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billdog3484

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Cousins, Great little Saturday breakfast. Two eggs over perfectly with just the right amount of pepper, maple cured bacon (had to share with the cat and dogs!) and a half of a flaky cinnamon role with that vanilla frosting....plus coffee with mint/chocolate moca flavoring and orange juice.


F/
You forgot to
Mention that you had a few bloody Mary’s
 

DW Toys

In the Starting Line-Up
Why on earth would the Panthers trade Horn to us? Wasn’t he the 8th pick? Sounds more like fantasy than reality.

Chanal would be a very good draft pick indeed. Definitely fills a need.
Cousin,
There is a reason and method to my madness. Look at the Panthers picks. They own #6 in the first Round, There next pick is #137 in the fourth Round. That is 131 picks to sit and wait? They need warm bodies at this point.

Please hear me out; Now the Panthers could Trade down? Possibility if GM Fritterer wants to do that.

True..... Jaycee Horn was a top 10 [pick in 2021......but he was injured (foot) and its his abilities they are still banking on with his past performances as a Gamecock.....(as was Gilmore). If a trade can happen I would gamble he is healthy. We have enough depth at CB to bring Horn in slowly to make sure his foot booboo is well.

1-Here is issue one; the Panthers have no Draft capital

2-Pick #6 in this Draft is way too early for any QB in this class. Perhaps toward the middle to end of Round one.

3-Horn might be a superb talent, but his injury set both he and the Panthers back.

4-The Patriots could Draft a CB but at pick #21 they are dropping down the talent pool.

5-The Panthers would like to perhaps move WR Anderson. He never clicked with Darnold which is strange since they were both with the Jets.

6-Anderson has tortured BB upon occasion. It seems like Bill targets his tormentors for bringing them to NE.

7-The Panthers need to figure out if they overdraft a QB now at pick #6 or try to fill holes with talent either acquiring more picks, or players, or both. Horn can't fill every position the Panthers need. Is he expendable?

8-Do you "sacrifice" Horn for a late round in the first QB pick, an additional Draft pick and some players for your roster?

9-The Panthers have had excellent luck with big receivers like Kelvin Benjamin and Devin Funchess. Maybe Harry will blossom.

10- In my scenario besides Draft picks, we are actually giving up two high picks in Harry and CB JoJuan Williams who might flourish with a scenery change. They have NFL tape, good or bad as it is. Horn has '0" tape.

11- With our two trade downs, one with Detroit giving up our #54 in the second plus #21 in the first, we pick up pick #32 and a valuable pick #34 at the top of the second round (the trade values work). So we take said round one pick #32 with the valued fifth year option and send it to the Panthers. We add pick #210 in the 6th round plus two players who were actually high Draft choices who with playing time, could ball out.

12-That pick #32 should still hold one of the top QB's in the 2022 class...........perhaps Willis? Now the Panthers can take a Pass Rusher they might need more than a CB at pick #6 (or trade down for more wampum) than if they sit on the "definite maybe" Horn. He's our problem if we trade.

13-So on paper the deal looks fair. You're trading a first Round pick #32 plus a player Drafted in the first round and a player drafted in the second round plus yet another pick for Horn (you might have to sacrifice and he is coming back from injury)and Robbie Anderson who you want to move.

14-Parker was a quality WR pick up from Miami but has had Harry-esque injury problems. He does not take the top off the Defense. Anderson can be that guy. So you have four "intermediate" type WRs in Bourne, Meyers, Agholor and now Parker, but........ your field stretcher and it can be Anderson.

15-Still need a slot guy. I have Agholor on the move further on. Perhaps we trade for a Shenault or Draft a Skyy Moore. If I were a gambling man I thing BB takes a swing at the Rutgers (are we shocked!!!) kid Bo Melton with 4.34 time in the 40, Melton also had a 38-inch vertical (t-7th) and a three-cone time of 6.98 seconds (3rd). Melton projects as a slot receiver, and was a multi-year team captain. Not that Melton is a binkie of mine. Just look at the tea leaves. He probably lasts into Round 3. Impressed at Senior Bowl as well.

Savvy?

DW Toys
 

Triumph

Hall of Fame Poster
We've used ONE draft pick on a WR in the first 3 rounds in the last decade.

ONE!!!

Maybe the problem isn't scouting WRs, but DRAFTING them!!!
I have done the comparison with the Steelers numerous times.

The Pats spend plenty of draft picks on WRs, but their success rate is pitiful. Antonio Brown was a 5th round pick in the same draft where Pitt selected Emanuel Sanders. It matters little which round the Pats take a WR because hes bound to be a Bust.

20 years ago BB hit on Deon Branch and David Givens. They have long gray beards now. Malcom Mitchell had injury issues at Georgia, but go on and roll the dice anyway. Aaron Dobson 2nd, Chad Jackson 2nd. Bethel Johnson 3rd. I dont even want to go back and look at the WRs who were studs taken after these 3 Stooges.

The problem is identifying an NFL caliber WR.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
I have done the comparison with the Steelers numerous times.

The Pats spend plenty of draft picks on WRs, but their success rate is pitiful. Antonio Brown was a 5th round pick in the same draft where Pitt selected Emanuel Sanders. It matters little which round the Pats take a WR because hes bound to be a Bust.

20 years ago BB hit on Deon Branch and David Givens. They have long gray beards now. Malcom Mitchell had injury issues at Georgia, but go on and roll the dice anyway. Aaron Dobson 2nd, Chad Jackson 2nd. Bethel Johnson 3rd. I dont even want to go back and look at the WRs who were studs taken after these 3 Stooges.

The problem is identifying an NFL caliber WR.
Those were 12 years ago or older. A long time ago.
 

Triumph

Hall of Fame Poster
Those were 12 years ago or older. A long time ago.
The issue is in scouting and selecting WRs on draft days.

Anquan Boldin was picked after Bethel Johnson.
Tyreek Hill was picked after Malcom Mitchell.
Greg Jennings was picked after Chad Jackson.
Mike Wallace was picked after Brandon Tate.
Keenan Allen was picked after Aaron Dobson.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
The issue is in scouting and selecting WRs on draft days.

Anquan Boldin was picked after Bethel Johnson.
Tyreek Hill was picked after Malcom Mitchell.
Greg Jennings was picked after Chad Jackson.
Mike Wallace was picked after Brandon Tate.
Keenan Allen was picked after Aaron Dobson.
You could do this for every single team.

We don't have homegrown WRs NOW because we didn't draft more than one in the top rounds in the last 11 years.

That is a severe lack of resources. Compare to the Steelers, who drafted 8 of them in the last 8 years. And they only hit on 50% of those 8.

Let me say it's really really weird that you're critiquing the Patriots for their selection of Mitchell, a guy who went in the 4th round and who was a huge key to a Super Bowl victory. I would count Mitchell as a hit, a well scouted player. I'd also include Berrios as a hit as a 7th rounder.

But the premium guys around the league, they mostly go in the early rounds. Very few gems are found in the later rounds.

The Patriots simply must expend more resources.

We've had like 15-18 picks (I forget the exact number) over the entirety of Belichick's tenure in all rounds, and of those, Givens, Branch, Edelman, Mitchell and Berrios have been hits. That's somewhere between 28-33%. That's not wildly off the league average.

But what is off the league average is the amount of premium picks. We spend so little of those.
 

40yrpatsfan

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
The issue is in scouting and selecting WRs on draft days.

Anquan Boldin was picked after Bethel Johnson.
Tyreek Hill was picked after Malcom Mitchell.
Greg Jennings was picked after Chad Jackson.
Mike Wallace was picked after Brandon Tate.
Keenan Allen was picked after Aaron Dobson.
The Bethel and Malcom picks were OK. Jackson was a bad pick in hindsight at like #35, but he was highly rated from a top program. The Tate pick was bad, he obviously lacked the talent, but it was late 3rd round. Dobson had good potential, but they shouldn't have missed on Allen.

Harry has turned out to the worst one, especially when coupled with giving up a 2nd for Sanu. If those 2 moves had been for Emmanuel Sanders and Deebo/AJ Brown, imagine.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
The Patriots prefer veteran WR’s who can understand their complex system over rookies.

WR’s across the board have one of the highest failure rates in the draft. This is heightened when they’re drafted into one of the most difficult systems to learn in the NFL.

So the Patriots don’t usually draft WR’s… much to the chagrin of the “weapons” crowd. BB drafted two WR’s the who were Super Bowl MVP’s, so he can do it, he just prefers not to for good reason.
 

DW Toys

In the Starting Line-Up
The Patriots prefer veteran WR’s who can understand their complex system over rookies.

WR’s across the board have one of the highest failure rates in the draft. This is heightened when they’re drafted into one of the most difficult systems to learn in the NFL.

So the Patriots don’t usually draft WR’s… much to the chagrin of the “weapons” crowd. BB drafted two WR’s the who were Super Bowl MVP’s, so he can do it, he just prefers not to for good reason.
Cousin, I agree, It's also about maturity. Some kids never cared a lick about scholastic ventures in college. It was all about what was on the field that could be exploited for coin.

So many of these kids might have street smarts but are left in the dust as far as the incredible book work required for the professional WR.
They might have been the "hot shot" on campus but "playbook smart" is required in the NFL.

So a seasoned veteran who has seen an actual NFL defense, cuts the learning curve when said WR goes to the Pats or perhaps the Colts, Packers etc.

That's why the Parker trade is valuable if he can stay healthy. That's why I would sign OBJ with a contract that would be roster exempt until November. He's not going to help you before then, but if you get creative with the contract, he would be great to have down the last few game and playoff stretch.

That's why I pound the table for a kid like Shenault in Jacksonville who is cheap at $1.8mm, as had some production (63 last year with a bad Jags Team), can play the slot, runs the wildcat and has some Deebo characteristics. The Jags would trade him. Would I pick him as helping this year versus the rookie learning curve?......yep. Parker when healthy is a good WR but he gets hurt. Shenault seems to appear on the filed more.

Best example of a WR who did not get it might be Harry. Loaded with talent. Not doing enough for his game. Mitchell was one WR who picked it up. Injuries were his downfall.

DW Toys
 

Ochmed Jones

Pro Bowl Player
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
The issue is in scouting and selecting WRs on draft days.

Anquan Boldin was picked after Bethel Johnson.
Tyreek Hill was picked after Malcom Mitchell.
Greg Jennings was picked after Chad Jackson.
Mike Wallace was picked after Brandon Tate.
Keenan Allen was picked after Aaron Dobson.

That may be true, but we can easily beat that.

How many decent receivers were drafted after bb went rogue and over ruled the entire draft room to take a fire hydrant named harry?
 

50-yard-line

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Mitchell was one WR who picked it up. Injuries were his downfall.

DW Toys
Look at Dobson’s rookie year and his performance when he came back from injury, before getting injured again. People talk about Mitchell because of the ring, but Dobson was a very similar tale of injury.
 

Kasmir

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
...bb went rogue and over ruled the entire draft room to take a fire hydrant named harry?
BB of course is ultimately responsible for the Harry mistake, and I've heard this claim that only BB wanted to draft Harry, but what's the evidence of his having overruled everyone? Seems highly unlikely...
 

kennyb

In the Starting Line-Up
Can only hope someone stops him from drafting udfa defensive backs in the 2nd round. Wants to show everyone how smart he is, instead he hamstrings the team and makes himself look foolish.

Even if he thinks a particular db is going to be better than expected, you don't draft an otherwise udfa in the 2nd. Makes no sense. This guy was an econ major, he knows that. It's an ego thing.

And when they tell him a wr "can't get open", well, that's bad. Harry is perhaps the worst wr in league history. And our 25 million a year coach drafted him in the 1st round. Shame!
 

goheels22002

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
He's an athletic freak too but his mental processing, FBI isn't where it needs to be. Actually lacking a good deal in that area. I've been going back & forth on him for a while now.
The draft is unusually critical for the Patriots defense. They really need a speed LB with a nose for the football and an upgrade at DL to partner with Barmore. Two immediate contributors in the first two rounds will do a lot for this defense that already has some solid veterans at all three levels. I figure that the Patriots veteran LBs will support whichever rookie LB and will put him where he needs to be.

Safety Jabrill Peppers is a good signing - a talented thumper who played LB at Michigan and joins Kyle Dugger as another hard-hitting safety/CB working with excellent veteran leaders. I also like that Malcolm Butler is back in the fold. I hope he makes the team and closes out his career with a couple of solid seasons.
 

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