Schefter: Expect Pats to Keep Garoppolo Beyond 2017

[ctpatsfan77]

ctpatsfan77 is always good for dropping knowledge. He's clearly one of our top posters and certainly one of my favorite.

As you mentioned, I don't know that the Matt Cassel FG example was the most appropriate since the league still has to review and approve all deals, but maybe something like Corey Dillon rushing for 2,500 yards would've been used.

I think there used to be a rule to the effect that incentives added midseason for that season were automatically deemed LTBE at the time. In any case, when I wrote NLTBE earlier I meant that it was unlikely/impossible the player would earn it.

The basic idea behind the gambit was:

(1) Team figures out how much cap space it wants to roll over.
(2) Team chooses a player to use the "incentive gimmick" on.
(3) Team and player sign an extension adding the incentive gimmick as well as a small to medium raise for the player.

[FWIW, you're right that the Cassel example doesn't quite work, b/c there's a clause buried in the arcane Article 13 that says you can't have an ST incentive if you didn't play 50% of ST snaps the season before.]

 

[AzPatsFan]

Still a bad analogy. Brady is light years ahead of where elway was when he retired in 1998.

Winning two consecutive Super Bowls is an indication Brady WAS NOT "light years ahead" of Elway.

 

[Ivan]

i am thrilled about the fact that BB thinks Jimmy G is the successor

another decade or so of dominance is on the way

brady is the GOAT and he has made the patriots what they are

but time waits for no man.....and he has 2 years, tops, as the patriots QB

just cutie pie's opinion

So, Garrapolo couldn't make it through two games but they should get rid of the best player in football because Garrapolo will give us " a decade of dominance?

I guess if they keep Brady for the next 10 years to fill in for the 68 quarters Garrapolo isn't available each season then you're right.

The boner for Garrapolo is absolutely absurd.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

So, Garrapolo couldn't make it through two games but they should get rid of the best player in football because Garrapolo will give us " a decade of dominance?

I guess if they keep Brady for the next 10 years to fill in for the 68 quarters Garrapolo isn't available each season then you're right.

The boner for Garrapolo is absolutely absurd.

I'll ask you the same thing I asked Johnson (he was too gutless to answer. I expect/hope you aren't).

If you had to choose between losing JG to another team and having Brady for 1 game, what would you pick?
How about between losing JG and having Brady for 8 games?
Or between losing JG and having Brady for 16 games?
Or between losing JG and having Brady for 24 games?
Or between losing JG and having Brady for 32 games?

Point being that sticking one's head in the sand and saying "Brady, no matter what" isn't realistic. At some point the diminishing number of games Brady has left will outweigh the fact that he's better than JG.

Where that point is depends on how good JG is and how many games Brady has left. And, of course, BB's opinion of both those things.

 

[Oswlek]

Brett favre had a major dropoff in 2010 when he hit 40. If tom has a dropoff and jimmy goes onto be a stud for another team, bill is going to regret it. Can you imagine if ted thompson traded aaron rodgers? He'd be out of a job.

GB's situation in 2007 bears only a passing similarity to the decision NE had in front of it... and no similarity at all with the critical details. It befuddles me why so many bring it up in these discussions.

 

[Joker]

Oswlek!! Where ya been, old timer?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

So, Garrapolo couldn't make it through two games but they should get rid of the best player in football because Garrapolo will give us " a decade of dominance?

One injury—especially against a defense that showed a proclivity for knocking QBs out of games—doesn't prove he's an injury liability.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

GB's situation in 2007 bears only a passing similarity to the decision NE had in front of it... and no similarity at all with the critical details. It befuddles me why so many bring it up in these discussions.

Just to think of a few . . .
(1) Favre didn't play in a Super Bowl in 2007.
(2) The Patriots didn't have to deal with the Favre Annual Retirement Tango.
(3) Favre and Rodgers didn't share an agent.

 

[Ivan]

One injury—especially against a defense that showed a proclivity for knocking QBs out of games—doesn't prove he's an injury liability.

He was needed for four games and didn't make it through two, and Brady played 15 despite taking a hit from Chancellor that would have ended Garrapolo's season. This " the Patriots are going to get 10 years of elite play" out of Garrapolo crap is complete fantasy, and dumping the best player in football to test the Fantasy out is complete idiocy. Could he become a good NFL QB? Possibly. Should they dump Brady to find out? Absolutely not. The fans who want to move on from Brady while he's playing the best football of his career are morons, period. They are buying into the Max Kellerman's ever moving Cliff theory and have absolutely nothing else to support their stupidity with.

Feel free to make a fact based argument about Brady's actually play to support the idea that he is in decline? I'll be waiting.

 

[Ivan]

One injury—especially against a defense that showed a proclivity for knocking QBs out of games—doesn't prove he's an injury liability.

And not being able to make it through the four games they needed him should give everyone serious pause about whether he can endure annNFL season, let alone a decade of football.

 

[Oswlek]

Just to think of a few . . .
(1) Favre didn't play in a Super Bowl in 2007.
(2) The Patriots didn't have to deal with the Favre Annual Retirement Tango.
(3) Favre and Rodgers didn't share an agent.

#2 and the fact that Rodgers was explicitly drafted to supplant Favre are the big ones.

 

[Ring 6]

I'll ask you the same thing I asked Johnson (he was too gutless to answer. I expect/hope you aren't).

Nice job I confront your comments and you put your tail between your legs then bring up this crap in a push hoping I don't see it.

Your question wasn't answered because it is a moronic question. When the decision is made there is not an answer available to how many games will you have Brady.

But I did answer the time if your question by saying 2 years of 2016 Brady, which is all we can judge him as today , plus "QB to be found later is >>>>>>>>>> than garoppolos career will be. (You can reread it to see if I got the exact amount of > the same)

 

[Plunkett2Vataha]

Wrong QB. Try their current GM...

Hey, this may have been just as true for Elway as it was for Manning. I have no issue with someone taking HGH in the context of helping the healing process. But if your job prohibits the taking of a substance such as HGH, and you roll the dice and get caught, then you should suffer the ignominy and the penalty for this. It is so obvious that Manning took it (and set all those records as a result), and the lies about his wife needing it and the mafia-style thuggery of intimidating/threatening witnesses, was disgusting. I have discussions all the time with friends of mine in the New Orleans area who have Manning on a pedestal and say he is innocent of all accusations. They are as obtuse about this as the non-Patriots fans are when they say Brady was guilty of deflating footballs. As for Elway, there was never any proof or "circumstantial" evidence, but we all now the Broncos did what they could to cheat with the intentional and deceitful salary cap violations.

 

[Plunkett2Vataha]

Looks like Antwain Spann got a $2.9M LTBE bonus in 2006. So I guess we could have spent that on a WR.

But yeah, I stand by my original comment, Reche Caldwell wasn't the reason we lost that game to the Colts. The overwhelming majority of the blame goes to the D. Some goes to Caldwell, some goes to the refs who didn't have the balls to make a call on the road, but the majority is on the D giving up 32 in the second half.

I don't give that much blame to the defense for the second half collapse in Indy that year. Sure, they gave up 30+ points, but there were mitigating circumstances. You mentioned the horrendous calls and non-calls by the refs that truly benefited the Colts, and Caldwell's drop was a four point swing (though he was was mugged/held/illegally contacted/interfered with on the 3rd down pass in the end zone), but the defense was impaired due to the flu bug that swept through the team. Also, many people have said the heat was turned up in the dome, and it was very noticeable. You had the Colts trying to explain that by saying it came from being at full capacity and that's why it felt so hot, which is complete BS. I don't fault the Colts so much for trying to gain the advantage that way when they had heard about the flu affecting the Patriots, as just about every other team would have probably tried the same thing. Unless you have video showing this being done intentionally, or if it is specifically against the rules to increase the temperature setting inside a domed stadium (I doubt this very much), then the Colts took advantage of an unexpected situation. The only truly bad defensive play I recall is the horrendous coverage by a Patriots LB on the backup TE who caught a 30 yard pass on the game winning drive. Plus, at some point, you have to give credit to Manning for making some incredible throws.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Ok - so here's a scenario that while hypothetical is, I believe, not particularly unrealistic...

Brady says (or maybe has already said) to BB: "I'm still feeling pretty good, but it's time to spend more time with the family. I'm retiring after the end of the 2018 season, no matter what, and that's final."

Meanwhile, JG says to BB: "Thanks for everything you've done for me, but I'm done with being a backup. I'm starting in 2018, if not here than somewhere else."

So what do you do at the end of 2017? There's only three choices - let Brady go (whether by cut or trade), let JG go (either by letting him walk or franchise and trade), or franchise JG and hold on to him for 2018. Which is it?

Second scenario - same thing except that Brady says he's retiring after 2019 rather than after 2018. What do you do at the end of the 2017 season? If you keep Brady, what do you do at the end of the 2018 season?

 

[zydecochris]

Still a bad analogy. Brady is light years ahead of where elway was when he retired in 1998.

Winning two consecutive Super Bowls is an indication Brady WAS NOT "light years ahead" of Elway.

I see your point about Elway, admittedly he went out on top and didn't completely fall off a cliff like P. Manning did.

Nevertheless I respectfully disagree with you. In Elway's early years he carried the offense. In his two Super Bowl years he had greatly declined, but with such a sensational running game he was able to do "well enough" to win. Many QB's could have won the Super Bowl with that team.

The situation with Tom Brady is light years from that, and IMHO Brady's performance in the Seattle and Atlanta Super Bowl is light years above that of Elway's two Super Bowls. Brady has carried the Patriots offense and come through on the biggest stage with virtually everything on his shoulders in a way that I can't think of any modern day QB, let alone someone at his age. What Super Bowl QB has done more with less than Tom Brady? I can't think of anyone, can anybody else?

 

[AzPatsFan]

I see your point about Elway, admittedly he went out on top and didn't completely fall off a cliff like P. Manning did.

Nevertheless I respectfully disagree with you. In Elway's early years he carried the offense. In his two Super Bowl years he had greatly declined, but with such a sensational running game he was able to do "well enough" to win. Many QB's could have won the Super Bowl with that team.

The situation with Tom Brady is light years from that, and IMHO Brady's performance in the Seattle and Atlanta Super Bowl is light years above that of Elway's two Super Bowls. Brady has carried the Patriots offense and come through on the biggest stage with virtually everything on his shoulders in a way that I can't think of any modern day QB, let alone someone at his age. What Super Bowl QB has done more with less than Tom Brady? I can't think of anyone, can anybody else?

Based on the 2016 season, I don't think BB believes that premise either, any longer. Else why did he do a completely unorthodox, for him, off-season and load up on Offensive players ??? Please offer a creditable reason.

 

[zydecochris]

Based on the 2016 season, I don't think BB believes that premise either, any longer. Else why did he do a completely unorthodox, for him, off-season and load up on Offensive players ??? Please offer a creditable reason.

I think the reason that BB has loaded up on offensive players (focusing on the next two year time frame) is either: i) He expects TB to retire in 1-3 years due to the long term concussion concerns his wife has voiced; or ii) He wants to lighten the load off of his quarterback's shoulders and not expect such a continued superhuman performance level.

I would put it differently, and I haven't seen any decline in Brady whatsoever so far (which I think you might have been implying?), but if your point is that BB has loaded up on running backs and receivers to take some load off of Brady's shoulders, I completely agree. That is what Denver did in Elway's last two Super Bowl seasons (when he was 36 and 37). For the last 4 years or so, I have been expecting BB to do something similar and load up on OL, running backs, and receivers. I was completely wrong (BB has mostly drafted defense), and Brady has somehow won two superbowls anyway with the entire offense on his shoulders. I think BB has finally decided to give Brady all the help he can in the next 1-3 years and try to pull out one or two more rings, while we still have the greatest of all time around.

 

[Ring 6]

Based on the 2016 season, I don't think BB believes that premise either, any longer. Else why did he do a completely unorthodox, for him, off-season and load up on Offensive players ??? Please offer a creditable reason.

He didn't.
He traded for cooks.
He added allen in place of Bennett.
He added gillislee and burkhead in place of blount.
That's not loading up, that's normal.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

And not being able to make it through the four games they needed him should give everyone serious pause about whether he can endure annNFL season, let alone a decade of football.

It raises the question, no more, no less.

I would be a lot more concerned if he had a significant injury in college, but he didn't.