Should we go all in for the next 2 years?

[stinkypete]

It depends how you define "all in."

I don't forsee a 2007 style all-in spending spree, because there are no glaring weaknesses on the team like there were in the 2006 team (WR, pass rush).

To me, all in means you keep as much of the team together as possible for another run. You have $63 million in cap room. You can't keep everyone, and you'll eventually have to let a defensive star walk, but there's flexibility for 2017. Keep the defensive core together, you open the year as favorites to repeat. This can be done for at least one year. My worst case scenario (neither Butller or Hightower agree to long term deal, market inflated for Branch and Ryan).

Franchise Hightower at $14.5m
1st round tender Butler at $2.7m
Re-sign Ryan at $8m per
Re-sign Branch at $6m per

This leaves the team with the most important cogs of the defense in place and around $30 million to spend.

 

[patsfaninpa]

It depends how you define "all in."

I don't forsee a 2007 style all-in spending spree, because there are no glaring weaknesses on the team like there were in the 2006 team (WR, pass rush).

To me, all in means you keep as much of the team together as possible for another run. You have $63 million in cap room. You can't keep everyone, and you'll eventually have to let a defensive star walk, but there's flexibility for 2017. Keep the defensive core together, you open the year as favorites to repeat. This can be done for at least one year. My worst case scenario (neither Butller or Hightower agree to long term deal, market inflated for Branch and Ryan).

Franchise Hightower at $14.5m
1st round tender Butler at $2.7m
Re-sign Ryan at $8m per
Re-sign Branch at $6m per

This leaves the team with the most important cogs of the defense in place and around $30 million to spend.

I want to make all of the moves you mentioned. But, I want Butler on a longer deal because I don't want him to walk after 2017. I think there's enough money to do that and also keep Bennett and Harmon. We will improve by getting Gronk healthy and signing M. Floyd too. One yr prove it deal because of looming suspension. Trading Jimmy G should give us the flexibility to have an outstanding draft too. As I said, I don't need to go crazy on UFA's from other teams. Just keeping all of our own. I just can't see us winning once TB12 leaves for a while.

 

[captain insano]

they should do what they have been doing since 01. it works. why change anything.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

I want to make all of the moves you mentioned. But, I want Butler on a longer deal because I don't want him to walk after 2017. I think there's enough money to do that and also keep Bennett and Harmon. We will improve by getting Gronk healthy and signing M. Floyd too. One yr prove it deal because of looming suspension. Trading Jimmy G should give us the flexibility to have an outstanding draft too. As I said, I don't need to go crazy on UFA's from other teams. Just keeping all of our own. I just can't see us winning once TB12 leaves for a while.

This is why I want Brady to retire in 3 years and BB in 5 years. If you give BB two years with a QB that he sees fit to play at a high level - The NE dynasty might be sustained longer if BB passes the torch on.

 

[NashuaPats]

I've been wanting to go all in for the past half dozen years to take advantage of Brady's last years. I'm repeatedly wrong, so I don't even listen to myself and don't recommend anyone else do so either. That said, I'm hoping to turn Garroppolo into a top pick and pick OJ Howard or a pass rusher. Don't listen to me. I'm not worthy.

 

[RayRay]

Normally I would say hell yah go all in but how can anyone of us question BB and his ways. There's a reason we're the greatest franchise of all time and we always tend to let the big contracts go before we get stuck with them.

But, when we did have a weapon who's name rhymes with floss, we were unstoppable (well almost)
I mean TB and BB can make a lacrosse player a super bowl champion then we can only get better with better players. But at the same time be smart with the money like they always have been.

We tend to forget that after the 3 championships and before these 2 Super Bowl wins, we always had good teams but could never close out and that's where maybe those big playmakers would come in.
(I know we lost with moss but look at what we did all the way until the super bowl, we destroyed teams)


Buuuut like I said, what the hell do we know compared to the almighty genius BB

 

[supafly]

If by "all in" you mean the exact same way Belichick has been building the team for the past 15 yrs, then yes.

 

[supafly]

I'm guessing that he's going to try to leave his successor in a pretty good situation as it pertains to the salary cap space and draft selections.

 

[Kontradiction]

By the hair of our chinny, chin chins. And, you're ok letting guys who helped win those games walk?

Not letting those guys walk =/= going all in. It doesn't matter what fashion we won those games in. We won. Without going "all in".

 

[zydecochris]

Going "all in" just isn't in BB's blood... I can't imagine it'll happen. Bill will make some good moves but it'll always be with one eye firmly locked on maintaining for the future, not just right now.

Recently there was a poster (I think it was Deus) who said if you don't have enough time to do a bunch of research on a football-related point, simply make an unsupported assertion and others will do hours of research to prove you wrong. I thought that was both funny and accurate, so let me give it a try.

I don't really haven't come up with quotes or anything, but I thought I remembered something from years ago where BB indicated that his greatest pride was building a model and organization for long term, consistent winning. It just seems completely opposite to the way BB does things to sacrifice the future for a short term gain. In fact, he is usually the guy trading draft picks for future higher draft picks.

I wouldn't be surprised if he takes the same long term approach up to the moment he retires. I suspect nothing would please him more than for the Patriots organization, perhaps under someone he has mentored like Caserio, to continue to win after he is no longer coaching.

 

[Bradyking12]

The only way I would be okay with it '17 roster

Tom Brady
Rob Gronkowski
Martellus Bennett
Calvin Johnson
Josh Gordon
Larry Fitzgerald
Michael Floyd
Adrian Peterson
Dion Lewis
James White

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I think I've seen various forms of this post every year since I joined the forum.

The Patriots spend roughly the same amount as everyone else, so I'm not totally even sure what this means, but from what I've gathered over the years, it seems like what we're talking about is trading future assets for current ones, and signing some big free agents instead of the boring old depth guys.

But this year's game should show us exactly why this is the way to go. After trading Collins and Jones, the defense gelled in a way none of us could have predicted. Part of that was the incredible depth we have throughout the roster. Last year, we had Jones and Ninko, signed Sheard in free agency, yet drafted Flowers, who contributed nothing in his rookie season. We got rid of Jones, but signed Long and could go 4-deep at DE. All of those guys made plays in the win.

Our OL remained in tact most of the season, but part of that was the great contributions of Cannon, a guy almost everyone wanted gone after last season. When Vollmer couldn't come back, Cannon stepped up at an All Pro level. Meanwhile, the Falcons had a lot of injuries on the OL, with both tackles and their center having to play through serious injuries because of their lack of depth.

The Falcons had 2 good running backs, but we had 3. They had 3 good receivers, we had 4. We had more depth at corner, at safety, at pretty much every single position. The Falcons had Vic Beasley, but we were able to neutralize one guy. On the flipside, we had 3 or 4 guys who all made plays rushing the passer.

Lots of teams start out the season strong, then start to fade as injuries pile up. This team won the Super Bowl without arguably their second-best offensive player in Gronk, and 2 of the 3 defensive "cornerstones" everyone assumed we had to lock up last season.

So I'm okay with doing what we're doing. Ever since we traded Seymour, I've heard calls for going all in, but that sounds like something for the off-season champions like the Lolphins and Jets. I'll take winning in February over that any day.

 

[mgteich]

It depends how you define "all in."

I don't forsee a 2007 style all-in spending spree, because there are no glaring weaknesses on the team like there were in the 2006 team (WR, pass rush).

To me, all in means you keep as much of the team together as possible for another run. You have $63 million in cap room. You can't keep everyone, and you'll eventually have to let a defensive star walk, but there's flexibility for 2017. Keep the defensive core together, you open the year as favorites to repeat. This can be done for at least one year. My worst case scenario (neither Butller or Hightower agree to long term deal, market inflated for Branch and Ryan).

Franchise Hightower at $14.5m
1st round tender Butler at $2.7m
Re-sign Ryan at $8m per
Re-sign Branch at $6m per

This leaves the team with the most important cogs of the defense in place and around $30 million to spend.

Within that $30M, I would bring back Harmon, Long and Branch.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Recently there was a poster (I think it was Deus) who said if you don't have enough time to do a bunch of research on a football-related point, simply make an unsupported assertion and others will do hours of research to prove you wrong. I thought that was both funny and accurate, so let me give it a try.

I don't really haven't come up with quotes or anything, but I thought I remembered something from years ago where BB indicated that his greatest pride was building a model and organization for long term, consistent winning. It just seems completely opposite to the way BB does things to sacrifice the future for a short term gain. In fact, he is usually the guy trading draft picks for future higher draft picks.

I wouldn't be surprised if he takes the same long term approach up to the moment he retires. I suspect nothing would please him more than for the Patriots organization, perhaps under someone he has mentored like Caserio, to continue to win after he is no longer coaching.

Google "Patriots mission statement" (yes, they have one).

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

It depends how you define "all in."

I don't forsee a 2007 style all-in spending spree, because there are no glaring weaknesses on the team like there were in the 2006 team (WR, pass rush).

To me, all in means you keep as much of the team together as possible for another run. You have $63 million in cap room. You can't keep everyone, and you'll eventually have to let a defensive star walk, but there's flexibility for 2017. Keep the defensive core together, you open the year as favorites to repeat. This can be done for at least one year. My worst case scenario (neither Butller or Hightower agree to long term deal, market inflated for Branch and Ryan).

Franchise Hightower at $14.5m
1st round tender Butler at $2.7m
Re-sign Ryan at $8m per
Re-sign Branch at $6m per

This leaves the team with the most important cogs of the defense in place and around $30 million to spend.

They let Hicks walk and he got 5m per. They would (IMO) NEVER pay that much for Branch. Hicks walked and Vince got less than that. IMO it's gonna be a 3m + incentives deal. If they let Sheard and Bennett hit FA. They can pay Ryan as a #2CB i would offer him the same deal Rodgers- Cromartie got 7M + you can add a bunch of NLBTE incentives such as Pro Bowls. Butler Tender is 3.6-4M. And why would you tag HT for 14.5 if you can give him 13m and that's the top-paid deal for a LB. Why would he decline this deal?

 

[Ivan]

No they didn't. They let Curtis Martin walk. As long as TB12 is your qb, I understand the reason for not going all in for 1-2 particular years. Because, he can help you win a championship every year he has a good roster. I doubt any semblance of our current roster can win it all without TB12. Brady isn't going to be our qb forever. I'd like to give him the best shot at winning our next title. The window is closing. Not counting on his successor to fill in without a significan fall-off at that position.

Huh?

They didn't let Curtis Martin walk Parcells put a poison pill in the contract that prevented the Patriots from being able to match it, the practice was then outlawed.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Why? The team has won two of the last three Super Bowls without going "all in".

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

The only definition of all in IMO is trade Jimmy.

Jimmy + #32 for #12 + #52 +#65 + #141 - It's basically Jimmy for #12 + pick #102. If there is a biding war they can get more.

CAP ROOM ( TENDER - Cameron Fleming/ Matt Lengel/Justin Coleman/Brandon King) + Vollmer retirement + Waddle Cut + Dola's extension + Jimmy's trade = $7,381,503 ( Sign all draft picks + cushion for the season)

Quarterbacks - 2 (=) It's the same IMO because Brady will play 100% of the meaningful snaps.

Cash spend: 0

TRADE: JG

• 12 Tom Brady
• 7 Jacoby Brissett

Running backs - 5 (+) Even if Blount hits FA and leaves this draft is deep and we can double-dip.

Cash spend: 2m

FA - WALK: BOLDEN

• 33 Dion Lewis
• 28 James White
• #130 RB Donta Foreman
• #183 RB Jamaal Williams ST
• Blount - 2m

Wide receivers - 5 (+) Same players but Floyd will know the playbook.

Cash spend: Floyd - 3.5m

• 80 Danny Amendola
• 11 Julian Edelman
• 15 Chris Hogan
• 19 Malcolm Mitchell
• Floyd one year deal 3.5m + incetives

Tight ends/ FB - 4 (-).Martellus Bennett - Let him hit FA. We get a comp next year, probably a 3rd round. It'a deep class all across the board. So we can double-dip: Leggett + Butt. For now the position is (-), but the potential os both players, the pick next year and the money saved could be a huge gain. Gronk will be healthy and IMO we did the right thing and took adv of the situation. Long term future this will be one of the strongest group.

Cash spend: Devlin - 2m

FA- WALK: Bennett/ Michael Williams don't use the tender/Gregg Scruggs - Non factor.

• 87 Rob Gronkowski
• 82 Matt Lengel
• #103 TE Jordan Leggett - Steal 1.0
• #96 TE Jake Butt IR - Steal 2.0
  
• 46 James Develin - 2m

Offensive linemen - 8 (+) We need a backup center and depth behind T. This draft is very weak so we need to draft a C soon and we need T for depth with upside. Vollmer(retirement) + Waddle ( Cap savings - non factor) are the only changes.

Cash spend: 0m

CUTS - Waddle/Vollmer( retirement)

• 60 David Andrews C
• #65 C Ethan Pocic - Best C this draft. Huge guy, the teams won't be able to bully him like they did to Andrews.
  
• 61 Marcus Cannon T
• 63 Tre' Jackson G
• 75 Ted Karras G - PS
• 69 Shaq Mason G
• 77 Nate Solder T
• 62 Joe Thuney G
• #164 T Brad Seaton - Developmental guy. They have Cannon locked and if they want a day 1 LT they will have to draft one next year. It's not usual to find right away contributors in the end of the draft. We have other priorities and this guy can be our swing T. He has size and all the tools. Next year if Solder's leave we draft a guy roud #1.

Defensive linemen - 6 (+) Bennett's aproach. We use one of our best pick to pair with Flowers. Sheard will fetch a big contract. We get a better/younger players, save money and get a 4th next year.

Cash spend: Long + Branch = 7m

FA-WALK: Jabaal Sheard

• 90 Malcom Brown DT
• 98 Trey Flowers DE
• 99 Vincent Valentine DT
• #52 DeMarcus Walker DE
  
• 95 Chris Long DE 3m
• 97 Alan Branch DT 4m

Linebackers - 7 (+) Use our best pick + our 3rd best pick to improve this area. This become one of our strongest groups right away.

Cash spend: HT + Barkevious Mingo - 14.5m

• #12 ILB Reuben Foster
  #64 OLB Ryan Anderson
  
• 54 Dont'a Hightower - Bring the beast back. 13m/5years
• 50 Rob Ninkovich OLB/DE
• 52 Elandon Roberts MLB
• 53 Kyle Van Noy OLB
• 58 Shea McClellin OLB

Defensive backs - 8 (+)

Cash spend: Butler + Ryan + Harmon = 24m

FA-BACK - Harmon/Ryan

• 23 Patrick Chung SS
• 24 Cyrus Jones CB
• 32 Devin McCourty FS
• 25 Eric Rowe CB
• 21 Malcolm Butler CB - Bring back the beast 12.5m /5 years.
• 26 Logan Ryan CB - 7M
• 30 Duron Harmon FS - 4.5m
• #141 CB Ahkello Witherspoon

Special teams - 8

• 6 Ryan Allen P
• 49 Joe Cardona LS
• 3 Stephen Gostkowski K
• 18 Matthew Slater WR
  
• 31 Jonathan Jones CB
  
• 43 Nate Ebner SS
  
• 36 Brandon King DB
• 51 Barkevious Mingo LB

 

[Racervx54]

All in huh? How about we just stay with whats worked for the last 16 years. Works so why change?

 

[English Patriot]

I don't wanna bet any future post this coach/qb. There is really nothing more for us to prove except adding to legacy and i don't think that would be worth mortgaging anything down the road. Keep doing what we're doing the Patriot way and there will most likely be more SB trophies in the future coming back to NE.