Special Teams analysis & lineups

[long distance]

It was mentioned before that ST units will see significant changes this year due to the loss of some core ST players of recent years. This is a look inside the actual units over the last two seasons and how this roster was managed . to possibly better understand whats coming up.

2017-2018 ST roster moves

1. After underwhelming 2017 ST preseason . Pats traded for 3 core ST players: Bademosi, M.Flowers and Marsh (with Marsh also trying to fill edge need). None of them remains on 2018 roster.
2. After they put Ebner on IR they brought in another core ST player from Ravens PS in Grigsby (didn't trust the backups from within).
3. In the offseason they re-signed all of their core STers: Ebner, Slater, King, Bolden, M.Flowers. They also traded for Patterson and brought in Pleasant as possible core ST players. They released three of them and traded away another one in Jordan Richards.
__
> From the players that played most 1st unit ST snaps in preseason - 4 are gone: Richards (ST captain), Bolden, M.Flowers and Pleasant. Lets see who will/can replace them.

2017-2018 ST lineups (A - start of 2017; B - AFCCG; C - 2018 preseason; D - 2018 W1 proj.)

kickoff:
A -> Rowe*-Bademosi-JJ-Bolden-Marsh*-#3-Richards-M.Flowers-Langi*-King-Chung*
B -> DMC*-Bademosi-Hogan-Bolden-Slater-#3-Richards-Grigsby-Grissom-King-Chung
C -> Wiltz(Pleasant)-JJ-JMC-Bolden-Flowers-#3-Richards-Grigsby-Grissom-King-Crossen
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D -> JJ-?-?-?-Slater-#3-Ebner-Grigsby-Grissom*-King-Crossen*(Patterson)

*A: ST unit was seeing lots of changes due to injuries, roster moves. When Ebner and Slater returned Chung and Rowe were off; KVN, Hollister and others came in at times for injured Langi, until Grissom and Grigsby took over..
*B: DMC and Chung usually enter ST units in playoffs. JJ and Ebner were on IR.
*C: Lineup of Game 3 of preseason. Sam stepped up for Flowers in game 2. JC Jackson and AJ Moore were also in the mix.
*D: The only 2 new guys who looked good or ok in KO units were Crossen and JC Jackson. After losing #2 CB battle they started to put JMC in the mix but didn't look good. Grissom and Crossen are no locks to make the active roster but with holes in ST units they should get the nod imo.


With M.Flowers, Bolden and Richards gone and nobody from behind really stepping up (outside Crossen) ST units have quite some holes to fill despite Slater and Ebner coming back. Chung, DMC, Rowe, Burkhead and Hogan all have plenty of experience and capability but it would be unfortunate to play starters there on thin positions. Unfortunately backups and rotational players that normally fill those roles didn't emerge - again. Its quite disappointing that Harmon and Roberts can't make it there. Rivers tore his ACL on ST play last year so they might go slowly with him. They tried with Sam but got injured, Langi is out as well. Maybe they could try Bentley.. Hill started to get some looks not only in return but also coverage units so maybe he is one option. JMC looked soft. JC is ok but not ready for top ST competition imo.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out - but for the first two games Id go with Chung & co again and then possibly introduce backups to give them some break before the playoffs..


_______
coming up .. other units

 

[long distance]

2017-18 ST lineups (A - start of 2017; B - AFCCG; C - 2018 preseason; D - 2018 W1 proj.)

punt unit:

A:
JJ--King-M.Flowers-KVN--49--Develin-Marsh-Bolden--Bademosi
----------------------- Richards ----------------------------------------------
-------------------------------- 6 --------------------------------------------

B:
Slater*--King-M.Flowers-Grissom--49--Develin-Grigsby-Bolden--Bademosi
---------------------------------- Richards ----------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------- 6 --------------------------------------------

C:
JC Jackson*--King-M.Flowers-Grissom--49--Develin-Grigsby-Bolden--Crossen*
-------------------------------------- Richards -------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------- 6 --------------------------------------------

D:
JJ--King-?-Grissom--49--Develin-Grigsby-Slater--Crossen(Patterson)
--------------------- Ebner -------------------------------------------
-------------------------- 6 --------------------------------------------

___
B*: JJ and Ebner were injured.
C*: JC Jackson and Crossen replaced Pleasant and AJ Maye as gunners in game 3
D*: Less open spots and reshuffling here. Ebner and Slater come in for Richards and Bolden, JJ for JC, possibly Chung for Flowers at the beginning, Hollister is also an option but is coming from injury, JMC is an option but didn't look like a good one, maybe one of Rivers, Harmon, Bentley, Roberts steps up for the most part of the regular season..

 

[long distance]

2017-18 ST lineups (A - start of 2017; B - AFCCG; C - 2018 preseason; D - 2018 W1 proj.)

kick return unit:

A:
Bademosi-M.Flowers-King -- Richards -- Bolden-Langi-J.Hollister
----------------------- ----------- Marsh --------------------------------
------------------------------- Develin - Allen ------------------------------
------------------------------------ Lewis ------------------------------------

B:
Bademosi-M.Flowers-King -- Richards -- Bolden-Grigsby-Hogan
----------------------- ----------- Slater ---------------------------------
------------------------------- Develin - Allen ---------------------------
------------------------------------ Lewis ---------------------------------

C:
JC Jackson-M.Flowers-King -------------- Bolden-Grissom-Grigsby
----------------Richards -------------------------- Hogan-------------
-------------------------------- Develin - Allen ---------------------------
------------------------------------ Patterson-------------------------------

D:
J.Jones-Grigsby-King -- Ebner -- Hollister?-Grissom-Hogan?
----------------------- ----------- Slater ---------------------------------
----------------------------- Develin - Allen -----------------------------
-------------------------------- Patterson ---------------------------------

B*: JJ and Ebner were injured
D*: Hill could enter the mix in certain situation as second receiver, also Crossen or JC Jackson covering outside gunners. Hollister was injured so someone of the starters could step in for the first games..

 

[long distance]

2017-18 ST lineups (A - start of 2017; B - AFCCG; C - 2018 pres. G3; D - 2018 W1 proj.)

punt return unit:

A:
JJ---King-Langi(KVN)-Wise-M.Flowers(Guy)-Marsh---Bademosi
----- Chung (Burkhead) ---- Richards ------- Bolden ----------
---------------------------Amendola --------------------------------

B:
DMC---King-Hogan-Guy-Harrison-A.Butler-Bolden---Bademosi
------------------------ Slater ----- Richards ----------------------
--------------------- ------Amendola --------------------------------

C:
Rowe-JMC---King-M.Flowers-Grissom-Grigsby-Bolden---DMC
--------------------------- Richards ------------------------------------
----------------------McCarron---Patterson---------------------------

D:
JJ---King-Hogan*-Guy*-Grissom/Wise-Grigsby-Burkhead*---DMC
------------------------ Slater ----- Ebner ----------------------
--------------------------------PR? --------------------------------


*C: JC Jackson and Crossen came in as outside blockers for the second half unit
*D: Wise, A.Butler and Rivers are options in the middle, Hollister instead of Burkhead, Chung and Rowe options as well, also JMC, Crossen, JC Jackson if active..

In preseason game 3 both McCarron and Patterson were lined up as returners (Patterson deeper). Chung is a safe faircatching option, Hogan if need be..

 

[long distance]

It will be interesting to see how some ST holes affect first inactive list.

Id guess it is safe to say that first 3 healthy inactive spots will go to:
Hansen, K.Davis and one of Karras/Schwenke

Id add Sony Michel as well since he was still limited throughout the week and there's little need to rush him. Hollister was limited as well but he didn't miss that much time and they might want another trusty receiver for Brady to be available.

So lets say that leaves 3 more inactive spots and they should be about ST vs backup/rotational value on D (since offence is as thin as it gets at this point).

DL has 4 guys with established roles so id guess they won't touch that.

DE still has 5 guys but one of them is core ST Grissom. My guess is they kept him for core ST duties so Id be surprised if he is inactive at this point re. the loss of ST core. If they are good with 3 deep DE rotation (Hightower/KVN, also Guy, A.Butler can step in as well) Rivers could be the odd man out unless he entered ST in the last 14 days.

LB Bentley impressed in preseason but with all LBs healthy and Grigsby a core STer he is an option to start as inactive as well unless he stepped in as STer behind the curtains.

Both will depend on how many DBs they are dressing. JMC, JC and Crossen are on active bubble. Will they dress one or two of them? If they go with one (and keep one of DE/LB) it will probably be JMC backing up two positions. The other side is he offers little as ST. Crossen is raw but looks much hungrier, tougher, he backs up two CB positions and is the best ST option of the three. JC showed some solid ST plays but could be the odd man out both at ST and backup D.

 

[ChessToCheckers]

Superb presentation, Long Distance!

Way better than what the professional Boston Media have covered on STs this preseason. Oh, wait! They haven't covered STs AT ALL, because of all the Patriots DRAMA they've manufactured.

ST is going to be very interesting this year. Hopefully the Pats will get where they need to be quickly.

 

[mgteich]

I expect the following to always be active if healthy:
Grissom
Ebner
King
Slater
Patterson
Develin
Hollister
Grisby

Also, I expect one of the active RB's to play a lot of teams. Perhaps that is Burkhead.

 

[long distance]

I expect the following to always be active if healthy:
Grissom
Ebner
King
Slater
Patterson
Develin
Hollister
Grisby

Also, I expect one of the active RB's to play a lot of teams. Perhaps that is Burkhead.

agreed. Possibly Burkhead and Hill can share not only RB but also ST workload. Hill played more and more ST as the preseason progressed and also played coverage units lately so if the unit stays reasonably healthy and esp. when Michel returns - Burk&Hill could indeed step in for Bolden..

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Wonder if we see any shakeup after today. Best guess for changes?

 

[long distance]

Wonder if we see any shakeup after today. Best guess for changes?

The guys who stepped in didn't play a single ST snap in preseason: Roberts, Bentley, also Burkhead, Slater, Ebner so of course it was shaky . as predicted above. JMC is not a ST player (by attitude) yet he is “forced“ in the lineups bc he has nothing else to do. Crossen was the only new guy who looked good on ST in preseason but he was benched.

I was not happy how they went about punt returning all year and not happy how they went about losing top ST guys esp. Richards and Bolden.

People here are so ecstatic about getting rid of Richards who was the key piece in keeping this ST unit honest over the last 2 yrs (Ebner and Slater both missed a ton of time) . yet they have no problem (for the moment) with JMC who adds nothing to ST play, lost a CB job to up-and-down Rowe and became a FS backup with no experience at the position.

People also have no problem with King f.e. who is inferior ST player to Richards (on versatility and command alone) and a non entity on D (if LB goes down they always bring a new guy from the street).

But i was really surprised how BB went about it this year (esp. after being so resolute and spared no expense before week 1 last season).

Ill come back with more after re-watch but it will be hard to make significant changes now. Bentley was clearly impressed with the game today so maybe he can step up. I expected they would play him a ton there in preseason since i knew from the start he is making the team but they didn't. They tried with Sam after 1st ps game but got injured. Dawson was in play before injury. Rivers looked serious option last year but got injured on ST play. They were trying with Roberts before but moving in space & traffic is not his forte. With Bentley slowly but surely taking his job Roberts might be another jobless player on the roster.

Crossen and Patterson are great gunners so hopefully they turn to them. But Patterson has a lot of different things on his plate (as some predicted) and with Hill out and MIchel not yet in he might take some rushing snaps as well..

It certainly doesn't look good at the moment and a serious game is coming next week where winning third side of the ball could be crucial..

 

[doesntmatter1]

I don't care if they had returned a few kickoffs back for a touchdown.....I still would have zero regrets about getting rid of Richards.

But can we get Bolden back and someone other than McCarron? What's KJ Maye up to and can we duck tape Malcolm Mitchell's knee lol?

 

[Joker]

Kickoff coverage SUCKED today. EOS. They kept trying to get it fixed with the short kickoffs but I'd take the 25 yard line today, with that Texans offense

 

[captain stone]

Riley McCarron Must Go...Now.

 

[DaBruinz]

I expect the following to always be active if healthy:
Grissom
Ebner
King
Slater
Patterson
Develin
Hollister
Grisby

Also, I expect one of the active RB's to play a lot of teams. Perhaps that is Burkhead.

Was Brandon King out there today? I don't remember seeing him on STs.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't care if they had returned a few kickoffs back for a touchdown.....I still would have zero regrets about getting rid of Richards.

But can we get Bolden back and someone other than McCarron? What's KJ Maye up to and can we duck tape Malcolm Mitchell's knee lol?

K.J. Maye only returned 4 punts during his college career.

Kalif Raymond, whom we saw in preseason 4 with the GIants, had 60 something with a 7.5YPR over his 4 year career at Holy Cross.

 

[DaBruinz]

People also have no problem with King f.e. who is inferior ST player to Richards (on versatility and command alone) and a non entity on D (if LB goes down they always bring a new guy from the street).

Sorry, LD, but I have to disagree with you. Brandon King has played all over STs. He started as a gunner opposite Slater and was moved to be one of the edge guys opposite Bolden on the Punt Line when J. Jones earned his promotion in 2016. . He also lines up on the kick-off unit, though I didn't see him today (I believe I just missed him).

You say Richards was all that but he really wasn't. Richards only took Ebner's place on punt units as the Personal Protector. On kick off units, he didn't do much. King did a lot more.

You only have to look at 2016 for this proof. In 2016, Richards had 191 ST snaps. King was 4th on the team with 299. Yes, King only had 237 ST snaps in 2017, but he also missed 3 games and parts of 2 others whereas Richards didn't and Richards was given the extra responsibility as Personal Protector where King was already out there on the Line.

New England Patriots 2017 Snap Counts | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[DaBruinz]

Did anyone watch other teams in Pre-season to see a possible PR guy?

 

[long distance]

Sorry, LD, but I have to disagree with you. Brandon King has played all over STs. He started as a gunner opposite Slater and was moved to be one of the edge guys opposite Bolden on the Punt Line when J. Jones earned his promotion in 2016. . He also lines up on the kick-off unit, though I didn't see him today (I believe I just missed him).

You say Richards was all that but he really wasn't. Richards only took Ebner's place on punt units as the Personal Protector. On kick off units, he didn't do much. King did a lot more.

You only have to look at 2016 for this proof. In 2016, Richards had 191 ST snaps. King was 4th on the team with 299. Yes, King only had 237 ST snaps in 2017, but he also missed 3 games and parts of 2 others whereas Richards didn't and Richards was given the extra responsibility as Personal Protector where King was already out there on the Line.

New England Patriots 2017 Snap Counts | Pro-Football-Reference.com

No problem. I based my assessment on re-watching all 2017 ST snaps and watching as carefully as i could 2016.

1. Richards took over both positional and green dot duties of Ebner when he (and Slater) were out (and it was quite a lot of that).
2. Personal protector is among most important/trusted ST positions (acc. to Lombardi f.e.)
3. Outside of the only stats people count (ST tackles) both Richards and Bolden looked more impactful than King to me.

Its hard to compare Richards and King just by the only accounted stat bc they played different positions and had different duties. Bolden and King played mostly the same position on opposite sides the last 2 yrs. King has a few more tackles but Bolden was much more disruptive rushing the punter and had better presence overall.

Both Bolden and Richards actually served as backups in their respective positions and saw quite a bit of playing time on O and D. How they did there I will leave to the many experts here. King is obviously not trusted enough to step in in a single game (they prefer every street LB they can find when need be).

Don't get me wrong, the comment was not to be the knock at King, just exposing double standards in “evaluating“ players without paying attention to what they do (and not just what they do badly)..

 

[Uptown]

 

[maineman209]

Buh-bye, Barner.