Rumor: Some Patriots Players Have Doubts About Cam Newton

[203Pat]

Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, Tent Dilfer, Flacco,Peyton Manning in Denver, are a few examples of QBs carried to sb wins. If you include Sb losers like Manning/Caldwell the list is extremely long.

Pete Carroll is not bill belichick any more than Ben Roethlisberger is Tom Brady.
Your argument is no stronger than me saying Belichick could have coached Ben up to do everything Brady did. It’s all made up.

In 2002 Brad Johnson was a Pro Bowler lead the NFC in passer rating at 92.9, and set new team records for touchdowns with 22, completion percentage at 62.3, consecutive passes without an interception with 187, and lowest interception percentage with 1.3%.

Eli Manning was a Pro Bowler in 2011 and between his two Super Bowl winning post seasons he completed 178 of 282 for almost a 63% completion rate, 2000 yards, and threw 15 TD's and 2 picks.

Flacco was also lights out in the post season their Super Bowl year. 58% competition, over 1100 yards, 11 TD's and no picks.

Out of your list only Denver Manning and Dilfer were actually playing poorly and both of them had all time elite defenses backing them up. This narrative that crappy QB's are just winning rings left and right is ridiculous. Are Flacco, Eli, and Johnson hall of famers? No not by any means but they were playing very well and a large part of why they ended up winning rings.

 

[Ring 6]

In 2002 Brad Johnson was a Pro Bowler lead the NFC in passer rating at 92.9, and set new team records for touchdowns with 22, completion percentage at 62.3, consecutive passes without an interception with 187, and lowest interception percentage with 1.3%.

Eli Manning was a Pro Bowler in 2011 and between his two Super Bowl winning post seasons he completed 178 of 282 for almost a 63% completion rate, 2000 yards, and threw 15 TD's and 2 picks.

Flacco was also lights out in the post season their Super Bowl year. 58% competition, over 1100 yards, 11 TD's and no picks.

Out of your list only Denver Manning and Dilfer were actually playing poorly and both of them had all time elite defenses backing them up. This narrative that crappy QB's are just winning rings left and right is ridiculous. Are Flacco, Eli, and Johnson hall of famers? No not by any means but they were playing very well and a large part of why they ended up winning rings.

Come on.

 

[sb1]

Brady agrees with me

"I loved my time and two incredible decades there," Brady told reporters. "My football journey took me to a different place. I certainly could never have accomplished the things in my career without his support and his teachings."

What else would you expect Brady to say?

 

[sb1]

Says who? How are you the one who gets to decide who gets credit. That’s ridiculous.

Why isn’t it? Brady became the best under belichicks tutelage, you have no idea how he would have developed with lesser coaching. Are you saying joe Montana would have been the same QB if bill Walsh didn’t coach him? Fouts without coryell?
Steve Young was a bum until Walsh coached him up. Rich Gannon was a journeyman until Gruden made him an MVP. There are many examples.
Sorry your guess doesn’t jive with facts.

We just saw how he did this year with a coach not named Belichick. Better than Belichick's team.

Any good coach like Belichick maximizes the talent of their players and their team to give them the best chance to win. They don't carry their QB to titles. QB's however can and have carried coaches to success and championships. It's already been demonstrated.

 

[PScottman]

They would have had a tough time getting to 10-6 w/ Tom last year.

Especially given Brady's not known for stopping the run - that team's Achilles heel and the same one that bounced the team the year prior (Titans).

 

[sb1]

Come on.

What was inaccurate about that?

 

[203Pat]

Come on.

When presented with facts just complain.

 

[PScottman]

Tom knew Bill needed to rebuild and could not pay him market prices.

He also knew that he would not get any pieces with which to be competitive for a title - no WRs, TEs for the offense nor DTs and LBs to fix a terrible run defense because no matter HOW he restructured his deal (I mean they ended up paying Newton NOTHING and STILL had no room under the cap) the team had zero flexibility because they did try in previous years to "win now" consuming those resources and flexibility.

Brady is a smart guy. There were ZERO benefits to him staying. Not contract money or length, not team makeup, nothing. So he left.

Moving on just like I should too instead of rehashing this for the national debt sized time.

 

[captain stone]

He also knew that he would not get any pieces with which to be competitive for a title - no WRs, TEs for the offense nor DTs and LBs to fix a terrible run defense because no matter HOW he restructured his deal (I mean they ended up paying Newton NOTHING and STILL had no room under the cap) the team had zero flexibility because they did try in previous years to "win now" consuming those resources and flexibility.

Those pieces weren't here - and Bill had to over-pay for dudes like Sanu - because his drafts weren't cutting the mustard, not because of any "win now" excuse..

 

[Ring 6]

What else would you expect Brady to say?

So he’s lying?

 

[Ring 6]

When presented with facts just complain.

Those weren’t facts with respect to the discussion.

 

[203Pat]

Those weren’t facts with respect to the discussion.

You claimed a bunch of bad QBs won Super Bowls. Two of the QBs you claimed were bad went to the pro bowl the years they won the super bowl. The others played very well in the post season. Not sure how that is not part of the discussion when you brought their names up.

 

[Kontradiction]

So he’s lying?

I’m sure there’s a shred of truth in there. Every player needs to be coached up. But Brady’s own work ethic and relentless pursuit of perfecting his game are the primary drivers for his success. When it comes to reasons, that absolutely dwarfs anything BB and Co. contributed. It’s like comparing the Sun to Pluto. That’s why Brady is a Super Bowl champion without Bill and Bill is a career mediocrity (at least to date) as a HC without Brady.

 

[Ring 6]

I’m sure there’s a shred of truth in there. Every player needs to be coached up. But Brady’s own work ethic and relentless pursuit of perfecting his game are the primary drivers for his success. When it comes to reasons, that absolutely dwarfs anything BB and Co. contributed. It’s like comparing the Sun to Pluto. That’s why Brady is a Super Bowl champion without Bill and Bill is a career mediocrity (at least to date) as a HC without Brady.

It’s really not something that can be answered. Developing into a great NFL player is a complex process and the formula can be different for many.
It’s like saying a smart kid doesn’t need good teachers vs saying the teacher made the kid smart.
We do know that it is roundly accepted that belichick understands defense better than anyone and sees things others do not. The fact that belichick personally taught Brady how to read and decipher a defense and it became perhaps Brady’s biggest strength merits consideration.
In the end it’s all speculation.

I’ve never accepted that you remove 20 years of success that a coach/gm build and think that he gets judged on what’s left. It’s circular logic.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I think/hope/pray that Mac starts the first game.

That's so wrong...you think you're smarter than a coach who won six rings. If Bill thinks Mac should start, Mac will start.

For you to sit there and form an opinion about what Bill should do? You sound like a spoiled fan. Go follow another team.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I’m sure there’s a shred of truth in there. Every player needs to be coached up. But Brady’s own work ethic and relentless pursuit of perfecting his game are the primary drivers for his success. When it comes to reasons, that absolutely dwarfs anything BB and Co. contributed. It’s like comparing the Sun to Pluto. That’s why Brady is a Super Bowl champion without Bill and Bill is a career mediocrity (at least to date) as a HC without Brady.

They decided not to use the the Coaching Up strategy on Rohan Davey, Kevin O'Connell, Jacoby Brissett, Ryan Mallett, and Jarett Stidham. Josh also decided not to use it with Tim Tebow and Sam Bradford.

I am glad Bill O'Brien decided to use it with Deshaun Watson, but that's because he was supported by a fantastic organization with the Texans... the management and coaches were able to coach him up.

I hope they decide to develop Mac Jones because that means he'll be on of the greatest of all-time if he decides to listen to the coaches and put in the time.

 

[1960Pats]

Is there some reason that the letter "P" that I used in a post was changed to a sticking out a tongue emoji?

 

[Ring 6]

You claimed a bunch of bad QBs won Super Bowls. Two of the QBs you claimed were bad went to the pro bowl the years they won the super bowl. The others played very well in the post season. Not sure how that is not part of the discussion when you brought their names up.

They are bad QBs. The discussion was QBs carrying coaches to SBs
Those teams were more about coaching than QB, including coaching up and/or limiting the role of the QB.

 

[Kontradiction]

It’s really not something that can be answered. Developing into a great NFL player is a complex process and the formula can be different for many.
It’s like saying a smart kid doesn’t need good teachers vs saying the teacher made the kid smart.
We do know that it is roundly accepted that belichick understands defense better than anyone and sees things others do not. The fact that belichick personally taught Brady how to read and decipher a defense and it became perhaps Brady’s biggest strength merits consideration.
In the end it’s all speculation.

I’ve never accepted that you remove 20 years of success that a coach/gm build and think that he gets judged on what’s left. It’s circular logic.

It can definitely be answered. Tom Brady is more responsible for his own success than Bill Belichick is.

 

[Ring 6]

It can definitely be answered. Tom Brady is more responsible for his own success than Bill Belichick is.

I didn’t say otherwise but some of his success came from Belichick’s coaching.