Semi-OT: Tank Gate

[RobertWeathers]

What, 1978 ain't recent?

Guess I gotta change my avatar...

It is for old people like you and I

 

[Brandon_Cox]

Let me direct your attention to Jan 3, 2021, which was Cam's last game as a Pat. A lot of people on this board (including me) were asking Bill to let Stiddy start against the Jets so we could see what he could do. Bill was like, no Cam gives us the best chance to win. We beat the Jets, even though it hurt our draft position. Bill was determined to do everything possible to win the game, because that's what you're morally obligated to do.

BFlo did the same damn thing in Miami and I respect the hell out of him for that, despite his A-Hole owner trying to get him to tank.

 

[everlong]

If more likely that not knowing balls were deflated gets you a 4 game suspension and the loss of a 1st and 4th round draft picks what does bribing your coach to lose game cost you?



Because Goodell is the commish and he's the owners lacky. There's no way they'll ever admit an owner did this. And Bob instead of screaming at the top of his lungs for payback will just sit there not wanting to piss off any of the other 31 just like he's done before.

 

[doesntmatter1]

I would actually be surprised if anything came of this. Suck for Luck was the most blatant tanking I have seen in football. It didn't matter how hard the team played when they sabotaged the starting qb position that year. They made no attempt to bench the dude and only replaced him once a vet came in with little to no time to acclimate so late into the season.

Our coaching tree really likes scandals and drama. Mangini with spygate garbage. McDaniels had has share and now Flores

 

[fourhour]

Suckforbucks-gate has a little ring to it!

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I guess you don't watch EU football because its overall competitive balance sucks and graft is rife.

Other than the Leicester City one in a million situation you simply do not see anyone make a breakthrough, and in the rare cases that they do, the rich teams just make "offers we can't refuse" to buy the good players and it all falls apart again.

We had an interesting discussion of this in our non-Pats parts of the forum within the last year or so ago when the rich teams floated the idea of a "super league".

It's really ironic that EU system is more capitalist than the NFL system is, or put another way, the NFL system is more socialist than world football is.

I'm not saying that the entire European relegation system should be adopted. I agree that there are so many problems with it. I think it would be awesome if 10-15 football teams formed some kind of minor league. It's been attempted so many times because the sport is so popular, and there's always a high demand, but usually leagues fail (though not so with the AAFC, which brought over the Browns and 49ers in 1950, and with the AFL, obviously.) So it would be great if there were a bunch of teams playing one league below the NFL - teams that may have big sponsors and playing in cities like Portland, Salt Lake City, etc. And the top two teams could enter the NFL, while the bottom two NFL teams would be relegated. That sure would light a fire under some asses to start playing hard and stop with this crap.

In terms of in-season tournaments, the NBA has seriously discussed something like this, but it's kind of stupid just to have all the actual NBA teams play against each other. What would be cool is some kind tournament where all the best pro teams around the world would also compete in a single elimination style tournament. For the NFL, this is a challenge, and I doubt they could really pull it off, but I like the idea of something to play for beyond a trophy for which you have absolutely no chance.

 

[Chevy]

 

[Simpelton]

Man, this sport needs:

-A relegation system
-More team prizes than a league champion (like other tournaments, cups)

Yeah, I get that I sound like a European soccer fan; I don't love that sport, but the system makes a lot of sense. It's such an all-or-nothing league, and you really are better off overall going 5-11 than 7-9.

Here's a totally mind-blowing idea for all of American sports...ready for it?

-Teams shouldn't be rewarded (draft order, waiver order) for losing.

Yes, it is very possible to do this. Not every professional sports league awards the worst teams, or at least not to the extent as American sports, which often seeks parity moreseo than others.

Do a cross section draft structure.
Teams #16 and 17 draft first, followed by 15 and 18, then 14 and 19, then so on. Start in the middle, counting up one, then down one.

That way the two teams with the worsts picks are the SB winner and the team with the worst record in football..

You'll see a rush to the middle that you wouldn't believe. every team will be competing to at least break even to get the best possible chance to compete. even better, mediocre teams have the best of all possible chances to get the over the top piece they need which will drastically broaden the chances for teams that are clearly trying, and increase parity. Teams will flight like hell to be at least semi competitive and terrible teams will be under enormous pressure to improve, even if only a little bit.

It would fix the problem almost instantly by creating a negative incentive to tank and foster an environment where 8-9 teams that aren't great but are clearly making an effort, will get a leg up, while teams that are not trying to win get punished for it..

 

[Bill Lee]

I'm not saying that the entire European relegation system should be adopted. I agree that there are so many problems with it. I think it would be awesome if 10-15 football teams formed some kind of minor league. It's been attempted so many times because the sport is so popular, and there's always a high demand, but usually leagues fail (though not so with the AAFC, which brought over the Browns and 49ers in 1950, and with the AFL, obviously.) So it would be great if there were a bunch of teams playing one league below the NFL - teams that may have big sponsors and playing in cities like Portland, Salt Lake City, etc. And the top two teams could enter the NFL, while the bottom two NFL teams would be relegated. That sure would light a fire under some asses to start playing hard and stop with this crap.

In terms of in-season tournaments, the NBA has seriously discussed something like this, but it's kind of stupid just to have all the actual NBA teams play against each other. What would be cool is some kind tournament where all the best pro teams around the world would also compete in a single elimination style tournament. For the NFL, this is a challenge, and I doubt they could really pull it off, but I like the idea of something to play for beyond a trophy for which you have absolutely no chance.

I agree. It's sure hard to get the ideal situation, but NFL IMO ends up with high competitive balance relative to most of the leagues, IMO. That's not saying things can't be made better.

I'm not sure if relegation is the answer. It makes life extremely difficult for those on the edge. You're out so you hire expensive players to get in. If you get in and stay in for a while you can pay them, if you can't you go bankrupt and a town loses its team and whomever comes next struggles to re-energize the fan base. If you're up you don't know how long you can stay up so it's hard to make long term commitments. It's easy for a rich guy to show up, pump up his fan base for a year or two by throwing in a lot of money but then get bored or go broke and walk away. It makes for a lot of drama if not trauma at the bottom of the league table. It makes for a lot of rich a-holes showing up just to flex for a bit then leave everyone despondent. It tends to make fans gravitate towards the rich teams to avoid getting their nutsack smashed by relegation, so the rich get richer and the poor stay poor.

One thing that NFL has is a decent (not perfect) minimum salary spend. As above, this is what MLB players are *****ing about, they don't have that. The league does revenue sharing but in NFL you have to spend a large percentage of that on players. Given that is the case, even the blind squirrel can find the nut and put together a decent team more often than not. Combine that with salary cap and then reverse order drafting to help out the low end teams, you end up with a better situation than most leagues.

 

[NFL Mystique]

No coach would purposely tank. Why? Because chances are the new coach would benefit most from said tanking. After the former is fired for a losing record.

NFL players trying to get a second contract also don't care about the upcoming draft. They want to make a name for themselves and get paid.

A draft lottery isn't a bad idea. But getting high picks doesn't guarantee success (Jets, Browns, and Washington). And not drafting high doesn't guarantee failure (IE Packers, Patriots, Chiefs, Saints, Titans, and Rams).

 

[Bill Lee]

No coach would purposely tank. Why? Because chances are the new coach would benefit most from said tanking. After the former is fired for a losing record.

NFL players trying to get a second contract also don't care about the upcoming draft. They want to make a name for themselves and get paid.

A draft lottery isn't a bad idea. But getting high picks doesn't guarantee success (Jets, Browns, and Washington). And not drafting high doesn't guarantee failure (IE Packers, Patriots, Chiefs, Saints, Titans, and Rams).

Yeah, I was going to make a similar point, that the draft is an over-rated thing, but that flies in the face of that enormous off-season content generating machine that the NFL draft is. It also pisses off the fantasy football community that thinks you can build teams by picking up a hand full of "name players" and ignore everything else about team building.

 

[Marko]

There's different ways to tank. Not making moves to improve your team or playing an inferior roster are acceptable ways to do it and I think that happens all the time. Maybe playing guys who you want to get a look at and not because they are the best team is another way. Like the Patriots if they wanted to go with Jarrett Stidham at the end of 2020. That's "acceptable" tanking.

Losing games on purpose? That doesn't happen in the NFL. Colts in 2011 finished 2-14 and their coaching staff and front office were all fired. There's no incentive to do that for anyone. They didn't lose on purpose I believe they were really that terrible without an NFL QB and Caldwell at the time was not an NFL level coach.

Unless a team is paid to lose. That's different and I think the NFL has a real problem if Flores can back up what he's saying. Will the league investigate Irsay?

Also if Flores accepted the alleged bribe how would he make his team lose without looking obvious?

Also, would Ross pay for a game they would probably lose anyway

 

[Dr Pain]

On the other hand, this is Hue Jackson who talks a lot of ***. if it was him alone no one would take it seriously.

But Flores is widely considered a competent coach and most fans don't understand why he was fired. if it was because he refused to tank this goes into a whole new level.

If literally ANY other coaches come forward with stories like this I don't see how the NFL avoids instituting a draft lottery, at a minimum.

Is it this or is it because different views on going forward with Tua. I honestly don't know so this is a real question. I think there is a history of coaches being fired for not sharing the same vision as far as 1st round starting QBs.

Funny I just had a thought of 27-21 coach Pete Caroll, the guy got them to the playoffs twice in 3 years and they cut him even though he had the highest win percentage in Patriots history as a coach till that point. They replaced him with a guy who only had 1 winning season and 1 playoff appearance in 5 years with the Cleveland Browns. What were they thinking? There had to be something more behind it and Pete should sue.

 

[FortressX]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Good one

Meyer fired mid season @ 5-3

 

[fightingirish595]

We all know tanking goes on in this league but paying your coaches to lose is some next level sh**. If proven there should be massive fines, loss of multiple high draft picks and ownership should be forced to sell.

It’s match fixing

 

[fightingirish595]

The nfl has a possible match fixing scandal right in front of its eyes and the media isn’t really catching on

 

[Ring 6]

Is it this or is it because different views on going forward with Tua. I honestly don't know so this is a real question. I think there is a history of coaches being fired for not sharing the same vision as far as 1st round starting QBs.

Funny I just had a thought of 27-21 coach Pete Caroll, the guy got them to the playoffs twice in 3 years and they cut him even though he had the highest win percentage in Patriots history as a coach till that point. They replaced him with a guy who only had 1 winning season and 1 playoff appearance in 5 years with the Cleveland Browns. What were they thinking? There had to be something more behind it and Pete should sue.

There are a lot of examples of guys who were fired with better success than Flores.

 

[RobertWeathers]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Good one

Meyer fired mid season @ 5-3

That situation was a whole different ball of wax.

 

[Dr Pain]

The nfl has a possible match fixing scandal right in front of its eyes and the media isn’t really catching on

Lets see if there is one scrap of evidence he produces. He should have gone to the FBI then and worn a wire

 

[Seacoast Fan]

No idea what Jackson claims. Can't even spell his first name correctly.

Pronouncing Hue can be way difficult.