Should we be going DB with one our 1st rounders?

[West Philly Patriot]

Bodden has been released, Dowling has been sent to IR, & Molden is our #3. Not to mention the state of the safety position. Looks as if we are in retool mode on the back side. Not giving up on Dowling but we need to have a viable contingency should he be a perennially injured player. There is the possibility that injuries could hamper his development moving forward.

Is there any chance we make a move for Dre Kirkpatrick or Morris Claiborne in the 1st? How about Stephon Gilmore in the early second? I feel that this team needs to throw some resources @ the DB position. The 2012 Safety class also seems pretty putrid imo. What say you?

 

[Defsoul]

We definitely could use more depth unless they find the next Kyle Arrington among Adams, Mouldon or one of the PS guys.

 

[Patriot Missile]

After the last 2 days I would say the anser points to yes. Although now that we expect to grab a CB Belichick will draft a pass rushing OLB.

 

[Destroyer]

After the last 2 days I would say the anser points to yes. Although now that we expect to grab a CB Belichick will draft a pass rushing OLB.

I think he's going DE and DT. Just a gut feeling, then grabbing a corner/safety with one of the second rounders. I honestly think BB is going to go after a solid corner in free agency.

 

[Sciz]

We should be going BPAaaPoSN as usual. It's just that CB is now included in the "at a position of some need." Don't draft for positions; draft for ability.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

We should be going BPAaaPoSN as usual. It's just that CB is now included in the "at a position of some need." Don't draft for positions; draft for ability.

Even if the position is really really needed. This is the 1st time I will not pine for DE/OLB with our 1st pick. I think we have the undeniably worst secondary in football right now.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

The CB class is all top heavy anyway. I say he takes either a FS or a DE w. the 1st rounder or even a center and then trades the 2nd 1st's (he will do this every year b/c it nets us an extra 2nd rounder every time!!!) and take either a DE or Center.

I do think he will take Cam Johnson in the 2nd round. Ideal 34ROLB. He can 2 gap, set the edge, cover and he played 34OLB in a 34 at Virginia before they moved to a 4-3.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The CB class is all top heavy anyway. I say he takes either a FS or a DE w. the 1st rounder or even a center and then trades the 2nd 1st's (he will do this every year b/c it nets us an extra 2nd rounder every time!!!) and take either a DE or Center.

I do think he will take Cam Johnson in the 2nd round. Ideal 34ROLB. He can 2 gap, set the edge, cover and he played 34OLB in a 34 at Virginia before they moved to a 4-3.

We did the SC - Tenn.game last night and SC DE Ingram was moved inside to rush from the DT spot and was fairly effective. He might be a guy to consider looking at in the second round.

I am still all about Upshaw and Hightower in the first round. However if Upshaw runs poorly or we do stick with the 4-3, then I have to consider Ingram in the second round.

CB Gilmore of SC is talented, smooth backpedal, nice turn and explode. Decent effort in run support. He gives a huge cushion,don;t know if that is the scheme or him. Good ball skills and ads value on ST. In my mind, I struggle to see him in our soft zone defense.

 

[rdf63]

Absolutely Not!!!! Another high CB pick would do nothing to improve the defense because the real problem is a poor front seven. Haynesworth, Brace, Ellis, Guyton are all players with too many questions. The Pats need to spend the high draft picks and I think both 1st and 2nd rounds only on defense and specifically on DE, DT, LB and SS. Once the Pats strenghten the Front 7, the cb and safeties could all look like pro-bowl players.
Who on the Patriots defense looks like they are having a Pro-bowl type season....Noboby!

 

[TriplecHamp]

Absolutely Not!!!! Another high CB pick would do nothing to improve the defense because the real problem is a poor front seven. Haynesworth, Brace, Ellis, Guyton are all players with too many questions. The Pats need to spend the high draft picks and I think both 1st and 2nd rounds only on defense and specifically on DE, DT, LB and SS. Once the Pats strenghten the Front 7, the cb and safeties could all look like pro-bowl players.
Who on the Patriots defense looks like they are having a Pro-bowl type season....Noboby!

So we should just pick the best pass rusher available even if he grades out lower than the best DB?

 

[Daigle]

Well S is maybe biggest need but that is pretty expensive for a 1st so maybe we find one in second or third round. I really like this Burfict guy or Zach Brown. Lets get some star players at LB and then a safety later. Maybe even use the second 2nd on a CB but not sure we need it if Glass I becomes healthy. How about a over the top receiver ?

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Well S is maybe biggest need but that is pretty expensive for a 1st so maybe we find one in second or third round. I really like this Burfict guy or Zach Brown. Lets get some star players at LB and then a safety later. Maybe even use the second 2nd on a CB but not sure we need it if Glass I becomes healthy. How about a over the top receiver ?

Yea there isn't a safety with a 1st round grade in this draft. The problem with CB is the same with WR, usually the drop off is pretty significant from the top tier prospects. There is Morris Claiborne, Dre Kirkpatrick & everyone else.

I like Stephon Gilmore personally and he plays in the Sec which is always a plus but he isn't a zone corner as someone else pointed out. I would prefer we look for man style CB's in the future anyways tbh. Zone is something to be mixed in. I don't think in today's nfl you can just sit in it for 60 min and be successful against the better QB's.

 

[Frick]

All good thoughts, it sure has been a roller coaster year as far as figuring team needs. Wasn't it just yesterday when we were 14-2 and needed to plug a few holes? We had to draft Dowling, Ridley & Vereen, had to have them. We could have gotten 3 UDFAs to go IR & stand in the shadows.

The Solder pick I could live with because anytime we draft someone to protect TB is an okay pick. When he held out & didn't sign right away I jumped all over him in the "Who will be the biggest bust thread" only because I try not to swear & honestly any draft pick that holds out I get crazy. When the Jets are brought up I lose it completely. But as far as BB & 1st rd draft picks if anything he will keep them too long.

On another thread I asked how we should best use the picks we have, I'm stumped & need the cool heads found at the draft threads to get me out of this (I hope) temporary coma.

 

[Daigle]

Yea there isn't a safety with a 1st round grade in this draft. The problem with CB is the same with WR, usually the drop off is pretty significant from the top tier prospects. There is Morris Claiborne, Dre Kirkpatrick & everyone else.

I like Stephon Gilmore personally and he plays in the Sec which is always a plus but he isn't a zone corner as someone else pointed out. I would prefer we look for man style CB's in the future anyways tbh. Zone is something to be mixed in. I don't think in today's nfl you can just sit in it for 60 min and be successful against the better QB's.

Im also in for the man-to-man CBs. Seems we ourselves struggle with this bump and run and we may see more of that in the future. Also having one Revis caliber would make it easier for the rest of the team. Just shut one side down with a star CB and free up guys for the other sides zone.

Maybe we need a star WR as well. I think Wes is good but not really over the top star player. Teams clog the medium lanes and we struggle.

Also is the O-line really that great in running the ball ? I think pass is ok but isnt the running game struggling a bit now ?

If we go back to 3-4 LB is the way to go. More versatile do-it-all players who can fill or rush for the 3 guys up front. That might be enough for the secondary if we can get some better S. Then use the picks on a C and lets hope Cannon is a fit for the futere. Also, WR, we need someone to be a threat on go-routes.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Also having one Revis caliber would make it easier for the rest of the team. Just shut one side down with a star CB and free up guys for the other sides zone.

Revis is the best cb since Deion Sanders. When it's over he'll probably go down one of the top 3-5 of all time. Super Bowl era. Sanders, Haynes, Blount, W. Brown and Revis. You don't pick up a guy like him at 27th in the 1st round and feel you've washed your hands of the problem. We ain't getting a guy that good where we pick. I think adding a veteran thru free agency should be enough. I think McCourty returns to form. If memory serves me correctly, Ty Law really struggled in year 2 or 3. He turned out fine. Have that vet there in case Dowling isn't ready. You can't write Dowling off yet because he got hurt. Arrington is ok as a 3rd or 4th cb. Just not a top 2 guy.

We need to spend picks on the front 7. Not every pick makes it. As we have seen. Not just for us. But, for everybody. Ignoring it won't make it better. I think we go back to the 3-4. NG Vince/Love RDE Haynesworth/Deaderick/Vet FA LDE #1 PICK and Brace. Bring Carter and Mark Anderson back as situational pass rusher when we use the 4-2-5 front.
Draft two olb in the first two rounds. And, a S with the other 2nd. My draft right now is;

1A Devon Still DE/DT - PSU - Looks like a young Ty Warren. Can push Brace for time at LDE and might be able to start right away.
1b Vinny Curry OLB/DE - Marshall - Has the length BB likes at olb. Need someone at ROLB who can get after the qb. I like Courtney Upshaw. But, he doesn't seem to fit our profile.
2a Safeties are hard to evaluate without the game film. One of the Bama guys could fall either Barron or Lester. McDonald - usc. Martin - Ok. St. Let's say Robert Lester - Alabama
2b Doubling up on that olb position. Want a potential strong side one to back up Ninko. Cam Johnson from UVA seems to be coming on.

I would love to add a C and WR. But, Connolly is better at c than the players on our defensive front. I think Koppen comes back for a year or two also. Trade for a wr? Like we did with Moss/Welker/Branch(2ND time around). Seems to work better than drafting them.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Revis is the best cb since Deion Sanders. When it's over he'll probably go down one of the top 3-5 of all time. Super Bowl era. Sanders, Haynes, Blount, W. Brown and Revis. You don't pick up a guy like him at 27th in the 1st round and feel you've washed your hands of the problem. We ain't getting a guy that good where we pick. I think adding a veteran thru free agency should be enough. I think McCourty returns to form. If memory serves me correctly, Ty Law really struggled in year 2 or 3. He turned out fine. Have that vet there in case Dowling isn't ready. You can't write Dowling off yet because he got hurt. Arrington is ok as a 3rd or 4th cb. Just not a top 2 guy.

Champ Bailey says hi. Prime champ was every bit as good as Revis is today. Dowling will be back and contributing next season but you can never have too many good corners, look at Philly. Dowling can also probably play a little fs. If the Pats see the chance to grab an impact player in the secondary I hope they take it.

 

[rdf63]

Picking another DB in the 2012 NFL Draft reminds me of what Matt Millen did at Detriot and picking WR in the first round for three consecutive years.

2003 - Charles Rogers WR MSU
2004 - Roy Williams WR Texas
2005 - Mike Williams WR USC

BB - you already have spent a 1st round and early 2nd round picks the last 2 years on McCourty and Dowling and please don't make the same mistake Detriot did. Don't waste good 2012 picks on a DB.

 

[Daigle]

Revis is the best cb since Deion Sanders. When it's over he'll probably go down one of the top 3-5 of all time. Super Bowl era. Sanders, Haynes, Blount, W. Brown and Revis. You don't pick up a guy like him at 27th in the 1st round and feel you've washed your hands of the problem. We ain't getting a guy that good where we pick. I think adding a veteran thru free agency should be enough. I think McCourty returns to form. If memory serves me correctly, Ty Law really struggled in year 2 or 3. He turned out fine. Have that vet there in case Dowling isn't ready. You can't write Dowling off yet because he got hurt. Arrington is ok as a 3rd or 4th cb. Just not a top 2 guy.

We need to spend picks on the front 7. Not every pick makes it. As we have seen. Not just for us. But, for everybody. Ignoring it won't make it better. I think we go back to the 3-4. NG Vince/Love RDE Haynesworth/Deaderick/Vet FA LDE #1 PICK and Brace. Bring Carter and Mark Anderson back as situational pass rusher when we use the 4-2-5 front.
Draft two olb in the first two rounds. And, a S with the other 2nd. My draft right now is;

1A Devon Still DE/DT - PSU - Looks like a young Ty Warren. Can push Brace for time at LDE and might be able to start right away.
1b Vinny Curry OLB/DE - Marshall - Has the length BB likes at olb. Need someone at ROLB who can get after the qb. I like Courtney Upshaw. But, he doesn't seem to fit our profile.
2a Safeties are hard to evaluate without the game film. One of the Bama guys could fall either Barron or Lester. McDonald - usc. Martin - Ok. St. Let's say Robert Lester - Alabama
2b Doubling up on that olb position. Want a potential strong side one to back up Ninko. Cam Johnson from UVA seems to be coming on.

I would love to add a C and WR. But, Connolly is better at c than the players on our defensive front. I think Koppen comes back for a year or two also. Trade for a wr? Like we did with Moss/Welker/Branch(2ND time around). Seems to work better than drafting them.

Yes Revis is great but in theory we have the munition to trade up although I agree with BB in not doing it. About not getting a Revis with a 27 pick, we got Brady in the 6th so everything is possible. If BB feels the talent is there then he might make the pick. The point I was making is that we might wanna pick CB in this draft and maybe we hit this time.

As people pointed out, the front 7 needs work too, I am mostly concerned with the LBs and would love Burfict on this team for example. Since we always trade away the second pick we got in each round I think we should go LB, assuming we can get a guy we want, then safety or maybe WR if we can get a over the top player. Otherwise S and then its back to valuepicks etc.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Revis is the best cb since Deion Sanders. When it's over he'll probably go down one of the top 3-5 of all time. Super Bowl era. Sanders, Haynes, Blount, W. Brown and Revis. You don't pick up a guy like him at 27th in the 1st round and feel you've washed your hands of the problem. We ain't getting a guy that good where we pick. I think adding a veteran thru free agency should be enough. I think McCourty returns to form. If memory serves me correctly, Ty Law really struggled in year 2 or 3. He turned out fine. Have that vet there in case Dowling isn't ready. You can't write Dowling off yet because he got hurt. Arrington is ok as a 3rd or 4th cb. Just not a top 2 guy.

We need to spend picks on the front 7. Not every pick makes it. As we have seen. Not just for us. But, for everybody. Ignoring it won't make it better. I think we go back to the 3-4. NG Vince/Love RDE Haynesworth/Deaderick/Vet FA LDE #1 PICK and Brace. Bring Carter and Mark Anderson back as situational pass rusher when we use the 4-2-5 front.
Draft two olb in the first two rounds. And, a S with the other 2nd. My draft right now is;

1A Devon Still DE/DT - PSU - Looks like a young Ty Warren. Can push Brace for time at LDE and might be able to start right away.
1b Vinny Curry OLB/DE - Marshall - Has the length BB likes at olb. Need someone at ROLB who can get after the qb. I like Courtney Upshaw. But, he doesn't seem to fit our profile.
2a Safeties are hard to evaluate without the game film. One of the Bama guys could fall either Barron or Lester. McDonald - usc. Martin - Ok. St. Let's say Robert Lester - Alabama
2b Doubling up on that olb position. Want a potential strong side one to back up Ninko. Cam Johnson from UVA seems to be coming on.

I would love to add a C and WR. But, Connolly is better at c than the players on our defensive front. I think Koppen comes back for a year or two also. Trade for a wr? Like we did with Moss/Welker/Branch(2ND time around). Seems to work better than drafting them.

I could easily live with this draft. For 2B a guy that has flown under the radar because of injury, and he is still playing injured, is Jake Bequette of Arkansas. He is 6'5" and 265 and is sudden, when healthy. Not the best run defender and has zero coverage experience, but even injured is still getting pressure on QB's.

A later guy that I think could develop as a really good OLB for us in the 3-4 is Malik Jackson of Tenn. He is fast and sudden but not noticed because Tenn is having a woeful year and has run out of healthy LBers on their defense.

Bottom line their are tons of guys in this draft that can play OLB in our defense and develop into special players if BB invests the time and resources necessary to develop players at this position.

BB the GM has to realize that ignoring this position draft after draft is making him the laughing stock of the entire NFL and directly causing him to have the 32nd ranked defense in the NFL which is then killing his reputation as a great coach!

BB - time to take a long hard look in the mirror, your way is NOT working, YOUR defense sucks to high heaven and is the worst in the entire league!
YOU are NOT doing what is needed to improve the team.

 

[ay-yo]

The team clearly needs a S to pair with Chung. We also need a 3rd corner we can rely on. With his health issues Dowling is not reliable. Arrington is a decent starter but great as your 3rd corner. I'd love to see the Pats get aggressive in FA and sign Laron Landry and Cortland Finnegan. That'd make the secondary a position of strength on the team and let us go BPA in the draft.