Some notes on re-watching NE@HOU

[long distance]

.. some notes to share on those marginal things media boys don't seem to care about

1. Lets start w some people they do care about (at least on Pats side). Not that it matters much but still worth noting that Brady's TD play to Rex was played against following HOU front 7:
Ross (udfa rookie coming from CFL) - Ankou (udfa) - Godin (udfa) - Kamalu (2016udfa) // Scarlett (2016udfa) - Cunningham (rookie) - Gilchrist (SS).

2. Despite missing several core pieces and a lot of changing personnel Pats ST were very disciplined giving up almost no penalty yardage while drawing chunks of “hidden yardage“ from opposing ST units over the two games. These hidden chunks of yards that nobody in media cares about are actually game changers with so many flags flying on ST plays.

3. To show some love for beat reporters it is good to see that practice report observations are pretty accurate and mostly translate into the game. Last week positive signs were reported about Ealy, Fleming, Cyrus, JO, Bates f.e. and it showed . while it was quieter about Lucien, Carr, Hollister, Moore etc. and that showed as well.

4. OL - Media were very critical of second unit OL play throwing out superficial statistic of pressures, sacks, hits. Closer look I believe shows a bit different picture. While Karras was not as dominant as in the first game he continues to do a very good job. Croston played mostly LT and a lot of it (despite mostly practicing and excelling at G) he did a solid job. He was beaten maybe 2-3 times 1v1 playing 63 snaps. He is much better T then McDermott at the moment and might be the best of all backup Ts in PP . w Fleming and Waddle probably better in running game. We didn't see him against 1st stringers though. Douglas is up and down, better in running game. Still it would be great if they can keep him on PS. Ferentz looked lost and weak at the beginning but also bounced back a bit. Hard to see him in NFL though. McDermott looked a bit better than last time and played more but he doesn't seem ready to play w big boys. I was surprised J.King only saw a few snaps when Douglas went down and Rich none at all so looks like PS hopes are fading for them.

5. FS position is an interesting under the radar watch as well. They are trying Ebner (mostly practice) and Richards a lot there despite poor results. I guess they'd like to see they have some backup on the roster since Harmon is virtually a starter with over 50% playing time. D.Jones who is finally healthy played the position in second half and while he missed a key tackle on that big Foreman run (in a series of D mishaps and missed tackles) and his general attitude was a bit cautious . he showed great range and speed and seems like a perfect option if he can stay healthy and regain confidence.

6. ST - starting lineup in kicking game:
Chung - Roberts - Freeny - Richards - O'S - Ghost - Langi - Bates - Ebner - Bolden - D-Mac
punting:
Allen, Cardona, Moore, Ebner, D.Allen, Langi, Bolden, Richards, Coleman, Develin, KVN
Snap count:
Freeny (25), O’Shaugnessy (21), Langi (21), Richards (21), Moore (20), Bates (17), Coleman (16), Cyrus (15), Thompson (15)

A.Butler replaced Grissom to pair w Karras at PR. I wonder who will start there as first line D for punt returner in Sept. It was great to see Roberts getting more snaps on ST and his presence showed. Coleman was good also on ST apart from that blackout.

____

notes on some other players..

D.Allen - solid blocking at LOS and 2nd level; looks quicker than Bennett

Harris - very solid vs run, no wrong reads, moves, powerful, dependable run defender; hopefully he can improve a bit in coverage.

Roberts - some missed reads again, over-aggressive plays . but also some great plays for loss. Look at his play in 3rd Q 10:15 and you'd want to keep him no matter what. Also made great tackle on that Coleman ST mishap to allow Pats to recover the ball.

Bates - showed improvement but still can't stop the run, misses or doesn't finish tackles

Richards - made some good plays when he was playing closer to LOS . remains a liability at FS.

Travis - I really like his presence at SS, always around the ball, strong tackler, best udfa DB in my book

Augusta - raw but intriguing. can push the pocket w power and is agile to shed blocks and jump after RB

C.Hollister - Showed a lot in very limited time. Also on ST as gunner. Unfortunately his body seems real fragile
____

Surprised not to see Killings after another good week of practice and good last game . also just a few snaps for Kilgo and Hamilton while Brown and Guy played long into second half..

 

[oldrover]

Nice work... while reading it, however, I became a little embarrassed at how many times I said...

 

[long distance]

.. hopefully some more familiar names can join the party this week . esp Solder, Garcia, Gillislee, Wise and McClellin .. or some of them will soon draw the same question..

id really like to see Garcia in a preseason game because reports from camp were quite contradictory before inj. (winning 1v1, not playing w 2nd stringers.. etc.)

 

[mgteich]

Backup safeties are indeed a concern. As you pointed out, Harmon plays more than most starters, perhaps primarily because Chung is a coverage LB on lots of plays.

It seems that we should have 5 position safeties, given the fact that Chung is often a LB.

FREE SAFETY
Can't one of the corners be our emergency backup at free safety? I think that Ebner also fills this role. In any case, IMHO, this need isn't worth an additional roster spot.

I presume that if one of the 3 safeties was injured, the other two would be our safeties with less involvement of safeties in nickel or dime situations.

STRONG SAFETY
We have Chung and no real backup. While Harmon might be the strong safety by default, it would be better to have a backup strong safety. Richards played that role in 2016. It would seem that we should fill this position on the 53 man roster, with Richards or a replacement.

5. FS position is an interesting under the radar watch as well. They are trying Ebner (mostly practice) and Richards a lot there despite poor results. I guess they'd like to see they have some backup on the roster since Harmon is virtually a starter with over 50% playing time. D.Jones who is finally healthy played the position in second half and while he missed a key tackle on that big Foreman run (in a series of D mishaps and missed tackles) and his general attitude was a bit cautious . he showed great range and speed and seems like a perfect option if he can stay healthy and regain confidence.

Richards - made some good plays when he was playing closer to LOS . remains a liability at FS.

Travis - I really like his presence at SS, always around the ball, strong tackler, best udfa DB in my book

 

[p8ryts]

.. some notes to share on those marginal things media boys don't seem to care about

1. Lets start w some people they do care about (at least on Pats side). Not that it matters much but still worth noting that Brady's TD play to Rex was played against following HOU front 7:
Ross (udfa rookie coming from CFL) - Ankou (udfa) - Godin (udfa) - Kamalu (2016udfa) // Scarlett (2016udfa) - Cunningham (rookie) - Gilchrist (SS).

2. Despite missing several core pieces and a lot of changing personnel Pats ST were very disciplined giving up almost no penalty yardage while drawing chunks of “hidden yardage“ from opposing ST units over the two games. These hidden chunks of yards that nobody in media cares about are actually game changers with so many flags flying on ST plays.

3. To show some love for beat reporters it is good to see that practice report observations are pretty accurate and mostly translate into the game. Last week positive signs were reported about Ealy, Fleming, Cyrus, JO, Bates f.e. and it showed . while it was quieter about Lucien, Carr, Hollister, Moore etc. and that showed as well.

4. OL - Media were very critical of second unit OL play throwing out superficial statistic of pressures, sacks, hits. Closer look I believe shows a bit different picture. While Karras was not as dominant as in the first game he continues to do a very good job. Croston played mostly LT and a lot of it (despite mostly practicing and excelling at G) he did a solid job. He was beaten maybe 2-3 times 1v1 playing 63 snaps. He is much better T then McDermott at the moment and might be the best of all backup Ts in PP . w Fleming and Waddle probably better in running game. We didn't see him against 1st stringers though. Douglas is up and down, better in running game. Still it would be great if they can keep him on PS. Ferentz looked lost and weak at the beginning but also bounced back a bit. Hard to see him in NFL though. McDermott looked a bit better than last time and played more but he doesn't seem ready to play w big boys. I was surprised J.King only saw a few snaps when Douglas went down and Rich none at all so looks like PS hopes are fading for them.

5. FS position is an interesting under the radar watch as well. They are trying Ebner (mostly practice) and Richards a lot there despite poor results. I guess they'd like to see they have some backup on the roster since Harmon is virtually a starter with over 50% playing time. D.Jones who is finally healthy played the position in second half and while he missed a key tackle on that big Foreman run (in a series of D mishaps and missed tackles) and his general attitude was a bit cautious . he showed great range and speed and seems like a perfect option if he can stay healthy and regain confidence.

6. ST - starting lineup in kicking game:
Chung - Roberts - Freeny - Richards - O'S - Ghost - Langi - Bates - Ebner - Bolden - D-Mac
punting:
Allen, Cardona, Moore, Ebner, D.Allen, Langi, Bolden, Richards, Coleman, Develin, KVN
Snap count:
Freeny (25), O’Shaugnessy (21), Langi (21), Richards (21), Moore (20), Bates (17), Coleman (16), Cyrus (15), Thompson (15)

A.Butler replaced Grissom to pair w Karras at PR. I wonder who will start there as first line D for punt returner in Sept. It was great to see Roberts getting more snaps on ST and his presence showed. Coleman was good also on ST apart from that blackout.

____

notes on some other players..

D.Allen - solid blocking at LOS and 2nd level; looks quicker than Bennett

Harris - very solid vs run, no wrong reads, moves, powerful, dependable run defender; hopefully he can improve a bit in coverage.

Roberts - some missed reads again, over-aggressive plays . but also some great plays for loss. Look at his play in 3rd Q 10:15 and you'd want to keep him no matter what. Also made great tackle on that Coleman ST mishap to allow Pats to recover the ball.

Bates - showed improvement but still can't stop the run, misses or doesn't finish tackles

Richards - made some good plays when he was playing closer to LOS . remains a liability at FS.

Travis - I really like his presence at SS, always around the ball, strong tackler, best udfa DB in my book

Augusta - raw but intriguing. can push the pocket w power and is agile to shed blocks and jump after RB

C.Hollister - Showed a lot in very limited time. Also on ST as gunner. Unfortunately his body seems real fragile
____

Surprised not to see Killings after another good week of practice and good last game . also just a few snaps for Kilgo and Hamilton while Brown and Guy played long into second half..

I'm with you on Demarius Travis

 

[long distance]

Backup safeties are indeed a concern. As you pointed out, Harmon plays more than most starters, perhaps primarily because Chung is a coverage LB on lots of plays.

It seems that we should have 5 position safeties, given the fact that Chung is often a LB.

FREE SAFETY
Can't one of the corners be our emergency backup at free safety? I think that Ebner also fills this role. In any case, IMHO, this need isn't worth an additional roster spot.

I presume that if one of the 3 safeties was injured, the other two would be our safeties with less involvement of safeties in nickel or dime situations.

STRONG SAFETY
We have Chung and no real backup. While Harmon might be the strong safety by default, it would be better to have a backup strong safety. Richards played that role in 2016. It would seem that we should fill this position on the 53 man roster, with Richards or a replacement.

@FS
good point on CB being emergency backup. i believe they'd prefer one proper backup though. interestingly enough (acc. to practice reports) they didn't play any CB there (unless you count Cyrus for a few snaps at the end of first games when they were short on S) but they did have long looks with Ebner and Richards who don't seem to fit. D. Jones looks like the only natural for the position at the moment . but he has a long way to go.. (not thinking of roster spots yet myself . just situations at positions)

@SS
Richards looked ok in those surprisingly limited moments he was actually playing SS closer to LOS. (and got good reports from TC in week 1 when he was practicing more at SS). He rarely played in combination with Harmon, instead he played in 2nd nickel rotation with Travis . and Travis played closer to the line mostly and looked very good. Only when D.Jones came in Richards had more snaps closer to the line and made quite a few good plays.

They are probably trying the limits of versatility w each player to have the best picture on cutting day...

 

[PP2]

.. some notes to share on those marginal things media boys don't seem to care about

1. Lets start w some people they do care about (at least on Pats side). Not that it matters much but still worth noting that Brady's TD play to Rex was played against following HOU front 7:
Ross (udfa rookie coming from CFL) - Ankou (udfa) - Godin (udfa) - Kamalu (2016udfa) // Scarlett (2016udfa) - Cunningham (rookie) - Gilchrist (SS).

2. Despite missing several core pieces and a lot of changing personnel Pats ST were very disciplined giving up almost no penalty yardage while drawing chunks of “hidden yardage“ from opposing ST units over the two games. These hidden chunks of yards that nobody in media cares about are actually game changers with so many flags flying on ST plays.

3. To show some love for beat reporters it is good to see that practice report observations are pretty accurate and mostly translate into the game. Last week positive signs were reported about Ealy, Fleming, Cyrus, JO, Bates f.e. and it showed . while it was quieter about Lucien, Carr, Hollister, Moore etc. and that showed as well.

4. OL - Media were very critical of second unit OL play throwing out superficial statistic of pressures, sacks, hits. Closer look I believe shows a bit different picture. While Karras was not as dominant as in the first game he continues to do a very good job. Croston played mostly LT and a lot of it (despite mostly practicing and excelling at G) he did a solid job. He was beaten maybe 2-3 times 1v1 playing 63 snaps. He is much better T then McDermott at the moment and might be the best of all backup Ts in PP . w Fleming and Waddle probably better in running game. We didn't see him against 1st stringers though. Douglas is up and down, better in running game. Still it would be great if they can keep him on PS. Ferentz looked lost and weak at the beginning but also bounced back a bit. Hard to see him in NFL though. McDermott looked a bit better than last time and played more but he doesn't seem ready to play w big boys. I was surprised J.King only saw a few snaps when Douglas went down and Rich none at all so looks like PS hopes are fading for them.

5. FS position is an interesting under the radar watch as well. They are trying Ebner (mostly practice) and Richards a lot there despite poor results. I guess they'd like to see they have some backup on the roster since Harmon is virtually a starter with over 50% playing time. D.Jones who is finally healthy played the position in second half and while he missed a key tackle on that big Foreman run (in a series of D mishaps and missed tackles) and his general attitude was a bit cautious . he showed great range and speed and seems like a perfect option if he can stay healthy and regain confidence.

6. ST - starting lineup in kicking game:
Chung - Roberts - Freeny - Richards - O'S - Ghost - Langi - Bates - Ebner - Bolden - D-Mac
punting:
Allen, Cardona, Moore, Ebner, D.Allen, Langi, Bolden, Richards, Coleman, Develin, KVN
Snap count:
Freeny (25), O’Shaugnessy (21), Langi (21), Richards (21), Moore (20), Bates (17), Coleman (16), Cyrus (15), Thompson (15)

A.Butler replaced Grissom to pair w Karras at PR. I wonder who will start there as first line D for punt returner in Sept. It was great to see Roberts getting more snaps on ST and his presence showed. Coleman was good also on ST apart from that blackout.

____

notes on some other players..

D.Allen - solid blocking at LOS and 2nd level; looks quicker than Bennett

Harris - very solid vs run, no wrong reads, moves, powerful, dependable run defender; hopefully he can improve a bit in coverage.

Roberts - some missed reads again, over-aggressive plays . but also some great plays for loss. Look at his play in 3rd Q 10:15 and you'd want to keep him no matter what. Also made great tackle on that Coleman ST mishap to allow Pats to recover the ball.

Bates - showed improvement but still can't stop the run, misses or doesn't finish tackles

Richards - made some good plays when he was playing closer to LOS . remains a liability at FS.

Travis - I really like his presence at SS, always around the ball, strong tackler, best udfa DB in my book

Augusta - raw but intriguing. can push the pocket w power and is agile to shed blocks and jump after RB

C.Hollister - Showed a lot in very limited time. Also on ST as gunner. Unfortunately his body seems real fragile
____

Surprised not to see Killings after another good week of practice and good last game . also just a few snaps for Kilgo and Hamilton while Brown and Guy played long into second half..

Good notes-

I agree on pointing out HOU's inexperienced line. Cunningham who Burkhead juked out, would be juked out again later on the same play, by DJ foster. Don't think first one was a mistake because Hou elected to rush our spread gun and the high safety had peeled off to help on Gronk, so that essentially left Burkhead in iso with only Cunningham between him and the end zone, but the 2nd time, I expect Cunningham got a tongue-lashing in the video room for failing to recognize the set up.

Another thing I think worth pointing out is what kind of dropoff there is between the first and 2nd string OL (or third), so for all the grief that Garo and Brissett got, one has to keep in mind that they weren't exactly playing behind a sterling OL. And despite that, Brissett was able to drive the team into the RZ for the second game in a row.

Have my eyes on Langhi, as mentioned, and Butler (the other one). How many 6'5 300lb DT can put together a spin and swim move? Think I also remember a crucial B-gap plug on HOU 1st and 10 in RZ.

I think those two are going to play their way onto the roster.

 

[luuked]

FS position is an interesting under the radar watch as well. They are trying Ebner (mostly practice) and Richards a lot there despite poor results

My speculation is that BB wants to see how much drop-off (if any) there is with Ebner instead of Richards. Lets not forget he was experimenting with Ebner as Star (extra DB in nickel) for a couple of snaps even in 2014. I think Richards is essentially done.

Roberts getting more snaps on ST and his presence showed.

Many might disagree but I think ST might be the lifeline for Roberts to stay on the 53. He is still a liability in coverage and his run defense is boom or bust. What do you do with a LB who cant cover, is not reliable in run defense and doesnt contribute in ST ?

Augusta - raw but intriguing. can push the pocket w power and is agile to shed blocks and jump after RB

Hope we can somehow smuggle him onto the PS. Lots of potential...

 

[BTTA]

How many 6'5 300lb DT can put together a spin and swim move? Think I also remember a crucial B-gap plug on HOU 1st and 10 in RZ.

I think those two are going to play their way onto the roster.

This set of DT's is really impressive. And the future is looking as bright as the present. Great roster work by the coaches and scouts.

 

[long distance]

Many might disagree but I think ST might be the lifeline for Roberts to stay on the 53. He is still a liability in coverage and his run defense is boom or bust. What do you do with a LB who cant cover, is not reliable in run defense and doesnt contribute in ST ?

I am more worried about his body than his roster status
He has his share of misses but he also makes some of the biggest plays. The energy and attitude he brings to the field and his unit are important as well. But at the moment he is situational player so ST should be added to his menu and he can be a great asset there. If he can play disciplined he can be a perfect ST player . and I was happy to see couple of plays like that on Saturday.

 

[luuked]

I am more worried about his body than his roster status
He has his share of misses but he also makes some of the biggest plays. The energy and attitude he brings to the field and his unit are important as well. But at the moment he is situational player so ST should be added to his menu and he can be a great asset there. If he can play disciplined he can be a perfect ST player . and I was happy to see couple of plays like that on Saturday.

Dont get me wrong, I agree that he makes big plays but I constantly think of how BB always emphasizes reliability and consistency over ability and feel like Roberts is the epitome of that issue. I would rather have a boring player that consistently make his tackle 3 yards downfield and plays according to scheme, than one that hits a couple of homeruns behind the LOS but then also completely whiffs and gives up large gains.

I was hoping he would make some strides in coverage but that seems to be a pipe dream. I think he really needs to be a ST contributor to not end up as bubble player.

 

[patriot1136]

Backup safeties are indeed a concern. As you pointed out, Harmon plays more than most starters, perhaps primarily because Chung is a coverage LB on lots of plays.

It seems that we should have 5 position safeties, given the fact that Chung is often a LB.

FREE SAFETY
Can't one of the corners be our emergency backup at free safety? I think that Ebner also fills this role. In any case, IMHO, this need isn't worth an additional roster spot.

I presume that if one of the 3 safeties was injured, the other two would be our safeties with less involvement of safeties in nickel or dime situations.

STRONG SAFETY
We have Chung and no real backup. While Harmon might be the strong safety by default, it would be better to have a backup strong safety. Richards played that role in 2016. It would seem that we should fill this position on the 53 man roster, with Richards or a replacement.

Great insight here. I was thinking about the safety situation too in regards to existing CBs. I know we don't want to move guys around too much, but what about Coleman or dare I say Cyrus Jones playing some time at the safety position? They aren't great cornerbacks but are serviceable, maybe they could be backup safeties. Coleman seems to have some special teams value as well. Cyrus is TBD at the moment. I do like the positive notes I'm reading about D. Travis and D. Jones though.

 

[Ring 6]

Backup safeties are indeed a concern. As you pointed out, Harmon plays more than most starters, perhaps primarily because Chung is a coverage LB on lots of plays.

It seems that we should have 5 position safeties, given the fact that Chung is often a LB.

FREE SAFETY
Can't one of the corners be our emergency backup at free safety? I think that Ebner also fills this role. In any case, IMHO, this need isn't worth an additional roster spot.

I presume that if one of the 3 safeties was injured, the other two would be our safeties with less involvement of safeties in nickel or dime situations.

STRONG SAFETY
We have Chung and no real backup. While Harmon might be the strong safety by default, it would be better to have a backup strong safety. Richards played that role in 2016. It would seem that we should fill this position on the 53 man roster, with Richards or a replacement.

I think if Chung went down McCourty would move into his role and Harmon into McCourtys.

 

[Oswlek]

No idea where to put this but...

Absent again, what can Patriots expect with Malcolm Mitchell's availability?

That question came to mind on Wednesday as Mitchell was absent from practice for the second day in a row, which continues an on-again, off-again pattern that reflects how he's still managing knee issues.....

Mitchell was then held out of the preseason opener, before participating in team drills at practice for the first time on Aug. 14. His workload remained at that level through joint practices with the Houston Texanslast week, and then he played 15 snaps in Saturday's preseason loss at Houston, finishing with two catches for 13 yards.

At times, Mitchell reached down for his right knee during the game.

Now he's out of practice again.

Did I just imagine the large TE falling onto Mitchell's knee last Saturday? Why is Reiss talking about this as if this is more of a maintenance issue?

 

[luuked]

No idea where to put this but...

Absent again, what can Patriots expect with Malcolm Mitchell's availability?



Did I just imagine the large TE falling onto Mitchell's knee last Saturday? Why is Reiss talking about this as if this is more of a maintenance issue?

Because having access to the locker room he most probably knows more than we do even if he cant explicitly say. If Reiss says its closer to a maintenance issue then I believe him.

 

[Oswlek]

Because having access to the locker room he most probably knows more than we do even if he cant explicitly say. If Reiss says its closer to a maintenance issue then I believe him.

This isn't the type of situation that lends itself to Reiss' usual "implied unstatedness". A large human fell directly into Mitchell's knee in the way that would have likely tweaked any person, joint issues or no. Leaving this out of the article is puzzling because it literally misrepresents the facts of the situation.

 

[luuked]

This isn't the type of situation that lends itself to Reiss' usual "implied unstatedness". A large human fell directly into Mitchell's knee in the way that would have likely tweaked any person, joint issues or no. Leaving this out of the article is puzzling because it literally misrepresents the facts of the situation.

Or, you know, nothing significant happened to Mitchell when he got hit and the team is following their plan in keeping away unnecessary exposure from his knee. You think it is more likely Reiss just forgot about the hit while specifically writing about MM ? If that was Volin I would sing another tune but Reiss is arguably the best beat guy we have.

 

[Oswlek]

Or, you know, nothing significant happened to Mitchell when he got hit and the team is following their plan in keeping away unnecessary exposure from his knee. You think it is more likely Reiss just forgot about the hit while specifically writing about MM ? If that was Volin I would sing another tune but Reiss is arguably the best beat guy we have.

If this is so, then Reiss' omission of a material fact is actually very Volin-esque. "Hey everyone! Remember that hit that would seemingly be the obvious cause for Mitchell's absence? That actually isn't what's holding him back, it's because he can barely survive a dozen snaps without needing the following week off."

This kind of personal shade is not consistent with Reiss' use of implication in the past.