So how do you grade this year’s draft?

[SHOWTIME15]

How does it look less impressive? Tampa sucked before Brady got there, Stafford took a team that Goff made the SB with.

Are you that upset over Brady that you are willing to humiliate yourself over it?

Yes, Brady single handidly won the super bowl for Tampa. He took a team devoid of any talent and turned a bunch losers into pro bowlers, etc.

Seriously, it's not that hard to figure out that Tampa had talented players and was underachieving before Brady got there. They had Evans, Godwin, Suh, Barrett, David, White, and Marpet and added Brown, Fournette, and Gronk to form a super team.

 

[lancerman]

Yes, Brady single handidly won the super bowl for Tampa. He took a team devoid of any talent and turned a bunch losers into pro bowlers, etc.

Seriously, it's not that hard to figure out that Tampa had talented players and was underachieving before Brady got there. They had Evans, Godwin, Suh, Barrett, David, White, and Marpet and added Brown, Fournette, and Gronk to form a super team.

Tampa record the year before Brady got there: 7-9 and missed playoffs.

LA’s record the year before Stafford got there: 10-6 and made the playoffs and won a playoff game.

Brady: won SB MVP

Stafford did not win SB MVP

You shouldn’t post, it makes you sound dumb.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Tampa record the year before Brady got there: 7-9 and missed playoffs.

LA’s record the year before Stafford got there: 10-6 and made the playoffs and won a playoff game.

Brady: won SB MVP

Stafford did not win SB MVP

You shouldn’t post, it makes you sound dumb.

You're not this dumb are you? NVM I know who you voted for.

 

[Ian]

Saying Brady is a jag is absurd… that being said he was a free agent who left on his own.

Also the team didn’t hit a salary cap impasse because of Tom’s salary alone. By the end of 2019 over a quarter of the Pats cap was spent on 72 players dead cap and Stephon Gilmore.

From 2014 on they went all in and started kicking cap down the road, including reworking Gilmore’s contract twice to sign free agents at the trade deadline. They used Tom, Gronk, Gilmore, Cannon’s and others contracts as a slush fund to create depth.

By the end of 2019 they could have afforded to sign Tom and not much else… the team would have sucked. It was the right move for both player and team to move on… even if the Brady zealots can’t accept it.

But that's not Brady's fault - but they honestly should have extended him prior to that and then the financial issues wouldn't have been what they were. Instead, the deal was what it was and the end left them in tough shape. Again, obviously it worked out and they landed Mac, which wouldn't have happened if they stuck it out. At the same time, if they hadn't landed Mac and we were on veteran QB retread #2 or #3, I'm pretty sure the sentiments around here - myself included - would be very different. Fortunately, that isn't the case.

 

[lancerman]

You're not this dumb are you? NVM I know who you voted for.

Dude when multiple people tell you that they think you are a troll, take the hint.

 

[Ring 6]

But that's not Brady's fault - but they honestly should have extended him prior to that and then the financial issues wouldn't have been what they were. Instead, the deal was what it was and the end left them in tough shape. Again, obviously it worked out and they landed Mac, which wouldn't have happened if they stuck it out. At the same time, if they hadn't landed Mac and we were on veteran QB retread #2 or #3, I'm pretty sure the sentiments around here - myself included - would be very different. Fortunately, that isn't the case.

Extending him earlier wouldn’t have prevented the problem.
After going to 8 consecutive AFCCG, 5 SBs in 8 years and 4 of the past 5, the moves they made to stay on top came home to roost. The team was declining and didn’t have the cap space to fix problems and stay on top. They couldn’t do it paying newton $3 mill, so they wouldn’t have been close to doing it had Brady been extended early.
The hope would have been to pray Brady could carry a poor team with little hope to improve it, then start to rebuild at 45.
The team we put around Jones last year was built with $50,000,000 of cap space freed up by not paying Brady. 2020 would have been a degraded 2019 team and 2021 at best would have been a slight improvement on 2020.

A rebuild had to happen, we weren’t winning championships without it, and Brady leaving accelerated it at least 2 years, probably more.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Dude when multiple people tell you that they think you are a troll, take the hint.

Ian has given you a great solution - the ignore button. Not bright enough to use it?

 

[Ian]

Extending him earlier wouldn’t have prevented the problem.
After going to 8 consecutive AFCCG, 5 SBs in 8 years and 4 of the past 5, the moves they made to stay on top came home to roost. The team was declining and didn’t have the cap space to fix problems and stay on top. They couldn’t do it paying newton $3 mill, so they wouldn’t have been close to doing it had Brady been extended early.
The hope would have been to pray Brady could carry a poor team with little hope to improve it, then start to rebuild at 45.
The team we put around Jones last year was built with $50,000,000 of cap space freed up by not paying Brady. 2020 would have been a degraded 2019 team and 2021 at best would have been a slight improvement on 2020.

A rebuild had to happen, we weren’t winning championships without it, and Brady leaving accelerated it at least 2 years, probably more.

That's not true. They could have kicked the can down the road long-term just like they had for the last 20-years+. Instead, the change in how they decided to handle it created the problem.

It didn't just suddenly become an issue after 20-years. The fact Belichick decided the end was near was the reason. If you don't extend a player with a moderately large salary out long-term, it doesn't work.

Again, I'm not saying it didn't ultimately work out (if they didn't land Jones, I'd probably feel differently), but it absolutely could have if they would have continued with the same philosophy and structure they used over the previous two decades.

 

[lancerman]

Ian has given you a great solution - the ignore button. Not bright enough to use it?

Why would I avoid looking at a trainwreck?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Why would I avoid looking at a trainwreck?

See this is just dumb. You accuse me of trolling, which by definition is the inflaming of others, and then you don't put me on ignore when you are trolled and then complain about it afterwards. I guess you like getting hit on the head with a 2 X 4 repeatedly.

 

[All3Phases]

That's not true. They could have kicked the can down the road long-term just like they had for the last 20-years+. Instead, the change in how they decided to handle it created the problem.

It didn't just suddenly become an issue after 20-years. The fact Belichick decided the end was near was the reason. If you don't extend a player with a moderately large salary out long-term, it doesn't work.

Again, I'm not saying it didn't ultimately work out (if they didn't land Jones, I'd probably feel differently), but it absolutely could have if they would have continued with the same philosophy and structure they used over the previous two decades.

Don’t forget Brady begging for extensions for multiple offseasons and being denied. The patriots simply didn’t want him on a commitment, and that’s their right. The idea that they didn’t have money for their quarterback is ridiculous, especially at a bargain.

 

[Ian]

Don’t forget Brady begging for extensions for multiple offseasons and being denied. The patriots simply didn’t want him on a commitment, and that’s their right. The idea that they didn’t have money for their quarterback is ridiculous, especially at a bargain.

I agree. Again, they made the decision to handle it the way they did and it stinks, but "it is what it is". Doing it before they really had someone in waiting was my only issue and honestly, had they not gone 7-9 that year with Newton and not gotten Mac, I don't know how I'd feel about it at this point. Imagine having to put your hopes on Newton again or Marcus Mariota ... I think I'd be upset.

 

[All3Phases]

I agree. Again, they made the decision to handle it the way they did and it stinks, but "it is what it is". Doing it before they really had someone in waiting was my only issue and honestly, had they not gone 7-9 that year with Newton and not gotten Mac, I don't know how I'd feel about it at this point. Imagine having to put your hopes on Newton again or Marcus Mariota ... I think I'd be upset.

They also franchised Thuney, signed Mccourty, and paid Chung in that offseason. The money well wasn’t dry, they simply didn’t want him multiple years at guaranteed dollars.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I agree. Again, they made the decision to handle it the way they did and it stinks, but "it is what it is". Doing it before they really had someone in waiting was my only issue and honestly, had they not gone 7-9 that year with Newton and not gotten Mac, I don't know how I'd feel about it at this point. Imagine having to put your hopes on Newton again or Marcus Mariota ... I think I'd be upset.

Brady wouldn't have done much with this roster in 2019 and 2020 (part of that was Bill's fault as GM). Maybe we get a playoff win last year but this team wasn't built to go far in 2020. It was good to cut ties with him so we can begin a new era. The people who are most upset about it in NE are the ones who have an emotional attachment to him.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

That's not true. They could have kicked the can down the road long-term just like they had for the last 20-years+. Instead, the change in how they decided to handle it created the problem.

It didn't just suddenly become an issue after 20-years. The fact Belichick decided the end was near was the reason. If you don't extend a player with a moderately large salary out long-term, it doesn't work.

Again, I'm not saying it didn't ultimately work out (if they didn't land Jones, I'd probably feel differently), but it absolutely could have if they would have continued with the same philosophy and structure they used over the previous two decades.

I agree with Ring. BB couldn't continue to ignore the age issue entering Brady's 43 season, especially after 2019 ended so badly. The responsible thing was to do exactly what he did.

 

[Wozzy]

But that's not Brady's fault - but they honestly should have extended him prior to that and then the financial issues wouldn't have been what they were. Instead, the deal was what it was and the end left them in tough shape. Again, obviously it worked out and they landed Mac, which wouldn't have happened if they stuck it out. At the same time, if they hadn't landed Mac and we were on veteran QB retread #2 or #3, I'm pretty sure the sentiments around here - myself included - would be very different. Fortunately, that isn't the case.

They played in four Super Bowls and won three rings because they “went all in” and kicked cap debt down the road. I don’t think anyone would trade or change that for another year or more of Tom on a team not good enough to win rings… at least I wouldn’t.

I’ve been saying it since before Tom announced he was leaving NE, it was the right move for both player and team. It was both parties fastest path to winning another ring. Tom got his, the Pats are well on their way to rebuilding towards a contender.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

We needed a complete re-boot with a rookie QB and a talent infusion using the freed-up funds.

 

[Ian]

I agree with Ring. BB couldn't continue to ignore the age issue entering Brady's 43 season, especially after 2019 ended so badly. The responsible thing was to do exactly what he did.

Ring said they couldn't afford him. They could - but that would have required having the confidence he could play at least until 45. They didn't, so the contract structure allowed them to move on but put them in a tough spot financially, which is what happens when a big contract comes to an end. Albeit, it wasn't as bad as others we've seen.

Again, I'm glad it worked out and that Jones is here. At the same time, if it hadn't, I think we'd all be pretty frustrated with Newton or Mariota still here and probably having OK seasons while still coming up short wondering when "the next guy" would be here. I'm just glad we're not in that boat.

 

[All3Phases]

We needed a complete re-boot with a rookie QB and a talent infusion using the freed-up funds.

The money they saved on Brady was used to franchise Thuney and Sign Mccourty

 

[Ian]

They played in four Super Bowls and won three rings because they “went all in” and kicked cap debt down the road. I don’t think anyone would trade or change that for another year or more of Tom on a team not good enough to win rings… at least I wouldn’t.

I’ve been saying it since before Tom announced he was leaving NE, it was the right move for both player and team. It was both parties fastest path to winning another ring. Tom got his, the Pats are well on their way to rebuilding towards a contender.

I don't disagree, other than to say they made some bad decisions personnel and contract-wise that left them in a tough spot with not enough talent on offense. The awful deals they made elsewhere hurt $$-wise and then the poor drafting was brutal, along with other bad decisions. I mean, missing on N'Keal Harry, Dalton Keene, Devin Asiasi, and then having the Sanu trade go south, having the Antonio Brown thing go bad, etc. They made a lot of bad decisions.

It didn't just have to do with money. If they hit on a receiver who could have made a difference instead of Harry and even one of those tight ends who could have been an impact player, things might have been different.

I initially thought maybe Brady's attitude toward young receivers was the reason Harry faltered. Clearly that wasn't the case. I just can't believe how bad they failed to keep that group of players from becoming as bad as it was. I mean, I know Gronk's decision not to come back caught them off guard ... but still. The Keene and Asiasi selections are still just shocking.