Sad to see BB's legacy ripped apart like this

[50-yard-line]

When you're in the entertainment business, a third of the reason you get paid is because you give miserable people something to ***** about, This thread proves it.

 

[sb1]

Kinda changing topics but still talking about BB's legacy - I always assumed BB created the blueprint against Drew Bledsoe.

I wonder how true this really was. Looked up the game logs. Bill definitely owned Drew, Drew was only 3-9 against Bill's defenses, 13:23 TD INT and a passer rating of only 62 - keeping in mind the era. Bledsoe was a good QB he definitely wasn't a 62 rating type of QB overall or he wouldn't have had nearly as long an NFL career as he did.

Did Bill really "solve" Bledsoe or did he just own him? I think it was the latter.

 

[203Pat]

When you're in the entertainment business, a third of the reason you get paid is because you give miserable people something to ***** about, This thread proves it.

And now you're in here complaining about the complaining. You obviously knew what this thread was about but chose to come in and complain instead of just ignoring it.

 

[Wozzy]

Some Pat's fans aren't built for a rebuild, years of winning has ruined all perspective.

 

[50-yard-line]

And now you're in here complaining about the complaining. You obviously knew what this thread was about but chose to come in and complain instead of just ignoring it.

Not a complaint - are you kidding? This stuff is gold. The entitlement, the Dunning-Krugerism, the echoing of truthiness as if it was an original thought...

Gold, I tell you.

 

[203Pat]

Not a complaint - are you kidding? This stuff is gold. The entitlement, the Dunning-Krugerism, the echoing of truthiness as if it was an original thought...

Gold, I tell you.

You do realize people are allowed to think differently from you. Not everyone needs to agree with everything Bill and the team does. It doesn't make you a better or worse fan to disagree.

 

[Bill Lee]

Belichick is exceptional at building contenders.
No other coach/GM has come close to that in the salary cap Era.

You can already check the box for "replace franchise QB".

What are all you "fire BB" jerkoffs gonna say when this team is contending again...possibly later this season..."I knew it all along"?
Ungrateful/spoiled tossers.
Only took one losing season to see you all turn on him.

He's also an exceptional game manager. He just watched the chaos on Seattle's bench as the clock ticked without him calling the time out they expected him to call. He kept the heat on them and they cracked.

 

[Ian]

0 titles without his all universe QB…who is no longer here

That's a terrible argument. It's essentially a way to penalize him for selecting Brady, arguably the best draft pick of his tenure. That's like penalizing Reid for winning a Super Bowl with Mahomes...he still did it. Again, I hate how it ended, but as important as it is to have a great QB, coaching definitely plays a massive role and discounting everything he did in addition to all of that is a little unfair.

 

[Wozzy]

Belichick is exceptional at building contenders.
No other coach/GM has come close to that in the salary cap Era.

You can already check the box for "replace franchise QB".

What are all you "fire BB" jerkoffs gonna say when this team is contending again...possibly later this season..."I knew it all along"?
Ungrateful/spoiled tossers.
Only took one losing season to see you all turn on him.

This ^ is the funniest part of all this, for years the Brady zealots said when Tom leaves watch what happens, it will takes decades before they find another good QB... one season later and poof... Mac Jones.

Oh yeah, and the #1 DT taken off the draft board as well...

Boy, Bill sure sucks at his job lol!

 

[50-yard-line]

You do realize people are allowed to think differently from you. Not everyone needs to agree with everything Bill and the team does. It doesn't make you a better or worse fan to disagree.

Did I say they did?

No. I said that anyone in the entertainment business learns quickly that no matter what you do or create or achieve, there will be about a third of the fanbase that will, instead of turning the channel, complain and complain and complain.

At this point, to this old man, it's just funny.

 

[50-yard-line]

That's a terrible argument. It's essentially a way to penalize him for selecting Brady, arguably the best draft pick of his tenure. That's like penalizing Reid for winning a Super Bowl with Mahomes...he still did it. Again, I hate how it ended, but as important as it is to have a great QB, coaching definitely plays a massive role and discounting everything he did in addition to all of that is a little unfair.

BB's been a head coach for what, 27 years now (5 before the Pats?). Brady was his QB for most of those years, and the first couple of years with Cleveland, the first year with New England (the rebuild was already underway), and now 2019 and 2020 - clearing the books and resetting the middle class - were all with teams that no coach could have taken far. They were rebuilding years.

The one non-Brady year he had with a contending-calibre team, he went 11-5 with Matt Cassell!

It is an incredibly terrible argument, I agree.

If Brady had gone to the Jets in 2019, he wouldn't sniff a winning season for the rest of his career.

 

[sb1]

That's a terrible argument. It's essentially a way to penalize him for selecting Brady, arguably the best draft pick of his tenure. That's like penalizing Reid for winning a Super Bowl with Mahomes...he still did it. Again, I hate how it ended, but as important as it is to have a great QB, coaching definitely plays a massive role and discounting everything he did in addition to all of that is a little unfair.

I get that for sure but I'd say wins and rings are more of a team accomplishment - coaches can't make all of that happen on their own, but great players can.

I use this example a lot but knowing that an all time great QB like Peyton Manning took a coach like Jim Caldwell to a Super Bowl- and Caldwell is definitely not a good head coach - it's makes it much easier to argue that players matter a lot more than coach does. Saying Bill has 0 rings without Brady isn't saying Bill sucks without Brady and that would be false anyway. It's saying great QB > great coach. We'll see if Mac is great.

 

[sb1]

If Brady had gone to the Jets in 2019, he wouldn't sniff a winning season for the rest of his career.

The thing with Brady is he brings a lot more to a team than just what's on the field on game day. Look at the Bucs.

So why couldn't he have a winning season anywhere he goes?

 

[captain stone]

Belichick is exceptional at building contenders.
No other coach/GM has come close to that in the salary cap Era.

You can already check the box for "replace franchise QB".

What are all you "fire BB" jerkoffs gonna say when this team is contending again...possibly later this season..."I knew it all along"?
Ungrateful/spoiled tossers.
Only took one losing season to see you all turn on him.

And what are all you Bill's The Bestest Evah! jerkoffs gonna say when this team has double-digit losses at the end of the season?

 

[sb1]

You can already check the box for "replace franchise QB".

Hope so too but way too soon to say for sure.

 

[captain stone]

The lemming is strong in this thread.

It is to laugh.

 

[masterbouncer]

The thing with Brady is he brings a lot more to a team than just what's on the field on game day. Look at the Bucs.

So why couldn't he have a winning season anywhere he goes?

Anywhere? lets not pretend the Bucs do not have a great team, look at there Receivers only, Evens, Brown, Godwin, Gronk, Brate, Howard etc.
Its not like Brady went to the Jaguars or Jets and won a ring, he needs the cast as well to excell.

 

[bresna]

Legacy is something that already happened. It's something you leave behind. Nothing Bill is doing will tarnish his legacy of 20 years of winning. You can't erase a legacy.

 

[mgteich]

So why couldn't he have a winning season anywhere he goes?

Spend 5 minutes comparing the non-quarterback players on the jets and the bucs.

Then you will have your answer.

 

[Ian]

I get that for sure but I'd say wins and rings are more of a team accomplishment - coaches can't make all of that happen on their own, but great players can.

I use this example a lot but knowing that an all time great QB like Peyton Manning took a coach like Jim Caldwell to a Super Bowl- and Caldwell is definitely not a good head coach - it's makes it much easier to argue that players matter a lot more than coach does. Saying Bill has 0 rings without Brady isn't saying Bill sucks without Brady and that would be false anyway. It's saying great QB > great coach. We'll see if Mac is great.

I get what you're saying, but look at Peyton Manning. He honestly should have won way more than two rings had he not played for Dungy. We've had the "how many rings would he have won with Bill?" discussion and it counteracts the argument because a great QB still needs a great/really good coach to win it all. That argument right there is the antithesis of this argument.

It's the whole chicken/egg theory. You sort of need both. You can't discount what Bill's accomplished because he happened to have the guy he picked. His track record overall is pretty good. He turned around a Cleveland team who went to the playoffs the previous season and started off decently in 1995 before the wheels came off when the owner pulled the rug out from underneath everyone. In 2000, Bledsoe wasn't good and neither was that roster. That offseason, they made a lot of changes, and obviously, we know what happened from there.

When Brady went down in 2008, they went 11-5 and it's still beyond frustrating that they didn't get a shot to see what that team could have done in the postseason. Last season, my issue is they kept sending Newton out there hoping for different results and ended up 7-9. In my opinion...that's sort of on Belichick, but at the same time - and I've said it before - I truly believe Stidham said/did something that caused him to stay on the sideline.

Either way, as I've said, without going 7-9, they don't get Jones.

But if he starts winning with Jones, do we say, well "he wouldn't be winning if they haven't drafted Jones?"

Where does it end?

I mean, you can say, "is he so great he could win with a not-so-great QB?"

Well...I'd have to say no. But then again, that argument sort of applies to every single coach.

All this proves is that you do need a really good QB to win in this league. Which we sort of knew anyway...so I mean, that's not new. Again, I wish Brady was still here but at the same time, I take some solace in knowing that given how many not so great QBs come and go in this league, the timing of landing Mac - so far - at least is giving us a reason to feel like they're back on the right track.