Rumor: Some Patriots Players Have Doubts About Cam Newton

[Ring 6]

Not really. It's the great QB's that can and have carried coaches to championships and success. Not the other way around.

Debatable.
But that’s not my point.
Bradys understanding of defense, approach to the game, situational awareness etc were all heavily influenced by the coaching he received.
Belichick also put him in a position to best use his skills.

 

[Ring 6]

Which makes me think more and more that BB is going to keep Mac on the bench for this year and suck up yet another year to set up this franchise for the next 10 years or more.

There is no upside to doing that.

 

[sb1]

Debatable.
But that’s not my point.
Bradys understanding of defense, approach to the game, situational awareness etc were all heavily influenced by the coaching he received.
Belichick also put him in a position to best use his skills.

Ok but still great players can carry coaches to championships and success and not the other way around. Peyton Manning took Jim Caldwell to a Super Bowl. Caldwell is not exactly a great head coach. .292 winning percentage in the NCAA and his Colts team crashed and burned when Manning left. Bill is a great coach but let's face it there's a reason why he is under .500 without Brady. Like Noll without Bradshaw, Walsh without Montana and so on.

Sure Bill put Brady in a position to best use his skills but so would any good coach. Don't see why say, Pete Carroll wouldn't have coached Brady up like Bill did.

 

[203Pat]

I have we not seen anyone say Brady was nothing without belichick.
I disagree with your opinion he was bigger than the team, and he would too.

I also think it is incorrect to think belichick had no hand in Brady’s success. Coaching matters and belichick personally coached Brady one on one. That doesn’t diminish Brady, every player is a product of how they are coached.

I also have no clue why there would be a team bill and a team Tom. They were on the same team and they accomplished everything they did together. Neither would be as successful without the other.

No one (at least that I have seen) has flat out said either side was nothing without the other but there has been a lot of "Well Brady was drafted by Bill and he might have never had a chance in the league if not for Bill". Which is ridiculous and as far as I am concerned and should be the other way around. I think there is almost no chance Brady wins 6 rings without Bill but I definitely think he would have gotten chance somewhere, on some team, whether he was drafted there or brought in as an UDFA. On the flip side Bill was already a one time failed head coach when he got here and if he flamed out here there's a good chance he was never getting a head coaching job again. He went 5-11 his first year and started 0-2 and was already having issues with the team's star receiver. Things could have unraveled very quickly if Brady wasn't on the team and he very well could have been out of a job by the end of the year.

I think it is obvious that neither side would have the success they did without the other but Bill owes Brady just as much if not more than Brady owes Bill.

 

[sb1]

e went 5-11 his first year and started 0-2 and was already having issues with the team's star receiver. Things could have unraveled very quickly if Brady wasn't on the team and he very well could have been out of a job by the end of the year.

Pats coughed up a first rounder and two other picks to get Bill - I'm guessing in this scenario he'd have a leash at least until the end of 2002.

 

[203Pat]

Pats coughed up a first rounder and two other picks to get Bill - I'm guessing in this scenario he'd have a leash at least until the end of 2002.

I could definitely see Kraft holding out hope for one more year to get a return on his investment but I don't know how differently the Terry Glenn situation would have been viewed if the team was 2-7 when Bill deactivated him. They just paid their franchise QB a ton of money so without a replacement I don’t think Drew was going anywhere. There were also a ton of new faces in that locker room who may not have wanted to deal with Bill had the team been losing and things could have devolved quickly into him completely losing the locker room. It is hard to even think about Bill without the cachet he carries now but we have seen numerous Bill disciples over the years try to conduct themselves like Bill without the résumé and failed miserably.

 

[moosekill]

So he can learn for an entire season about what not to do from Cam?

No one has really mentioned this but I can't think of a worse veteran Qb for Mac to learn under than Cam. Not only is Cam completely washed, he can't even play well in our system. Mahomes had Alex Smith who could actually teach him the offense.

Mac is much better off playing this season for us for his development.

That is because no one really thinks he is going to be learning anything from Cam other than how to be a leader and a good teammate.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Which makes me think more and more that BB is going to keep Mac on the bench for this year and suck up yet another year to set up this franchise for the next 10 years or more.

I don't think he has that kind of time to play out that long game.

He'll play Cam the whole year only if Mac isn't ready. He wants Mac ready now.

I think BB is operating in a now to 2025 window.

I look at the Judon signing as the indicator.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Probably 9-7.. just a guess.

17 games now so either 9-8 or 10-7.

Either one I think is a very reasonable estimate.

 

[moosekill]

I think/hope/pray that Mac starts the first game. If he doesn't I really don't think he will start the rest of the year, hope I am wrong on that account but we will see.

 

[PP2]

So he can learn for an entire season about what not to do from Cam?

No one has really mentioned this but I can't think of a worse veteran Qb for Mac to learn under than Cam. Not only is Cam completely washed, he can't even play well in our system. Mahomes had Alex Smith who could actually teach him the offense.

Mac is much better off playing this season for us for his development.

He's not learning from Cam any more than Brady was learning from Bledsoe. It's all about repetition and learning the system to the point of not having to think.

 

[PP2]

I don't think he has that kind of time to play out that long game.

Really doubt he will. Maybe 2 or so years then I see him moving upstairs and McD taking over after the foundation is laid. This then absolves McD of any blame or fault for the subsequent decade.

 

[captain stone]

17 games now so either 9-8 or 10-7.

Either one I think is a very reasonable estimate.

I believe that SAN12 was guessing what our record would've been last season if Brady were still here..?

 

[Ring 6]

Ok but still great players can carry coaches to championships and success and not the other way around. Peyton Manning took Jim Caldwell to a Super Bowl. Caldwell is not exactly a great head coach. .292 winning percentage in the NCAA and his Colts team crashed and burned when Manning left. Bill is a great coach but let's face it there's a reason why he is under .500 without Brady. Like Noll without Bradshaw, Walsh without Montana and so on.

Sure Bill put Brady in a position to best use his skills but so would any good coach. Don't see why say, Pete Carroll wouldn't have coached Brady up like Bill did.

Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, Tent Dilfer, Flacco,Peyton Manning in Denver, are a few examples of QBs carried to sb wins. If you include Sb losers like Manning/Caldwell the list is extremely long.

Pete Carroll is not bill belichick any more than Ben Roethlisberger is Tom Brady.
Your argument is no stronger than me saying Belichick could have coached Ben up to do everything Brady did. It’s all made up.

 

[captain stone]

He's not learning from Cam any more than Brady was learning from Bledsoe. It's all about repetition and learning the system to the point of not having to think.

But that's an advantage in Mac's favor: He already knows the system, and by the end of TC he'll know it better than Cam will...All he lacks is experience at NFL-level speed, and he's going to get that too, starting tonight...

 

[Ring 6]

But that's an advantage in Mac's favor: He already knows the system, and by the end of TC he'll know it better than Cam will...All he lacks is experience at NFL-level speed, and he's going to get that too, starting tonight...

I’d like to see Jones play the whole game. Not realistic though because he isn’t in game shape yet.

 

[sb1]

Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, Tent Dilfer, Flacco,Peyton Manning in Denver, are a few examples of QBs carried to sb wins. If you include Sb losers like Manning/Caldwell the list is extremely long.

They weren't carried by their head coach. Other great players helped them win titles.

No coach has carried his QB to a success and championships. Certainly not Bill and Brady. Plenty of examples the other way around though.

Pete Carroll is not bill belichick any more than Ben Roethlisberger is Tom Brady.
Your argument is no stronger than me saying Belichick could have coached Ben up to do everything Brady did. It’s all made up.

Give Brady someone like Carroll and there's no doubt he could have won multiple championships. No doubt at all. Winning with the greatest QB this game will ever see isn't an exclusive talent of Bill Belichick.

 

[Ring 6]

Not by their coach, but by other great players.
No coach has carried his QB to a success and championships. Plenty of examples the other way around though.


Give Brady someone like Carroll and there's no doubt he could have won championships. No doubt at all. Coaching up the greatest QB this game will ever see isn't an exclusive talent of Bill Belichick.

Says who? How are you the one who gets to decide who gets credit. That’s ridiculous.

Why isn’t it? Brady became the best under belichicks tutelage, you have no idea how he would have developed with lesser coaching. Are you saying joe Montana would have been the same QB if bill Walsh didn’t coach him? Fouts without coryell?
Steve Young was a bum until Walsh coached him up. Rich Gannon was a journeyman until Gruden made him an MVP. There are many examples.
Sorry your guess doesn’t jive with facts.

 

[Ring 6]

Breaking news: It would be good for the team if Cam plays well.

It would be better for the team if cam doesn’t play.

 

[Ring 6]

They weren't carried by their head coach. Other great players helped them win titles.

No coach has carried his QB to a success and championships. Certainly not Bill and Brady. Plenty of examples the other way around though.


Give Brady someone like Carroll and there's no doubt he could have won multiple championships. No doubt at all. Winning with the greatest QB this game will ever see isn't an exclusive talent of Bill Belichick.

Brady agrees with me

"I loved my time and two incredible decades there," Brady told reporters. "My football journey took me to a different place. I certainly could never have accomplished the things in my career without his support and his teachings."