Schefter: Ochocinco will stay with Patriots

[BradyFTW!]

Youve made enough excuses to drive the Chad Johnson band wagon.

Was it an excuse when he said that he believes that Ochocinco cannot be as effective here as he was in Cincy, since the Pats prefer to design their plays around better players than him?

Of course not. I dunno why, but the anti-Ocho crowd is becoming even more hostile and irrational over time. It looks like the Pats will never get significant value out of him on the field, but he has enough to offer potentially that they'll keep him around at least into training camp, and hopefully it will work out. There's no real cost in taking a flyer on him at this point. I dunno why this is such a huge problem for some people.

 

[BradyFTW!]

The Pats paid him all that money. It appears the Pats are exhuasting every last option before they cut him loose.

Just because you don't understand how to deal with sunk costs doesn't mean that Belichick doesn't. He had no problem at all cutting Bodden or TBC after paying them a bunch of money.

 

[Triumph]

Just because you don't understand how to deal with sunk costs doesn't mean that Belichick doesn't. He had no problem at all cutting Bodden or TBC after paying them a bunch of money.

I understand how the deal works perfectly.

TBC had surgery in July prior to training camp. Feel free to enlighten yourself on what actually happened Source -- Tully Banta-Cain to be cut by New England Patriots - ESPN Boston

Bodden was cut after camp. Very similar to this Ocho problem. The Pats sunk a bunch of money into him and tried to make it work.

 

[Triumph]

Was it an excuse when he said that he believes that Ochocinco cannot be as effective here as he was in Cincy, since the Pats prefer to design their plays around better players than him?

Of course not. I dunno why, but the anti-Ocho crowd is becoming even more hostile and irrational over time. It looks like the Pats will never get significant value out of him on the field, but he has enough to offer potentially that they'll keep him around at least into training camp, and hopefully it will work out. There's no real cost in taking a flyer on him at this point. I dunno why this is such a huge problem for some people.

Its an excuse to say that Ocho doesnt understand read and react WR routes.

The guy just isnt into the way the Pats run their offense. You can see it. Hes all about being the clown and fun and this aint fun.

 

[Sciz]

Rex Grossman = Bad QB.

Arguing with you is about as productive as arguing with a wall.

 

[Ring 6]

Based upon the 2011 NFL Season:

Stallworth 22 receptions > Johnson 15 receptions
Stallworth 22 receptions > Gonzalez 0 receptions

Chad Johnson - 34 years old
Donte Stallworth - 31 years old

As for special teams, three rosters spots need to be allotted for the long snapper, punter, place kicker in addition to Julian Edelman, Matthew Slater, Marquice Cole, Tracy White.

Are you really saying 22,15 or injured is very different?

As far as special teams, each of those players also have a position.

 

[ATippett56]

Are you really saying 22,15 or injured is very different?

As far as special teams, each of those players also have a position.

Donte Stallworth = 31 years old
Chad Johnson = 34 years old

It's time to move on from Chad Johnson and Shaun Ellis and Gerard Warren.

 

[Ring 6]

This is all I've ever asked in regard to Chad. I was as disappointed as anyone else how his season turned out. But I can at least understand how it came about, and have reasonable expectations that this one MIGHT improve. There was NEVER a need to attack the man on a personal basis. He's a guy who's caught over 11,000 yds of passes in the NFL. He doesn't have to prove anything to a few internet tough guys who need anger management classes.

A point I have made on several occasions that has gone relatively unnoticed is that regardless of who wins those last 3 WR slots, the best of them, barring injury, is STILL going to be just the 5th receiver option for Brady.most of the time. The point being that for all the emotion and anger we've expended on this topic, we are still just talking about little more than quality depth at WR position. The team isn't going to rise OR fall when the final names are revealed.

That being said, I can't help myself from making my own prediction of how an why it will work out the way I say it will

The fab 4

1. Welker - doing what he does
2. Hernandez - the ultimate hybrid receiver - all over the place
3. Lloyd - Takes Branches looks - upgraded our outside the hash threat
4. Gronk - the best traditional 2 way TE in the league

5. Edelman - backs up Welker and all the other things he does
6. Underwood - speed on the outside - beats out Stallworth and Branch because he's younger, has upside, and most importantly he plays STs
7. Johnson - He provides some outside threat opposite Lloyd, and back up in case of injury to Lloyd
8 Fells - #3 TE

JMHO

I think I don't understand how you expect Edelman to become the 3rd WR. He has never earned that spot despite many opportunites, and the talent beyond the first 2 is better than it has been in any of is seasons.
Also not sure why you have 85 or Underwood ahead of 84. What special teams has Underwood played?

 

[Ring 6]

Youve made enough excuses to drive the Chad Johnson band wagon.

I have made a grand total of zero excuses for 85.
Ever.
The fact that you would make that comment only shows you are on the bias due to disliking him side.

 

[Ring 6]

I never proclaimed that Maroney was the #1 RB on this team.

Somebody else has credibility problems.

What does Lawrence Maroney have to do with your saying you could do a better job than BB, and then when I said 'really?' you said of course not because you aren't paid to do it?
You really aren't making any sense.

 

[Ring 6]

Stallworth did more than Chad Johnson on a bad team with a JAG at QB.

He may have made the difference in the Super Bowl. Johnson certainly didnt.

Stallworth caught more passes because there was no one else on his team to throw to.
If the Patriots didn't have Welker or Branch, 85 would have caught more passes. That doesn't mean he would have been a better player.

I may have made a difference in the Super Bowl, but thats not likely either.

 

[Ring 6]

Donte Stallworth = 31 years old
Chad Johnson = 34 years old

It's time to move on from Chad Johnson and Shaun Ellis and Gerard Warren.

Probably is, but moving on to Donte Stallworth doesn't exactly accomplish what you are suggesting.

 

[ATippett56]

Probably is, but moving on to Donte Stallworth doesn't exactly accomplish what you are suggesting.

Only because you say so.

 

[Ring 6]

Every year, posters want to cut the special teamers. IMHO, they are starters and very important to the success of the team. I agree with your list of the most likely players to fill those positions this year. As in any other position, these players can be beaten out or upgraded. We also undervalue utility players, players who can play several positions. Edelman has been a backup slot receiver, our best nickel back, emergency receiver, punt returner, all depending on the needs of the week. He is making this team.

My opinion is you have the causation backwards. He makes the team, therefore he is used in 3 different roles (Sts, rarely used WR, emergency DB) not that he makes the team BECAUSE he plays all those roles. Just my opinion.
Also, best nickel back? Really? He did not play defense nearly as much as people want to pretend he did.

 

[Ring 6]

Only because you say so.

Huh?
So it is good only because you say so?
That's a productive discussion.

Stallworth hasn't produced much of anything since leaving here in 2007. I don't know how you choose him as what the team needs to do to move away from older players.
Given that we have Welker, Llloyd, Branch, Gonzalez, 85, Edelman, Underwood and him to fill what will most likely be 5 spots, only 3 of which will see the field not on special teams, I am not quite sure why you are surpised that I think he is a longshot to make the team.
Do you disagree he has done next to nothing since leaving?

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Would much rather have Stallworth over OchoStinko and his 15 catches. Can't believe they are keeping him

 

[mgteich]

Yup, that's where we are now. see below for some comments.

1) 3 is a pretty low number for draftees. Obviously, you have matched 3 three picks with our 3 weaknesses. If this is the case, we can afford to trade up as well as trading forward.

2) I don't like the lack of depth as RB. You mislead a bit by listing Polite and Larsen running backs. We are really adding a fullback position.

3) I might draft 2 DE's and expect to ditch Brace, or for Pryor not to survive.

2012 New England Patriots roster (speculative)

QB - 3 Brady, Hoyer, Mallett
RB - 4 Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead, Polite/Larsen
TE - 3 Gronkowski, Hernandez, Fells
OL - 9 Light, Vollmer, Solder, Cannon, Waters, Mankins, Gallery, Connolly, Wendell
WR - 6 Welker, Lloyd, Branch, Stallworth, Edelman, Slater

DL - 7 Wilfork, Deaderick, Love, Fanene, Pryor, Brace, 2012 NFL Draft Pick
LB - 8 Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher, White/Koutouvides, Ninkovich, Cunningham, Scott, 2012 NFL Draft Pick
CB - 6 McCourty, Dowling, Arrington, Moore, Allen, Cole
S - 4 Chung, Barrett, Gregory, 2012 Draft Pick

P - Mesko
PK - Gostkowski
LS - Aiken

New England Patriots - 2012 Team Roster - Rotoworld.com Fantasy Sports

At first glance, the weakest positions currently on the New England Patriots roster are the 3-4 defensive ends, the 3-4 outside linebackers, and safety.

 

[patsfan13]

Yup, that's where we are now. see below for some comments.

1) 3 is a pretty low number for draftees. Obviously, you have matched 3 three picks with our 3 weaknesses. If this is the case, we can afford to trade up as well as trading forward.

2) I don't like the lack of depth as RB. You mislead a bit by listing Polite and Larsen running backs. We are really adding a fullback position.

3) I might draft 2 DE's and expect to ditch Brace, or for Pryor not to survive.

Without injuries of course, we will have guys on IR and PUP that is inevitable, NFL football is a season of attrition. So there will be room for others. Carter is my early binkie for PUP.

 

[RayClay]

Stallworth caught more passes because there was no one else on his team to throw to.
If the Patriots didn't have Welker or Branch, 85 would have caught more passes. That doesn't mean he would have been a better player.

I may have made a difference in the Super Bowl, but thats not likely either.

How about on this team?

Wes Welker......112.. 1175

Randy Moss......98.. 1493

Kevin Faulk........47.. 383

Jabar Gaffney.....36.. 449

Ben Watson.......36.. 389

Donte Stallworth 46.. 697

Next excuse...

 

[ATippett56]

Huh?
So it is good only because you say so?
That's a productive discussion.

Stallworth hasn't produced much of anything since leaving here in 2007. I don't know how you choose him as what the team needs to do to move away from older players.
Given that we have Welker, Llloyd, Branch, Gonzalez, 85, Edelman, Underwood and him to fill what will most likely be 5 spots, only 3 of which will see the field not on special teams, I am not quite sure why you are surpised that I think he is a longshot to make the team.
Do you disagree he has done next to nothing since leaving?

Stallworth's 22 receptions is still more productive than Johnson's 15 receptions. Stallworth's salary cap hit is far less than Johnson's salary cap hit. As for Gonzalez, 5 receptions in his last three seasons is far less productive than Stallworth's 22 receptions last season. As for Johnson, if the New England Patriots were satisfied with his production than Stallworth would not have been brought back.