Rumor or Speculation (IDK): Patriots shopping Amendola

[supafly]

Interestingly entering this season Austin Collie played in 44 games was targeted 286 times for 190 receptions, 1967 yards, and 18 touchdowns. Amendola had played in 42 games was targeted 293 times for 196 receptions, 1726 yards, and 7 touchdowns.

So I will ask the question again, aside from the risk of injury which both Collie and Amendola have what does Amendola offer that Collie does not? Collie would cost $715K to sign, and Amendola is going to cost another $3.4M on top of the $8M already paid?

So many of you keep saying Amendola and Edelman, for me it is not even comparable, it would take Amendola almost 2 seasons to reach the production Edelman had in 2013 based on his career averages. With that in mind I question why pay Amendola $5.7M APY to be the backup and #3 WR when I could sign Collie for $715K and use the rest of that money someplace else.

You could always write to Reiss' mailbag and ask what they see in Amendola that makes him worth paying significantly more than Austin Collie. I would imagine that it would be directly in line with a lot of the responses here though.

I suppose any one of us could make the same argument about a player of less talent with an obvious injury history for any number of positions. Austin Collie didn't see all that much of the field last year either, for what it's worth. He seems to be nothing more than a depth guy at this point, although I wouldn't mind seeing him back for cheap money.

 

[Joker]

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yeah...Collie's got nothing to worry about. Clean Bill Of Health!!! The football team's doctor says so!!!

I think there may be a certain person in this thread also suffering from post concussion brain damage.

 

[primetime]

And not to downplay Amendola's concussions (or any other player's), but Collie's concussion issues were so severe that he had to take the unprecedented step of signing a waiver of liability with a team in order to play. He was really the player that thrust the concussion issue into the spotlight to begin with.

Yes, if we use career statistics out of context, you can certainly make a viable case - Collie was, after all, a rising star before suffering season-ending concussions that totally derailed his career. But, unlike Amendola, those statistics all came nearly 5 years ago. Collie's not the same player he was, never will be, and really shouldn't be playing at all.

 

[Don Kipines]

Brady8, did you watch Danny Amendola play before last year at all? Because when healthy he's a tremendous player. What we watched last year was an injured player trying to gut it out a groin tear. He's not washed up; he's hurt.

The Amendola of two years ago was a superior player to Austin Collie by a fair margin. If you didn't watch the player back then, how can you be convinced?

 

[patsfan-1982]

Interestingly entering this season Austin Collie played in 44 games was targeted 286 times for 190 receptions, 1967 yards, and 18 touchdowns. Amendola had played in 42 games was targeted 293 times for 196 receptions, 1726 yards, and 7 touchdowns.

So I will ask the question again, aside from the risk of injury which both Collie and Amendola have what does Amendola offer that Collie does not? Collie would cost $715K to sign, and Amendola is going to cost another $3.4M on top of the $8M already paid?

So many of you keep saying Amendola and Edelman, for me it is not even comparable, it would take Amendola almost 2 seasons to reach the production Edelman had in 2013 based on his career averages. With that in mind I question why pay Amendola $5.7M APY to be the backup and #3 WR when I could sign Collie for $715K and use the rest of that money someplace else.

here is the way I see it forget Edelman forget Collie what did you see in the 3 rookies last year that makes it ok for the pats to cut any WR that's only making 3.4 Million when we have seen A guys that missed A full season get paid 6 million per

 

[primetime]

here is the way I see it forget Edelman forget Collie what did you see in the 3 rookies last year that makes it ok for the pats to cut any WR that's only making 3.4 Million when we have seen A guys that missed A full season get paid 6 million per

Brady6 seems to want a wide receiving corps that costs less than $5m total and has very little NFL production but has great combine numbers and some elusive and ambiguous trait like 'upside.'

 

[Brady6]

There is nothing that can be said to change your mind, other than from your own mouth.

That is not true at all, if you offered something that made sense I could absolutely align with it. I am not stubborn and I am conscious that I am not always correct.

After all, you have spent many posts arguing that Amendola should not be cut and many posts arguing that he should be cut.

I would not say he should be cut, I would say he should not be compensated as the #1 WR on this team if Edelman resigns. Posters seem to think that Amendola will have a chance to do what expected in 2013 again in 2014, the reality is that if Edelman resigns which seems likely that chance is gone.

Wes Welker made an average of $4.6M during his tenure with the Patriots ($9.5M came in one season 2012), if we decide to keep Amendola we will be into him for $11.4M through two seasons, that is $5.7M per. If you can justify paying Amendola more for less than 50% of the production Welker gave us I would love to hear it, I cannot, and for that reason, I see NO reason to pay him more money in 2014.

Amendola and Collie were judged in the market. Their values were $8M and less than $1M for one year of their services. 2013 has convinced you that Collie is now more valuable than Amendola. You are entitled to that opinion. Clearly, you should give this information to Collie's agent.

There was a belief that Amendola could be the next Wes Welker amongst NFL GM and coaches. After the 2013 season that belief is no longer, Amendola was paid largely last season the same way a draft pick is paid for potential, well if you put UFA into draft terms Amendola was a first round pick last offseason, this offseason he would be a late round pick.

Collie had not played in over a year, and had serious concerns around his health, that kept him from receiving any offers of substance. In 2014, I would suggest they are in the same boat.

In addition, you have indicated that neither the decision of the patriots nor the value placed by the market will change your opinion.

That is the case for every poster on this board including you, does it stop you from sharing your opinion?

You see all responses as irrelevant because I (and others) do not accept your analysis and constructs. So, in the end, there is little point in trying to convince you.

I do not see responses I see assertions without merit. No poster has made a compelling analysis of what makes Amendola a worthwhile investment, no poster has broken down where the groin injury affect his play and what is going to be different in 2014, no poster has highlighted anything that would make me believe that Amendola is going to be anything different in 2014. All I see are excuses for his poor performance, claims that we will not cut him because of salary cap reasons, and suggestions of future change with nothing supporting it.

I would actually have more respect for the posters if they just said “I am an Amendola fan and I want to give him another chance” instead of attempting to claim that it is a good decision to continue to pay Amendola more money. What I read though is laughable, it is posts of desperation to defend a player that has been the biggest let down of UFA in the past 10 years of this franchise.

 

[50-yard-line]

"a player that has been the biggest let down of UFA in the past 10 years of this franchise."

Jump the shark.
Nuke the fridge.

and now...

Denounce the Danny.

 

[Brady6]

You could always write to Reiss' mailbag and ask what they see in Amendola that makes him worth paying significantly more than Austin Collie. I would imagine that it would be directly in line with a lot of the responses here though.



I suppose any one of us could make the same argument about a player of less talent with an obvious injury history for any number of positions. Austin Collie didn't see all that much of the field last year either, for what it's worth. He seems to be nothing more than a depth guy at this point, although I wouldn't mind seeing him back for cheap money.

Which is what? I have not read one response that has said anything other than health. Amendola is far from the beacon of health so that does very little to change my opinion.

Reiss is not in here defending and advocating to retain Amendola so why would I question his reasoning?

Collie was a depth player and if Edelman resigns that's all I would view Amendola as. In addition Collie was more productive than Amendola in the playoffs.

 

[Brady6]

"a player that has been the biggest let down of UFA in the past 10 years of this franchise."



Jump the shark.

Nuke the fridge.



and now...



Denounce the Danny.

Who was a bigger UFA disappointment than Amendola in the past 10 seasons?

 

[Brady6]

Brady6 seems to want a wide receiving corps that costs less than $5m total and has very little NFL production but has great combine numbers and some elusive and ambiguous trait like 'upside.'

No I just don't want a receiver that makes more than the player he replaced but produces less than 50% the production.

You see Primetime I am a fan of the Patriots so my support is with them. I do not feel Amendola helped the team last season in comparison to what he was paid and what role he was expected to perform. For that reason I do not hold Amendola in high regard, and I am certainly not going advocate for the possibility of a repeat of said performance in 2014. If you are an Amendola fan you may but as I said I am a Patriots fan not an Amendola fan.

 

[primetime]

Who was a bigger UFA disappointment than Amendola in the past 10 seasons?

Sincgle season? Donte Stallworth (overtaken by journeyman Jabar Gaffney). Rosevelt Colvin (lost for season in first game, which should warn you against making judgments early). Deltha O'Neal. Joey Galloway. Shawn Springs. Derrick Burgess. Brandon McGowan. Kyle Brady. Leon Washington. Steve Gregory.

That's just for the season they were signed. If we include body of work, Adalius Thomas, Tully Banta-Cain, and Leigh Bodden, at least, were pretty disappointing.

In fact, it's pretty difficult to name more than a handful of UFAs who performed much better than Amendola relative to expectations. Certainly Rodney and Ninkovich, probably Andre Carter and Mark Anderson (though the latter was overrated by garbage time sack stats), of course Woodhead, Gaffney. Though there weren't really any expectations for any of those guys but Rodney and maybe Carter. Arguably Brandon Lloyd, but probably not.

Given that there's only been a relative handful of high-profile UFAs signed in the last decade, the fact that Amendola is right in the middle of the pack - and even closer to the front - despite a pedestrian first season marred by injury doesn't say much.

 

[Brady6]

Brady8, did you watch Danny Amendola play before last year at all? Because when healthy he's a tremendous player. What we watched last year was an injured player trying to gut it out a groin tear. He's not washed up; he's hurt.

The Amendola of two years ago was a superior player to Austin Collie by a fair margin. If you didn't watch the player back then, how can you be convinced?

I did watch him, he was outstanding against the 49ers and Redskins in 2012 outside of that he was inconsistent. Many players in the NFL have a couple of great games per season, if Shane Vereen did what he did in week one every week he would be the greatest RB ever.

 

[Brady6]

Sincgle season? Donte Stallworth (overtaken by journeyman Jabar Gaffney). Rosevelt Colvin (lost for season in first game). Deltha O'Neal. Joey Galloway. Shawn Springs. Derrick Burgess. Brandon McGowan. Kyle Brady. Leon Washington. Steve Gregory.



That's just for the season they were signed. If we include body of work, Adalius Thomas, Tully Banta-Cain, and Leigh Bodden, at least, were pretty disappointing.



In fact, it's pretty difficult to name more than a handful of UFAs who performed much better than Amendola relative to expectations.



Given that there's only been a relative handful of high-profile UFAs signed in the last decade, the fact that Amendola is right in the middle of the pack despite a pedestrian first season marred by injury doesn't say much.

I'm not going to get into outlining how some of those players were more productive than Amendola. I will just ask you what happened to those players?

The comment about Amendola and expectations is ludicrous. He did not even reach 50% the production that Welker gave us the prior year. He was signed to replace Welker.

 

[50-yard-line]

Who was a bigger UFA disappointment than Amendola in the past 10 seasons?

Adelius Thomas - and it's not even close

Shawn Springs

Leigh Bodden

Adrian Wilson (jury still out)

Tommy Kelly (jury still out)

And I'll add that it's a trick question because saying "UFA" discounts the way the Pats typically do business, via trades. They've signed only a few UFA's to deals remotely near Amendola territory - including the two (Thomas and Bodden) I've listed as worse. Not only did Thomas, with $20 million guaranteed, flame out after his injury halfway through his second season, you could argue that he took Shawn Springs down with him, with his destructive attitude. He poisoned the Pats' locker room.

The jury's still out on DA. You're ramping yourself up into crazy talk here. Austin Collie? Up until that Eagles game in 2010, Collie was a rising star, who would have gotten a helluva contract when he was done his rookie deal in Indy (Amendola-like contract, at least - Garcon got 42.5 million for 5 years, despite never having had a 1,000 yard season with Peyton throwing him the ball! And Collie was battling him as Peyton's top dog). After that massive concussion, and the subsequent concussions and knee injury, not so much.

DA had a solid season, playing hurt, including 77 yards in the AFCDG.

He DID NOT live up to the Pats hopes for him in 2013, we all agree, but he certainly showed flashes of why they paid him. I figure if he gets hurt this year, or doesn't perform, he'll likely get cut (especially if Boyce and Dobson step up).

And yeah, I don't see why they don't keep Collie, at least on speed dial...but I really wish the guy, for his own sake, would retire. Every time I see him with the ball, I cringe.

I've already showed you what the other WR FA's got last year - was there a better option for NE? Jennings? Harvin? Heywood-Bey? Alexander?

 

[primetime]

I'm not going to get into outlining how some of those players were more productive than Amendola. I will just ask you what happened to those players?

Well, Rosevelt Colvin went on to recover from a first season marred by injury to be one of the Patriots' better defensive players in the last decade.

You went full crazy on this awhile ago, but now you're just ramping it up times infinity.

 

[Brady6]

Adelius Thomas - and it's not even close



Shawn Springs



Leigh Bodden



Adrian Wilson (jury still out)



Tommy Kelly (jury still out)



And I'll add that it's a trick question because saying "UFA" discounts the way the Pats typically do business, via trades. They've signed only a few UFA's to deals remotely near Amendola territory - including the two (Thomas and Bodden) I've listed as worse. Not only did Thomas, with $20 million guaranteed, flame out after his injury halfway through his second season, you could argue that he took Shawn Springs down with him, with his destructive attitude. He poisoned the Pats' locker room.



The jury's still out on DA. You're ramping yourself up into crazy talk here. Austin Collie? Up until that Eagles game in 2010, Collie was a rising star, who would have gotten a helluva contract when he was done his rookie deal in Indy (Amendola-like contract, at least - Garcon got 42.5 million for 5 years, despite never having had a 1,000 yard season with Peyton throwing him the ball! And Collie was battling him as Peyton's top dog). After that massive concussion, and the subsequent concussions and knee injury, not so much.



DA had a solid season, playing hurt, including 77 yards in the AFCDG.



He DID NOT live up to the Pats hopes for him in 2013, we all agree, but he certainly showed flashes of why they paid him. I figure if he gets hurt this year, or doesn't perform, he'll likely get cut (especially if Boyce and Dobson step up).



And yeah, I don't see why they don't keep Collie, at least on speed dial...but I really wish the guy, for his own sake, would retire. Every time I see him with the ball, I cringe.



I've already showed you what the other WR FA's got last year - was there a better option for NE? Jennings? Harvin? Heywood-Bey? Alexander?

Thomas is the only one who received a big contract. Kelly and Wilson were low risk high reward signings.

Other teams UFA mistakes do not aid us at all. The fact you've had to use Haywood-Bey comparisons should tell you everything you need to know.

53 yard came on one reception on a play action pass that the entire Colts team bit on and Amendola ran untouched and uncovered, Kyle Love could have made that reception.

 

[50-yard-line]

Thomas is the only one who received a big contract. Kelly and Wilson were low risk high reward signings.

Other teams UFA mistakes do not aid us at all. The fact you've had to use Haywood-Bey comparisons should tell you everything you need to know.

And Wilson, unless he recovers, was millions flushed for NO RETURN.

Bodden got $22 million, and the cap was lower back then.

I use Heywood-Bey because he was one of the very few decent UFA WR's signed last year. Plug in any name you want from last year. Result is the same.

Low-risk is the Patriot way, with only a few exceptions. Who do you want the Pats to sign this year?

 

[primetime]

Stop willfully misinterpreting what others are saying just to continue to hammer home your absurd and ill-advised point.

He was just pointing out that the free agent pool last year was not particularly deep and did not perform any better than Amendola. Edelman had never been healthy in his career and no one expected him to catch 100 balls, so saying they should have gambled by using Edelman alone in the slot with a bunch of rookies only makes sense with 20/20 hindsight (and only with that hindsight right now, who knows what that will look like a month from now or six months from now).

The Patriots, having ignored the future of the WR position in previous seasons, were essentially caught with their pants down last spring. Amendola could not rectify that on his own.

 

[Brady6]

And Wilson, unless he recovers, was millions flushed for NO RETURN.



Bodden got $22 million, and the cap was lower back then.



I use Heywood-Bey because he was one of the very few decent UFA WR's signed last year. Plug in any name you want from last year. Result is the same.



Low-risk is the Patriot way, with only a few exceptions. Who do you want the Pats to sign this year?

Exactly and if Amendola had been a low risk I would not have had an issue with his season. He was not low risk though, he received the biggest contract this team has given since Thomas.