RKK HOF Semi-Finalist [12/3 update: finalist]

[h0c2000]

Hopefully the cornerstone of the greatest NFL dynasty finally gets in this year.

 

[signbabybrady]

This should be the year of the Patriots. Do the right thing Hall put in Rodney, Bill, Kraft, Adam, and even Vince.

 

[lancerman]

Kraft and Belichick might go in together which would be effing hilarious.

 

[stinkypete]

Owners are billionaires who have usually never played a down of football in their lives. Unless they did something foundational to the development of the league, they don't belong.

That said, while I don't care if Kraft gets in or not, precedent dictates that he belongs. Maybe this team's rise into (hopefully) a new era of success is the last bump he needs.

First, we need to get Rodney, Vince and Jules in there (ok, not holding my breath for Jules, but he belongs).

 

[maust]

Nice to know Krafty Bob made it past the stage that included the Titans Miss Amy. Seriously, she was in the group that was whittled down to give us this list of 'semi'finalists.' She has been an unmitigated disaster, how the hell did that even happen???

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Owners are billionaires who have usually never played a down of football in their lives. Unless they did something foundational to the development of the league, they don't belong.

That said, while I don't care if Kraft gets in or not, precedent dictates that he belongs. Maybe this team's rise into (hopefully) a new era of success is the last bump he needs.

First, we need to get Rodney, Vince and Jules in there (ok, not holding my breath for Jules, but he belongs).

Kraft was head of the Broadcast committee that helped garner Billions of dollars by expanding the TV market to ESPN, and other media while securing labor peace and NFLPA agreements. IIRC one was two weeks after Myra died. He may not have developed it, but he expanded it and made those other owners lots of money.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Can't see how BB doesn't get in this year so I hope Kraft waits one more year. Don't want what should be a beautiful, celebratory day for Pats fans to be clouded by that frayed relationship.

 

[NFL Mystique]

6/10 SB wins
4 other AFC title games
Driving force in settling 2011 CBA
Hired Bill Belichick
Built a privately funded stadium
Built up ESPN

If he doesn't deserve it, what owner does?

 

[Hugepatsfan]

6/10 SB wins
4 other AFC title games
Driving force in settling 2011 CBA
Hired Bill Belichick
Built a privately funded stadium
Built up ESPN

If he doesn't deserve it, what owner does?

Not just "hired Bill Belichick"... gave up a 1st to hire him. It's not like BB was a huge success in his first stop either. Ballsy move that paid off.

Side note: BB's CLE tenure gets misrepresented a lot. He took over a terrible team, they got better each year over the first 4 years, culminating in a playoff win. At that point you have a bad record because of the losing seasons but it was steady progress record wise each year. Then in year 5, he was 4-4 before the owner announced the team was moving after the season, chaos ensued and they lost 7 out of their last 8 after the announcement. Tough situation. The record was awful, but they had a pretty solid multi year rebuild and your records will always be bad during the early years in that and then he got his legs cut out from under him once it clicked and he'd have improved his record. So I get why Kraft gave him a second shot.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Not just "hired Bill Belichick"... gave up a 1st to hire him. It's not like BB was a huge success in his first stop either. Ballsy move that paid off.

Side note: BB's CLE tenure gets misrepresented a lot. He took over a terrible team, they got better each year over the first 4 years, culminating in a playoff win. At that point you have a bad record because of the losing seasons but it was steady progress record wise each year. Then in year 5, he was 4-4 before the owner announced the team was moving after the season, chaos ensued and they lost 7 out of their last 8 after the announcement. Tough situation. The record was awful, but they had a pretty solid multi year rebuild and your records will always be bad during the early years in that and then he got his legs cut out from under him once it clicked and he'd have improved his record. So I get why Kraft gave him a second shot.

And did NOT step in and force Bill to change QB's in 2001. Bill wanted Brady and Kraft did not interfere. Alot of owners would not have allowed the backup to keep starting.

 

[farn]

6/10 SB wins
4 other AFC title games
Driving force in settling 2011 CBA
Hired Bill Belichick
Built a privately funded stadium
Built up ESPN

If he doesn't deserve it, what owner does?

I’d argue ‘none of them’.

 

[Ring 6]

Hopefully the cornerstone of the greatest NFL dynasty finally gets in this year.

That doesn’t say he’s a finalist it says he is a semi finalist.

 

[Ring 6]

6/10 SB wins
4 other AFC title games
Driving force in settling 2011 CBA
Hired Bill Belichick
Built a privately funded stadium
Built up ESPN

If he doesn't deserve it, what owner does?

Owners shouldn’t be in the HOF.

 

[upstater1]

Not just "hired Bill Belichick"... gave up a 1st to hire him. It's not like BB was a huge success in his first stop either. Ballsy move that paid off.

Side note: BB's CLE tenure gets misrepresented a lot. He took over a terrible team, they got better each year over the first 4 years, culminating in a playoff win. At that point you have a bad record because of the losing seasons but it was steady progress record wise each year. Then in year 5, he was 4-4 before the owner announced the team was moving after the season, chaos ensued and they lost 7 out of their last 8 after the announcement. Tough situation. The record was awful, but they had a pretty solid multi year rebuild and your records will always be bad during the early years in that and then he got his legs cut out from under him once it clicked and he'd have improved his record. So I get why Kraft gave him a second shot.

The key wasn't the tenure in Cleveland. It was what happened in New England in 1996. Belichick helped that team come together defensively. They went from 6-10 to the Super Bowl. There's a famous photo of Kraft and Belichick talking about things after Parcells left. They're sitting in a car and the conversation lasted for 3+ hours.

The key thing that happened in Cleveland that made a difference is that Belichick was finally allowed to cut ties with favorite son Bernie Kosar. The fans hated him for it, and Modell prevented it from happening for an entire year before finally letting go of Bernie.

Vinny Testaverde had an excellent year, and when he went to the Jets, Vinny T. actually started the season 12-1 before Keyshawn cried.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I don't think owners should be in unless they contribute to the growth and the strength of the league. Maybe Kraft did that.

Separate from the HOF, I was down on RKK's contributions to the success of the team during the dynasty years. But I'm still very impressed by the way he cut bait on Mayo so quickly, took the responsibility for it, and moved quickly to hire Vrabel and give Vrabel all the coaches and resources he needed to turn this ship around. That's what I want from an owner and I have a lot more respect for him. This has been a great final act for his ownership.

 

[lancerman]

Owners shouldn’t be in the HOF.

They already are. It's a dead discussion. Since that is the case, Kraft is the most deserving owner not in and more deserving than many already in.

It's worthless to relitigate whether they should be in. The very first HOF class had owners four owners inducted. The most recent was 6 years ago with Pat Bowlen who has overseen half the success Kraft did. He's getting in whether it's this year or another. Owners have been part of it from the start, they will be part of it in the future. The league doesn't exist with out them.

 

[Ring 6]

They already are. It's a dead discussion. Since that is the case, Kraft is the most deserving owner not in and more deserving than many already in.

It's worthless to relitigate whether they should be in. The very first HOF class had owners four owners inducted. The most recent was 6 years ago with Pat Bowlen who has overseen half the success Kraft did. He's getting in whether it's this year or another. Owners have been part of it from the start, they will be part of it in the future. The league doesn't exist with out them.

I don’t think owners should be in the HOF. The fact that someone decided otherwise does not change, invalidate or diminish my opinion that the HOF should be about players and coaches that win games.

I also don’t think “overseeing” deserves credit unless there is active participation and contribution.

 

[lancerman]

I don’t think owners should be in the HOF. The fact that someone decided otherwise does not change, invalidate or diminish my opinion that the HOF should be about players and coaches that win games.

I also don’t think “overseeing” deserves credit unless there is active participation and contribution.

Every sports league does it. It doesn't matter.

Let's be real, it's obvious you have tendency to diminish Kraft's contribution to the team over the years and since it's impossible to argue against him getting in comparison to his peers the only argument is the process. The process has been decided. He's getting whether it's this year or another whether you like it or not.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't think owners should be in unless they contribute to the growth and the strength of the league. Maybe Kraft did that.

Separate from the HOF, I was down on RKK's contributions to the success of the team during the dynasty years. But I'm still very impressed by the way he cut bait on Mayo so quickly, took the responsibility for it, and moved quickly to hire Vrabel and give Vrabel all the coaches and resources he needed to turn this ship around. That's what I want from an owner and I have a lot more respect for him. This has been a great final act for his ownership.

I don’t even think contributions to the growth and stature of the league should matter.

The Hall of Fame should be the place for the greatest of the great players and coaches. Owners including themselves because they sign the checks should never have happened.

 

[Ring 6]

Every sports league does it. It doesn't matter.

Let's be real, it's obvious you have tendency to diminish Kraft's contribution to the team over the years and since it's impossible to argue against him getting in comparison to his peers the only argument is the process. The process has been decided. He's getting whether it's this year or another whether you like it or not.

Are you really trying to make this a “they do it so you have to agree” argument?

Let’s be real, I disagree that owners should be in the Hall of Fame. I have not diminished Krafts contributions, I have recognized them for what they are. He hire a man to run the organization and have him full autonomy.
My view of the qualifications for the Hall of Fame is not “made a good hire”.