State of the Teams: New York Jets

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Dec 6th

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Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
Its very easy to take a medicore team, then say everything that left was bad and everything that is stil here was great. Its just not true.
I know its not unique to this board, but there are many fans who trash everyone as soon as they leave, and overrate every new arrival. It makes them feel better. You seem to be our Jet version.
 

BradyFTW!

Goodell sucks
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OK, if we are digressing to judging the quality of a team based on the probowl voting process, we might was well start discussing the opera.
You agree Favre is a joke on that list.
That leaves you a s/ter, 3 offensive players and 2 defensive players.
If you seriously think that 5 players can determine the quality of a team, you have no clue what you are talking about.
Medicority in a football team comes from the middle and bottom of the roster, not the 5 top players.
I can name 5 good players on any medicore team.

Where was that talent in the last 5 weeks? I dont think a team that is 'better than medicore' is capable of finishing a season 1-4.

Hahaha, I just tried to find 8 good players on the Lions' roster to prove the point, but I couldn't. That's the exception, though.
 

K-Ro 25

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Its very easy to take a medicore team, then say everything that left was bad and everything that is stil here was great. Its just not true.
I know its not unique to this board, but there are many fans who trash everyone as soon as they leave, and overrate every new arrival. It makes them feel better. You seem to be our Jet version.
Pending this question, I will continue posting in response to you. Do you think the Jets were a mediocre talent team last year? I mean when at full health

You cant say I flopped on Mangini b/c I hated him the year before. On game day he is clueless. If you could ask my friends they will tell you I have been consistent on wanting Mangini out through good and bad. I wanted him fired even after we beat the Pats if that doesnt show you how much I hate him.
 
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Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
Pending this question, I will continue posting in response to you. Do you think the Jets were a mediocre talent team last year? I mean when at full health

You cant say I flopped on Mangini b/c I hated him the year before. On game day he is clueless. If you could ask my friends they will tell you I have been consistent on wanting Mangini out through good and bad. I wanted him fired even after we beat the Pats if that doesnt show you how much I hate him.

Yes, I think the Jets were thoroughly average last year.
And they performed just that way.
Defensively, I cant think of a more average team.
Offensively, I'd say they had the potential to be better than average, and at times certainly were, but their clutch play doomed them to mediocrity.
I think you need to look at the season as 16 games, not pick out the ones you like and say you are that good and the ones you don't like are an aberation

I have no clue what you thought about Mangini before last year, I just know in this thread you give him no credit for 8-3 and all the blame for 1-4 and thats not rational.
 

K-Ro 25

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Yes, I think the Jets were thoroughly average last year.
And they performed just that way.
Defensively, I cant think of a more average team.
Offensively, I'd say they had the potential to be better than average, and at times certainly were, but their clutch play doomed them to mediocrity.
I think you need to look at the season as 16 games, not pick out the ones you like and say you are that good and the ones you don't like are an aberation

I have no clue what you thought about Mangini before last year, I just know in this thread you give him no credit for 8-3 and all the blame for 1-4 and thats not rational.
I didnt ask the production, I asked for their prospects talent wise to suggest the under performance by the head coach. Be real, mangini had more then an average team.

At this point im going to respectfully disagree that the Jets were an average team talent wise last year. Average teams have a pro bowl kick returner and playmaker on offense, the leagues leading rusher who was top 5 in TD's, 2 solid WR's, a good o-line, a top 5 CB, a top 5 DT when healthy, a playmaking safety and a good 3-4 OLB?
 
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Metaphors

In the Starting Line-Up
A mediocre team w/ the following pro bowl players: Revis, Mangold, Jenkins, Washington, Faneca, Jones, Favre (its a joke he made the pro bowl but up until the titans game he was a deserving player), the Jets were not a mediocre team last year w/ the talent they possessed.

Revis is solid and getting better.
Washington is a niche player but is excellent at what he does.
Mangold really does a good job and is still easy on the cap.

...but...

Faneca is still a fine player but has a lot of wear on the tires (and 30+ mill left on his contract) and made the pro bowl last year mostly on reputation, not stellar play.
Jenkins is one cheeseburger away from generating his own gravitational pull. He dies late in games and is useless late in the season. The Panthers tired of his act and you will too.
Even the Jets don't like Jones anymore.

Sounds pretty mediocre to me.

Good observation. The eagles also get a 2nd rd'er from us if we pickup the option. What probably will happen is that if he is good we will try and work out a new deal w/ him to sign day one of FA. At worst were trading a 5th rd'er and using 3 mil to take a shot on a once pro bowl corner.

Love the Sheppard deal for the Jets. I think it turns out one of 2 ways:

- He doesn't live up to expectations but still provides good depth for 2009, then moves on in 2010.
- Free from a situation in Philly that he clearly didn't like, he plays up to his potential and pairs with Revis to give the Jets dynamic CBs for the next several years.

I'm inclined to think the latter will be the case.
 

K-Ro 25

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Revis is solid and getting better.
Washington is a niche player but is excellent at what he does.
Mangold really does a good job and is still easy on the cap.

...but...

Faneca is still a fine player but has a lot of wear on the tires (and 30+ mill left on his contract) and made the pro bowl last year mostly on reputation, not stellar play.
Jenkins is one cheeseburger away from generating his own gravitational pull. He dies late in games and is useless late in the season. The Panthers tired of his act and you will too.
Even the Jets don't like Jones anymore.

Sounds pretty mediocre to me.



Love the Sheppard deal for the Jets. I think it turns out one of 2 ways:

- He doesn't live up to expectations but still provides good depth for 2009, then moves on in 2010.
- Free from a situation in Philly that he clearly didn't like, he plays up to his potential and pairs with Revis to give the Jets dynamic CBs for the next several years.

I'm inclined to think the latter will be the case.
I agree on the second part. Revis is a lot more then solid lol. Jenkins was a beast for 11 games which is a lot more then can be said for 85 % of the DT's in football. If you feel the Jets are a mediocre talent team you are entitled to your opinion
 
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Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
I didnt ask the production, I asked for their prospects talent wise to suggest the under performance by the head coach. Be real, mangini had more then an average team.

At this point im going to respectfully disagree that the Jets were an average team talent wise last year. Average teams have a pro bowl kick returner and playmaker on offense, the leagues leading rusher who was top 5 in TD's, 2 solid WR's, a good o-line, a top 5 CB, a top 5 DT when healthy, a playmaking safety and a good 3-4 OLB?

YOUR average team had
Pro bowl KR
A 1300 yard rusher
mediocre WRs (show me 20 starting AFC WRs they are better than, that would roughly qualify them as better than mediocre....top 12 of 32)
A decent OL (Mangold and Faneca are very good, Ferguson is average, Woody is average but a biscuit away from poor, and Moore is sopso)
A very good corner
A DT who is good for a handful of plays and too out of shape to do any more
A good safety
The epitome of medicority at OLB

You have listed 8 players plus your OL.
Are you seriously telling me that you think the players playing alongside them don't matter?
That depth doesnt count?
That how they actually play doesnt count?

You can list good players on any team.
As The Tuna says you are what your record says you are.

I dont know why you want to feel that naming a handful of players that you think are good makes a quality football team.
 

K-Ro 25

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
YOUR average team had
Pro bowl KR
A 1300 yard rusher
mediocre WRs (show me 20 starting AFC WRs they are better than, that would roughly qualify them as better than mediocre....top 12 of 32)
A decent OL (Mangold and Faneca are very good, Ferguson is average, Woody is average but a biscuit away from poor, and Moore is sopso)
A very good corner
A DT who is good for a handful of plays and too out of shape to do any more
A good safety
The epitome of medicority at OLB

You have listed 8 players plus your OL.
Are you seriously telling me that you think the players playing alongside them don't matter?
That depth doesnt count?
That how they actually play doesnt count?

You can list good players on any team.
As The Tuna says you are what your record says you are.

I dont know why you want to feel that naming a handful of players that you think are good makes a quality football team.
We can go day and night. I see a great DT in Jenkins, you see a scrub, we could go back and forth
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
We can go day and night. I see a great DT in Jenkins, you see a scrub, we could go back and forth

No, I see a talented player who cannot play a whole game or last effectively a whole season.
Just as I don't consider KR and 3rd down back as important as a starter I dont consider a starter who plays maybe 30 snaps a game and is worn out by December an overall good player.
He could be the best player who ever lived for parts of games, but that doesnt make him a good player if he cant last a game or season.

Show me where I said he's a scrub? Good is based on what you do on plays AS WELL AS how many plays you are there to impact.
 

K-Ro 25

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
No, I see a talented player who cannot play a whole game or last effectively a whole season.
Just as I don't consider KR and 3rd down back as important as a starter I dont consider a starter who plays maybe 30 snaps a game and is worn out by December an overall good player.
He could be the best player who ever lived for parts of games, but that doesnt make him a good player if he cant last a game or season.

Show me where I said he's a scrub? Good is based on what you do on plays AS WELL AS how many plays you are there to impact.
If Jenkins isnt a good player in your eyes we shouldnt bother posting against one another even though we continue to :)
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
If Jenkins isnt a good player in your eyes we shouldnt bother posting against one another even though we continue to :)

I dont know how much more detail I can give you. The guy plays well when he plays but is incapable of playing enough for me to consider him good. If you had a backup to give him rest, he'd be good in limited action. Without one, he is good til he gets tired then disappears and he disappears to early for my taste.

For a given play he is an excellent DT, for 4 quarters, he isn't what id want./
 
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Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
Regardless, this is just a waste of time. You don't listen, I am not interested in repeating myself and having you read 10 words out of 30.
 

Metaphors

In the Starting Line-Up
I agree on the second part. Revis is a lot more then solid lol. Jenkins was a beast for 11 games which is a lot more then can be said for 85 % of the DT's in football. If you feel the Jets are a mediocre talent team you are entitled to your opinion

That wasn't an "lol" statement. You can throw in any number of synonyms for "solid" if you want, but Revis isn't great YET. He isn't a lockdown corner YET. He isn't a gamechanging presence on defense YET. I feel the same way about Mayo...solid and improving. BTW, I consider that fairly high praise for a young player so I'm not sure what you are looking for.

As for Jenkins, he is better than 85% of the DT's in football for 75% of the season and for 65% of a game. The Panthers didn't trade him because they thought he wasn't a good player. They just realized he couldn't finish anymore and it is tough to win when the pivot player on your defense can't go in the 4th quarter. Sad because if he would get in shape (or even in the same zip code) he could be the beast you are imagining. He did it in Carolina for a couple of years but they realized those days are long gone.
 

K-Ro 25

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
That wasn't an "lol" statement. You can throw in any number of synonyms for "solid" if you want, but Revis isn't great YET. He isn't a lockdown corner YET. He isn't a gamechanging presence on defense YET. I feel the same way about Mayo...solid and improving. BTW, I consider that fairly high praise for a young player so I'm not sure what you are looking for.

Top 5 players at there positions are more then solid
 

Rob0729

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Top 5 players at there positions are more then solid

I think Revis is a very good CB, but top 5 CB? I know teams picked on other DBs a lot, but the Jets were the 29th pass defense in the league. They were tied for 21st in TDs allowed. Not exactly impressive stats. He personally had a respectable 5 INTs and 16 pass defenses.
 

PATRIOTSFANINPA

Pro Bowl Player
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
I would never put any player down as great until he has shown at least 4 proven years of excellent productivity at his position - There are way too many one and two year wonders in this league which look good for their first year or two and then fade badly into the sunset.

Revis is slightly above average to me until he shows something special consistently in the next year or two.
 
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Metaphors

In the Starting Line-Up
I think Revis is a very good CB, but top 5 CB? I know teams picked on other DBs a lot, but the Jets were the 29th pass defense in the league. They were tied for 21st in TDs allowed. Not exactly impressive stats. He personally had a respectable 5 INTs and 16 pass defenses.

Asomugha has 2 INTs and 16 PDs the last TWO seasons. He is arguably the top CB in the league and as a result, teams just don't throw his way. That is the trap in using stats for DBs...the better you are, the fewer opportunities for stats you get.

I don't think anyone has any issues with Revis, so this seems like an odd player to be haggling over. He just needs to keep on his current developmental path and he should be an elite CB...and his stats will likely plummet as a result.
 

Rob0729

PatsFans.com Supporter
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Asomugha has 2 INTs and 16 PDs the last TWO seasons. He is arguably the top CB in the league and as a result, teams just don't throw his way. That is the trap in using stats for DBs...the better you are, the fewer opportunities for stats you get.

I don't think anyone has any issues with Revis, so this seems like an odd player to be haggling over. He just needs to keep on his current developmental path and he should be an elite CB...and his stats will likely plummet as a result.

Asomugha is a rare exception that belongs in a group of two with Champ Bailey who can take away a half of the field because people don't throw his way. Revis isn't there yet.

Revis could end up being an elite CB, but he isn't there yet.
 
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