Semi-OT: Tank Gate

[RobertWeathers]

Good catch on the terminology.

It's sports bribery. Hate the term but thats what it is.

The 20-count indictment charges that between December 2004 and December 2006 Manni and Karam paid money, and other things of value, to University of Toledo athletes in order to influence, or attempt to influence, the final score of particular football and basketball games. Manni and Karam would then place bets on these games.

The charges carried 5 years in prison and/or $250k in fines.

Eight Charged in “Point Shaving” Scheme at the University of Toledo

archives.fbi.gov

 

[Delicate Genius]

36 losses in 2.5 seasons with the Browns. Hue Jackson must be the richest man in football.

 

[mgteich]

No one forces teams to play their starters or their best at the end of the season. There are lots of ways of not playing to win. Players with minor injuries can be kept out. There are many ways to not giving your team the best chance to win an individual game.

HOWEVER, giving orders to lose is another level entirely.

Of course, the ironic thing is that MIA had a long winning streak, won their last game, and looked like an improving team with an improving future (given their cap position and draft choices).

If the charges are true, there indeed should be pressure for the team to be sold. Since this "offer" and directive did not affect any games, the punishment should be all on the owner: high cash penalties and banishment from ownership. If he is allowed to continue in ownership, then I would think that losing draft choices would be appropriate.
=====================
There is little incentive to win the last game or two for lots of teams. That's just the way it is. If the league views this as a serious problem, I guess a lottery for the first so many picks (perhaps 5-7) would be appropriate. However, all of those teams should have an equal chance at each slot.

 

[tasmlab]

Criminality/ethics aside, it's hard to imagine the Browns of the past 20 years looking at the W/L totals and think "boy, we should probably lose some more games"

 

[mgteich]

Let's keep in mind that when it comes to the owners, winning is in service to financial gain. The other gratifications are incidental.

If you believe that owners of the top franchises don't try to win, I will leave you to your opinions.

Kraft has had sellouts for his entire ownership period because winning is #1. Winning helps lead the ownership to financial success.

However, as I have said, it arguably helps a team to sit players with minor injuries, especially late in the season. As far as the last game, that is also an argument that goes both ways. However, a team can sit starters because they think it gives them a better chance of winning playoff games.

 

[Ring 6]

Meh. I think Hue Jackson was an awful coach. His team would've stunk regardless.

One of the issues is one of the lawyers gives names of people implicating tanking. The problem? Said people weren't associated with the organization at the time. I believe it was Brown & Berry?

If Hue was offered money to lose, then he must have received payment. If so, he is guilty of fixing games.
Also if Flores was told he was going to be paid 100,000 for every loss and he lost 11 games, wouldn’t he need to show the 1.1 mill payment to prove his claim?

 

[FortressX]

Is Hue already walking back his comments ?

When asked if Browns incentivized losing, Hue Jackson says he "could not win" in that situation

After Brian Flores alleged in a lawsuit that the Dolphins offered him $100,000 per loss during the 2019 season, former Browns head coach Hue Jackson suggested something similar happened while he was going 1-31 during his first two seasons on the job.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

If Hue was offered money to lose, then he must have received payment. If so, he is guilty of fixing games.
Also if Flores was told he was going to be paid 100,000 for every loss and he lost 11 games, wouldn’t he need to show the 1.1 mill payment to prove his claim?

Offered and accepted are 2 different verbs

 

[Ring 6]

Offered and accepted are 2 different verbs

So you are saying they refused the check?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

So you are saying they refused the check?

I have no idea. Was a check(s) ever written? I don't know but I doubt it.
He could have refused the $100K/game offer just as he refused to meet with the mystery QB on the owner's yacht.

 

[Ring 6]

Offered and accepted are 2 different verbs

FYI this is the claim re:Ross

Indeed, during the 2019 season, Miami’s owner, Stephen Ross, told Mr. Flores that he would pay him $100,000 for every loss,

Not offered but told him he would get, so if that’s true there should be a check for 1.1 mill cashed or uncashed. The suit doesn’t say he told Ross to F off.
Didn’t Jackson say he got a healthy amount, or something like that?

 

[Ring 6]

I have no idea. Was a check(s) ever written? I don't know but I doubt it.
He could have refused the $100K/game offer just as he refused to meet with the mystery QB on the owner's yacht.

The complaint doesn’t say that.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

No idea what Jackson claims. Can't even spell his first name correctly.

 

[Bill Lee]

Kraft "Good of the 32" should be screaming really loudly at this whole thing and demand franchise crippling punishments for anyone involved.

But he won't.

When the is hitting the fan, it's smart to do your best to not get hit with any.

Who knows what skeletons there are in the closet.

Beides, Krafty Bob knows he dodged a bullet on the whole Orchids of Asia thing.

He won't be willing to go to war over this, although he might silently be egging on any that do.

 

[Ring 6]

Broncos calling Flores a liar


“The allegations from Brian Flores directed towards the Denver Broncos in today’s court filing are blatantly false.

“Our interview with Mr. Flores regarding our head coaching position began promptly at the schedule time of 7:30 a.m. on Jan. 5, 2019, in a Providence, R.I., hotel. There were five Broncos executives present for the interview, which lasted approximately three-and-a-half hours - the fully allotted time - and concluded shortly before 11 a.m.

“Pages of detailed notes, analysis and evaluations from our interview demonstrate the depth of our conversation and sincere interest in Mr. Flores as a head coaching candidate.

“Our process was thorough and fair to determine the most qualified candidate for our head coaching position. The Broncos will vigorously defend the integrity and values of our organization - and its employees - from such baseless and disparaging claims.”

Brian Flores sues NFL for racial discrimination; Broncos involved

Former Miami Dolphins head coach Brian Flores has filed a racial discrimination lawsuit against the NFL, and the Denver Broncos are mentioned.

www.milehighreport.com

 

[Bill Lee]

It's sports bribery. Hate the term but thats what it is.

The charges carried 5 years in prison and/or $250k in fines.

Even more local, the Boston College point shaving scandal featured in Henry Hill's book that never made it into the Goodfellas movie....

1978–79 Boston College basketball point-shaving scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The BC Hoops Scandal: The Story 'GoodFellas' Chose Not To Tell You

“When I received a call from Henry Hill saying I couldn’t play basketball with a broken arm, it was then that I was sort of in over my head’’- Rick Kuhn, forward, Boston College. If you’ve seen

www.tiebreaker.com

 

[Ring 6]

When the is hitting the fan, it's smart to do your best to not get hit with any.

Who knows what skeletons there are in the closet.

Beides, Krafty Bob knows he dodged a bullet on the whole Orchids of Asia thing.

He won't be willing to go to war over this, although he might silently be egging on any that do.

Kraft has never hired a black HC, perhaps he is racist

 

[Bill Lee]

Man, this sport needs:

-A relegation system
-More team prizes than a league champion (like other tournaments, cups)

Yeah, I get that I sound like a European soccer fan; I don't love that sport, but the system makes a lot of sense. It's such an all-or-nothing league, and you really are better off overall going 5-11 than 7-9.

Here's a totally mind-blowing idea for all of American sports...ready for it?

-Teams shouldn't be rewarded (draft order, waiver order) for losing.

Yes, it is very possible to do this. Not every professional sports league awards the worst teams, or at least not to the extent as American sports, which often seeks parity moreseo than others.

I guess you don't watch EU football because its overall competitive balance sucks and graft is rife.

Other than the Leicester City one in a million situation you simply do not see anyone make a breakthrough, and in the rare cases that they do, the rich teams just make "offers we can't refuse" to buy the good players and it all falls apart again.

We had an interesting discussion of this in our non-Pats parts of the forum within the last year or so ago when the rich teams floated the idea of a "super league".

It's really ironic that EU system is more capitalist than the NFL system is, or put another way, the NFL system is more socialist than world football is.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Even more local, the Boston College point shaving scandal featured in Henry Hill's book that never made it into the Goodfellas movie....

1978–79 Boston College basketball point-shaving scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The BC Hoops Scandal: The Story 'GoodFellas' Chose Not To Tell You

“When I received a call from Henry Hill saying I couldn’t play basketball with a broken arm, it was then that I was sort of in over my head’’- Rick Kuhn, forward, Boston College. If you’ve seen

www.tiebreaker.com

Oh yea. Morrie brought it up before he got the ice pick in the back of his head lol.

I was just looking for something a bit more recent.

 

[Bill Lee]

Oh yea. Morrie brought it up before he got the ice pick in the back of his head lol.

I was just looking for something a bit more recent.

What, 1978 ain't recent?

Guess I gotta change my avatar...