or they will sweep one of the two.

No, wholesale changes like changing the entire FRONT OFFICE, and a ton of personel, IN ADDITION TO HC and QB.
I think you are out of your mind expecting Sanchez to be better than Favre. Favre had a few poor games, but for the most part, when they won, they won because of his passing. If Sanchez starts from day 1 he will be one of the 5 worst QBs in the NFL. Doesn't mean he sucks, but he will be overmatched as a rookie. Most of them are.

 

[PatsDparty]

Not sure why everyone assumes they will have a dominant defense. Baltimore's D was dominant well before Rex ever took over, and past Baltimore defensive coordinators have failed to have the same success (Lewis, Nolan), not only as head coaches, but in particular turning around defenses.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Where did I say they will have a dominant defense? - I think they will have a very formidable one and one that will probably be ranked within the top 10 best defenses,They do have some weaknesses but a load of talent as well - If those talented players playas they should only a blind man would see they will be pretty tough - Will a strong Defense drastically improve a team in 1 year? - I certainly think it COULD.

I really wish you would stop referring back to what teams did in previous years - its irrelevant.

No, last year is very relevant. In fact, the basis of this entire thread is the change from last year to this year (see first post).

I don't see how you can ignore the actual performance of the Jets defense last year which many (including you) would seem to characterize as dominant. The Jets defense was not dominant last year, it was average as the stats show.

Having talented players in the NFL is no sure indication of having a good team. Bill Belichick has often gotten it done with less than talented players. (If you doubt this, look at how well former Patriots play with their new teams.) It takes good coaching to make it all come together.

History shows that the talented Jets players on defense haven't really gotten their act together to become an above average defense. If you wish to claim that this is going to change, it would be helpful if you had solid reasons other than saying that they are talented and underachieved in the past. Since they've underachieved before, there is every reason to believe that they'll underachieve again.

Personally, I doubt that Ryan will be able to turn the Jets around but I don't have a solid foundation for that belief - only a bias against the Ryan coaching line. It would be no great shock to discover I'm wrong. But even if I am wrong about his coaching, the Jets offense seems weak enough that even a good defense won't do much more than get them to .500.

 

[TruthSeeker]

No, wholesale changes like changing the entire FRONT OFFICE, and a ton of personel, IN ADDITION TO HC and QB.
I think you are out of your mind expecting Sanchez to be better than Favre. Favre had a few poor games, but for the most part, when they won, they won because of his passing. If Sanchez starts from day 1 he will be one of the 5 worst QBs in the NFL. Doesn't mean he sucks, but he will be overmatched as a rookie. Most of them are.

I would agree that it would be highly unlikely that Sanchez could match Favre's performance last year. First year NFL QBs just have way too much to learn. And it's not like Sanchez got a thorough QB education in college...

 

[BradyManny]

Outlook:

With the quarterbacks struggling, and with one of the weakest wide receiving corps in the NFL, the Jets offense could be miserable this season. The offensive line isn't terrible, but it's nowhere near as good as it should be when you consider the individual players. This team is going to need to see rapid progress from the QB position, or the Jets season could be over early. The team's first 4 games are against Houston, New England, Tennessee and New Orleans. With Pace missing those games and the Jets being on the road against the Texans, New York could very well be the underdog in all 4 games. An 0-4 start is not out of the realm of possibility, and 2009 could quickly become a lost season for the Jets if things don't break in the team's favor early.


Prediction:

I don't expect a double digit win season from the Jets. In fact, I don't expect them to finish above .500. The combination of a difficult schedule, a weak receiving corps and inexperience at the QB position will sink the team's playoff hopes. 8 wins may be generous. A season with as few as 5 wins would not shock me.

Great stuff Deus - and definitely a good call to do at this time of the year.

I agree with your assessment. I don't see the Jets as a threat this season, and a 5-11 team wouldn't surprise me either. The defense will be tough, sure, but I also don't have a lot of faith in Sanchez or the wideouts. Even adding Burress wouldn't do it for me, this team is going to struggle until Sanchez can run an NFL offense.

In other news, I really hate Sanchez and can't believe the media has so flippantly dismissed his character issues (ie, the sexual assault).

 

[jmt57]

Another opinion on the AFC East and the Jets in particular; this one by Peter Schrager of Fox Sports:

Jets fans were confused and distraught to see Gholston on the field in only rare instances last season, lining up for rare packages and barely getting in on special teams. Whereas fellow 2008 first-round picks Jerod Mayo and Keith Rivers excelled at linebacker in their rookie seasons, Gholston struggled. Immensely.

They'll need him, too. The Jets face a tougher four-game slate to start the season than any other team in the league. Up against Houston, New England, Tennessee and New Orleans — four dynamo offenses — in the first quarter of the season, Gholston's production will be necessary.

And if not? Well, Pace returns in Week 5. Hopefully by then, the Jets aren't already 0-4.

continue reading ...

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Perhaps you misunderstand.
First both of those teams made wholesale changes and didnt really resemble the year before.
Secondly, a debate about predictions is only as good as the information available at the time. If someone said the Dolphins would be 11-5 because anything can happen, would be right due to dumb luck. If someone foresaw the reasons why that something so unpredictable could happen, then they would be right because they understood and predicted well.
To say the Jets will win 9-10 games because you have a feeling, and dismiss the accountability to show WHY and HOW they have improved, and I suppose, improved TREMENDOUSLY to do better with a rookie at QB, means that you want to throw it against the wall and rley on luck.

In other words, I could ignore every fact and pick a number from 1-16 out of a hat for every team, and then when someone asks me how the Lions got a 10, I'll say, remember the Dolphins, last year means nothing. Does it really matter in that case whether i was right or wrong?

The point of debate (which is one of the primary functions of a board like this) is to make a statement then try to make it hold up to scrutiny. You seem to want every statement you make to be accepted regardless of its logic. Why bother writing it if you dont want feedback, or a challenge to support it?

I will make this short - The only team I could say right now that has NO shot of winning 9 or more games would be the Lions since they had so many holes to fill that it is impossible for them to make a turnaround so soon.

In a league which is getting more parity driven every year with star players bouncing from one team to another,I can't count out ANY team in July for winning 9 or 10 games...including the Jets


You keep on doing your crystal ball prediction which you are self-assured is correct based on last season and I will just sit back and let the season unfold for the Jets and all the other teams who are all 0-0 right now.

BTW: I love to welcome arguments for anyone that also respects what they hear from someone who does not agree with them,thats what this forum SHOULD be but rarily is because even when both sides submit arguments the other still finds a way to shoot it down and say they are wrong so why would I waste my time doing that page after page and make a thread 300 posts long?

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

What did this Jets team do well? Run block. That's it. However, they still didn't run any better than the Patriots last year. Last season the Jets threw to set up the run. They had that threat. This season they won't. The Ravens and Falcons were able to run at will. Look at the Runs-for-1st-down stats. The top three. NE, Bal, Atl. Where did the Jets rank? Twenty second. So now this one dimenional offense becomes zero dimentional.

 

[Ring 6]

I will make this short - The only team I could say right now that has NO shot of winning 9 or more games would be the Lions since they had so many holes to fill that it is impossible for them to make a turnaround so soon.

In a league which is getting more parity driven every year with star players bouncing from one team to another,I can't count out ANY team in July for winning 9 or 10 games...including the Jets


You keep on doing your crystal ball prediction which you are self-assured is correct based on last season and I will just sit back and let the season unfold for the Jets and all the other teams who are all 0-0 right now.

BTW: I love to welcome arguments for anyone that also respects what they hear from someone who does not agree with them,thats what this forum SHOULD be but rarily is because even when both sides submit arguments the other still finds a way to shoot it down and say they are wrong so why would I waste my time doing that page after page and make a thread 300 posts long?

You really arent making sense to me.
Your BTW says that you welcome back and forth, but everytime someone disagrees with you instead of addressing the disagreement, you tell them they have no right to disagree, think they are always right, or call them homers.
Perhaps, I have missed it, but for the most part, all I have seen is you post, someone respond and you reply with indignation that they didnt accept what you said.

In the main text of your post you have gone back to responding to YOU making a prediciton that was disagreed with by saying its pointless to make predictions.

The point was 'what do you think the Jets will do this year' and the implication was WHY do you think that. It wasn't how many wins or losses can you rule them out of. It wasn't an exercise in making a life or death prediction that had to be right.

There is no one, anywhere, who can accurately predict what every team will do. I would even submit that no one, without blind luck, could predict all of the playoff teams, and playoff results up to the SB winner. That doesnt mean, though, that if we are discssing our belief of how a team will play this year that 'the Falcons went from bad to good' is a legitimate argument (unless you show similarities.)

Unless I am out in left field, the point of this type of debate is for everyone to get their opinion out there so that readers can see all viewpoints. It would be assinine of anyone to think they are right about all 53 players, each unit, etc about any team, so I don't understand the vitriol at disagreement.

 

[jmt57]

Looks like a lot of Jets fans think 7-9 sounds about right.

ProFootball Weekly 2009 Preview... Jets dead last - TheGangGreen.com Message Board

 

[JaxPats]

What a hapless bunch they are. Sad, but, I'M LUVIN IT!!!!!!!!:singing Year after year after year. Farve, Mangini, Ryan, and a cast of thousands. It's just like watching a sitcom. I can't wait for the premier this season.:lol2::lol2::woohoo::cool2:

 

[livinginthe past]

You really arent making sense to me.
Your BTW says that you welcome back and forth, but everytime someone disagrees with you instead of addressing the disagreement, you tell them they have no right to disagree, think they are always right, or call them homers.
Perhaps, I have missed it, but for the most part, all I have seen is you post, someone respond and you reply with indignation that they didnt accept what you said.

In the main text of your post you have gone back to responding to YOU making a prediciton that was disagreed with by saying its pointless to make predictions.

The point was 'what do you think the Jets will do this year' and the implication was WHY do you think that. It wasn't how many wins or losses can you rule them out of. It wasn't an exercise in making a life or death prediction that had to be right.

There is no one, anywhere, who can accurately predict what every team will do. I would even submit that no one, without blind luck, could predict all of the playoff teams, and playoff results up to the SB winner. That doesnt mean, though, that if we are discssing our belief of how a team will play this year that 'the Falcons went from bad to good' is a legitimate argument (unless you show similarities.)

Unless I am out in left field, the point of this type of debate is for everyone to get their opinion out there so that readers can see all viewpoints. It would be assinine of anyone to think they are right about all 53 players, each unit, etc about any team, so I don't understand the vitriol at disagreement.

Andy,

There isn't a great deal of point in trying to ram home the logic of your position on this guy.

He just doesn't get it...and I doubt he'll 'get it' anytime soon.

Its obvious he likes to make wild, unsubstantiated predictions on the basis that it could happen.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

You really arent making sense to me.
Your BTW says that you welcome back and forth, but everytime someone disagrees with you instead of addressing the disagreement, you tell them they have no right to disagree, think they are always right, or call them homers.
Perhaps, I have missed it, but for the most part, all I have seen is you post, someone respond and you reply with indignation that they didnt accept what you said.

In the main text of your post you have gone back to responding to YOU making a prediciton that was disagreed with by saying its pointless to make predictions.

The point was 'what do you think the Jets will do this year' and the implication was WHY do you think that. It wasn't how many wins or losses can you rule them out of. It wasn't an exercise in making a life or death prediction that had to be right.

There is no one, anywhere, who can accurately predict what every team will do. I would even submit that no one, without blind luck, could predict all of the playoff teams, and playoff results up to the SB winner. That doesnt mean, though, that if we are discssing our belief of how a team will play this year that 'the Falcons went from bad to good' is a legitimate argument (unless you show similarities.)

Unless I am out in left field, the point of this type of debate is for everyone to get their opinion out there so that readers can see all viewpoints. It would be assinine of anyone to think they are right about all 53 players, each unit, etc about any team, so I don't understand the vitriol at disagreement.

I think the main reason why I am having a disagreement with you is the simple reason that no one should evaluate a team based solely on what they did last season,there will always be good players that leave,good players that arrive and coaches that come and go as well and the Jets are in that catagory all the way - I simply think Ryan will instantly be a better coach than Mangini and that is not that hard to do.

I think as fans know, there are ALWAYS several teams that surprise and exceed expectations every season and since I have watched the NFL for the past 30 years there is always at least 2 or 3 teams every year that no one expects to improve and they do.

The Jets just happen to be a team that I think will be overall better than they were last year - Are they a SB Contender? - No since it would be hard for Sanchez to take this team with little on the receiver side deep into the playoffs but that does not mean they have no shot at 9 wins and maybe 10,I think if you have a good defense which on paper they look pretty good,that can hide a less than average offense as we all know defense wins most games.

Now if the Jets can somehow make a blockbuster unexpected trade and get Chad Johnson or some great talented or even gamble with Plaxico if he is allowed to play,then I think their chances to get 10 wins,even with Sanchez go up dramatically.

I think the Jets weakness is on the offensive receiving side, otherwise there is a lot of talent on that roster,they have a good offensive line and solid RBs - How Ryan gets these guys to blend together and how long it would take for positive things to happen remains to be seen.

 

[Ring 6]

I think the main reason why I am having a disagreement with you is the simple reason that no one should evaluate a team based solely on what they did last season,there will always be good players that leave,good players that arrive and coaches that come and go as well and the Jets are in that catagory all the way - I simply think Ryan will instantly be a better coach than Mangini and that is not that hard to do.

I think as fans know, there are ALWAYS several teams that surprise and exceed expectations every season and since I have watched the NFL for the past 30 years there is always at least 2 or 3 teams every year that no one expects to improve and they do.

The Jets just happen to be a team that I think will be overall better than they were last year - Are they a SB Contender? - No since it would be hard for Sanchez to take this team with little on the receiver side deep into the playoffs but that does not mean they have no shot at 9 wins and maybe 10,I think if you have a good defense which on paper they look pretty good,that can hide a less than average offense as we all know defense wins most games.

Now if the Jets can somehow make a blockbuster unexpected trade and get Chad Johnson or some great talented or even gamble with Plaxico if he is allowed to play,then I think their chances to get 10 wins,even with Sanchez go up dramatically.

I think the Jets weakness is on the offensive receiving side, otherwise there is a lot of talent on that roster,they have a good offensive line and solid RBs - How Ryan gets these guys to blend together and how long it would take for positive things to happen remains to be seen.

Yes, teams change. That fact isnt the reason Team X will improve, though. That argument could be used for any team regardless of whether those changes are positive or not.
I think your dislike for Mangini is coloring your view. Mangini took a 4-12 and had 2 winning seasons in 3. To say Rex Ryan with no track record will do better, because thats not hard, is quesitonable at best. Ryan is overrated. Why he is considered a better defensive coach than Eric Mangini is beyond me.
Ryan is as likely to be awful as he is to be good, and Eric Mangini like him or not did a good job there.

You keep saying that all of their flaws doesnt mean they have no shot at 9-10 wins, but that isnt the point, the point is you EXPECT THEM to win 9-10 games.
Having some chance to win 9-10 games is a far cry from being likely to win 9-10 games.

I don't happen to agree that the Jets are extremely talented. I'm not as impressed with their OL as many. Faneca is good, Mangold is good, but I'm not impressed by the rest of the unit. WR is weak. RB is average IMO. QB will be bottom 5.
Defensively, the DL is poor IMO. I don't accept that a part time player who is good for a month changes that. The LB corps is average. The secondary is overrated.
This is why last year matters. The Jets defense is OVERRATED. People think it was good last year and it was average at best, and certainly yhe worst in the AFCE. You are proclaiming that its defense has risen from worst in the division to good enough to win 9-10 games with a below average offense. I simply don't see how that could be.

 

[Ring 6]

I think the main reason why I am having a disagreement with you is the simple reason that no one should evaluate a team based solely on what they did last season,there will always be good players that leave,good players that arrive and coaches that come and go as well and the Jets are in that catagory all the way - I simply think Ryan will instantly be a better coach than Mangini and that is not that hard to do.

I think as fans know, there are ALWAYS several teams that surprise and exceed expectations every season and since I have watched the NFL for the past 30 years there is always at least 2 or 3 teams every year that no one expects to improve and they do.

The Jets just happen to be a team that I think will be overall better than they were last year - Are they a SB Contender? - No since it would be hard for Sanchez to take this team with little on the receiver side deep into the playoffs but that does not mean they have no shot at 9 wins and maybe 10,I think if you have a good defense which on paper they look pretty good,that can hide a less than average offense as we all know defense wins most games.

Now if the Jets can somehow make a blockbuster unexpected trade and get Chad Johnson or some great talented or even gamble with Plaxico if he is allowed to play,then I think their chances to get 10 wins,even with Sanchez go up dramatically.

I think the Jets weakness is on the offensive receiving side, otherwise there is a lot of talent on that roster,they have a good offensive line and solid RBs - How Ryan gets these guys to blend together and how long it would take for positive things to happen remains to be seen.

By the way, I am not at all evaluating them solely on what they did last season. I am comparing them to last season and see them as substantially worse.

I see a tremendous downgrade in the offense with the dropoff at QB and WR overwhelming the talent they may have at other positions.
I see a defense that has not changed much, but must adapt to a different system. Its a misconception that its a 34 so its the same defense. They have gone from a 2gap 34 to a 1gap 34. That is a bigger change than going from a 2gap 34 to a 2gap 43, much bigger.
I see a likley downgrade at coach. At the least Mangini was better than average, as indicated by 2 winning seasons in 3 years. Ryan has no track record and is as likely to be awful as he is good. If he were replacing a poor coach, it would most likely be an upgrade if he were replacing a good coach, most likely a downgrade, and Manigini was more good than bad.

So, your point that I am basing everything on last year is wrong. I am starting from what the NYJ did last year, and adjusting for improvement or decline that I see.

 

[jmt57]

Just for a point of reference, here is a list of the Jets additions (and subtractions)

Jets offseason moves

HC: Rex Ryan (Eric Mangini)

QB: Mark Sanchez (Brett Favre, Bret Ratliff)
RB: Shonn Greene (Noah Herron, Marcus Mason)
WR: Mario Urrutia (Laveranues Coles)
TE: (Chris Baker)
OL: Matt Slauson

DL: Marques Douglas, Howard Green (CJ Mosley, Kenyon Coleman)
ILB: Bart Scott, Larry Izzo (David Bowens, Brad Kassell, Cody Spencer, Eric Barton)
S: Jim Leonhard (David Barrett, Hank Poteat, Abram Elam)
CB: Lito Sheppard, Donald Strickland

 

[Rob0729]

Personally, I think the Jets are already in rebuilding mode eventhough they have been building to be a winner for the last few years. I am not as impressed with their dfense as others and they are painfully thin which may be very exposed with Calvin Pace missing the first four games. People say if Ryan and Flacco can bring their team to the playoffs, why not Sanchez. Except Sanchez has only started one season and is not as polished as those two QBs (even Pete Carroll stated he wasn't ready before backing off his comments). I don't think the RB corp is as good as Atlanta's and Cotchery isn't Roddy White who has proven that the only thing that held him back from being a first round talent his first few years was Michael Vick. And this Jets' defense is certainly not the Ravens' defense in terms of talent.

I expect the Jets to get probably between 6-8 wins with a very outside chance of 9 wins. I expect them to start the season either 1-3 or 0-4 and be trying to dig themselves out of that hole all season.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Just for a point of reference, here is a list of the Jets additions (and subtractions)

Jets offseason moves

HC: Rex Ryan (Eric Mangini)

QB: Mark Sanchez (Brett Favre, Bret Ratliff)
RB: Shonn Greene (Noah Herron, Marcus Mason)
WR: Mario Urrutia (Laveranues Coles)
TE: (Chris Baker)
OL: Matt Slauson

DL: Marques Douglas, Howard Green (CJ Mosley, Kenyon Coleman)
ILB: Bart Scott, Larry Izzo (David Bowens, Brad Kassell, Cody Spencer, Eric Barton)
S: Jim Leonhard (David Barrett, Hank Poteat, Abram Elam)
CB: Lito Sheppard, Donald Strickland

Leonhard is not an unknown to the AFCE, he was a reserve Safety for the Bills before going to Baltimore. I like the kid, but I also like Antwain Spann who will have a tough time making the NE roster. Lito Sheppard is pretty good, but he's also an injury risk after the past couple seasons.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

the jets are going to try to pound out games by running the ball 50-60 times..........problem is that they did little to resolve their biggest problem which is defending the short passing game.........their LB's simply can't cover and its not something bart scott can fix by himself.......

everyone will constantly be playing 8 in the box and maybe even 9

the defense isn't any younger and got tired down the stretch last year