Reports are the Pats may upgrade the WRs through trade (not necessarily Hopkins)

[UrbanCowboy]

First, did you see Jalen Hurts go from being an average QB to a legitmate MVP candidate with the acquisition of Brown? Tua turned into a below average QB to being in the discussion for MVP early in the season with the addition of Hill. Personally, I am not convinced either Hurts or Tua are better QBs than Jones. They just are surrounded by a lot of talented receivers and solid o-lines with offenses designed to maximize their strengths.

Second, team like KC can trade away receivers because they have Mahomes. Mahomes is an all time great QB. You see guys like him once or twice a generation. Rodgers struggled this year without Adams. And we do not know what guys like Allen, Burrow, or Herbert can do without at least one great WR yet.

Third, a 15 overall pick doesn’t guarantee you a Super Bowl. Philip Rivers was a top 15 pick and was a great player and never saw the Super Bowl. I think Jones might be able to get to the Super Bowl if he was in the situation that Hurts was in this year. But who knows?

Fourth, there are still a lot of question marks on the offense especially at tackle. They may need to get two new starting tackles if O’Brien and Klemm cannot light a candle under Trent Brown’s arse and good LTs don’t grow on trees.

What this tells me is that the game has not changed. You either have really good receivers or a really good quarterback. What's new, right?

 

[Rob0729]

What this tells me is that the game has not changed. You either have really good receivers or a really good quarterback. What's new, right?

When in the past did you win with a great WR without a really good QB? How many playoff games did Larry Fitzgerald even go to in his career or Calvin Johnson? Fitzgerald played for 16 years and made the playoffs in four of them (made it deep into the playoffs, the Super Bowl, once). Johnson is a HOF WR who made the playoffs twice in his career losing both playoff games.

 

[Toofy]

Eli and Ben are very good QBs but not great. If we can get similar production that should suffice.


The problem with league is they tend to protect QB a lot allowing more offensive holding and hence real good QBs are able to elevate mediocre receivers due to time available. mahomes is elite but even if you get elite edge player it's of no use when they tack on penalties more to defenders. Rushing the passer has been so misused this season what are the defenders supposed to do, just sit in pocket?


Defense was non existent this super bowl. hOw long can a CB cover in man or zone.game seems lopsided in favor of offense . So if you have a good QB and solid OLine it can be a shooting match as what we saw this Superbowl as well as last chiefs vs bills game.


And to neutralize defense they added this slippery grass as well .

 

[DaBruinz]

Disagree, why are teams letting the most important piece in today's game, letting good ones to leave. Boy, if it was this simple everybody would devote much more time to that position.
AJ Brown, Tyreek Hill, Davonte Adams. I get it looks great exciting, not the reason a single NFL game is won.
The most constant Receiver that has made a difference is Travis Kelce. A Super large WR, that knows how to runs routes, and catch passes.
He has 504 catches in 4 seasons, KC went to 3 SB's and won 2.
With Hill a Super Weapon has 446 catches, went 1-1 in SB's and couldn't carry his team to the Play-offs.
Why do teams who have the HOF QB get rid of a Davante Adams? Makes no sense, if what you are saying.
If we go all in for a WR, then the excuses for Mac Jones are off the table.
OC-checked
O-Line Coach -Checked
Super Weapon -Checked
15 overall pick in the Draft should get you to the SB, like Jalen Hurts.
Because WR matters, not team complimentary football.

There's this thing called the SALARY CAP. Teams have to abide by it. When they are getting into a crunch and can't afford certain players, they trade those players for assets to help improve their team in the long run.

Without AJ Brown, the Eagles don't have the season they did.
Davante Adams was traded because the Packers didn't have a choice. They weren't going to be able to sign him to a long term deal and they wouldn't have been able to afford tagging him twice.

You knocking Tyreek Hill with the Dolphins when they have had O-line, QB and Coaching issues his first year and QB injury issues the second really shows poorly on your understanding of the the game.

 

[Real fan 02]

There's a whole bunch of dudes that came in here during Tom's tenure that didn't pan out. The whole "Tom Brady Made Receivers Great" is a bit of a myth if used to paint with a broad brush or a roller. They had to had the drive, the brains and the ability to succeed here. If they did, then 100% Brady made them better.

Absolutely!! That's the point I was trying to make by listing some of the WRs who didn't pan out.. and those guys either were head cases.. didn't want to put the work in or just couldn't conform to the program.. as donta Hightower said New England isn't for everyone...

So therefore they weren't in sync with brady..

 

[Real fan 02]

Ehhh Hurts proved a lot to me with his SB performance.
Personally, I'd take Hurts over Jones

Give Mac AJ brown and those guys on offense you'd take Mac.. Mac is a more accurate QB, and a natural passer..

 

[Rob0729]

Give Mac AJ brown and those guys on offense you'd take Mac.. Mac is a more accurate QB, and a natural passer..

The funny thing is some of the best passes in the Super Bowl by Hurts in the Super Bowl was arguably all the receiver.

This throw was underthrown to Smith and Smith was just so open he could slow down and catch it. I have seen people on this board kill Mac Jones for a throw similar to this. If Hurts hit Smith in stride, it would have been a TD.



This pass was way off target and Brown made the adjustment and got it.



Again, both those passes if Jones made them, some of the same people who are amazed by Hurts would be complaining about Jones' noodle arm. Both passes were off target and slow to get down the field.

 

[Scotty]

That same Devonte Smith that was too small to be a success in the NFL ?.........he is doing ok to say the least.

 

[Real fan 02]

The funny thing is some of the best passes in the Super Bowl by Hurts in the Super Bowl was arguably all the receiver.

This throw was underthrown to Smith and Smith was just so open he could slow down and catch it. I have seen people on this board kill Mac Jones for a throw similar to this. If Hurts hit Smith in stride, it would have been a TD.



This pass was way off target and Brown made the adjustment and got it.



Again, both those passes if Jones made them, some of the same people who are amazed by Hurts would be complaining about Jones' noodle arm. Both passes were off target and slow to get down the field.

THANKS!! I appreciate you putting that out there.. I never thought I'd see so many patriots fans dragging Mac.. facts are he is our 1st round selection, played great his first season. Railroaded last season.. we need him to excel.. and under BOB he will!

I feel like Mac given more talent on the outside can play just as well as hurts or better.. what a difference having game breaking talent makes Philly was a 4 win team not long ago, and not even sure if hurts was the guy..

 

[PowerRunRevival]

What this tells me is that the game has not changed. You either have really good receivers or a really good quarterback. What's new, right?

I think it has changed. Used to be really good running back or really good quarterback. Now I think it is really good receiver or really good quarterback.

 

[Real fan 02]

tank dell is also from houston. so very similar to marcus jones. but if we already have marcus tank dell might be redundant.

how about michael wilson in 3rd round. seems a solid player with great physicals . sub 4.5 speed, 6'2 height and 215 pounds .great route running. this guy is going to be the steal of the draft with possibly parker washington.

check this video and his interview. missed a lot of games. could be this years pickens kind of pick. his physicals are similar to davante adams. could be our X guy after parker next year. he absolutely lit up in senior bowl. very limited tape. expect him to be a riser after combine.

I like that idea, we need to continue to gather speed on offense and defense.. another aspect we haven't mentioned much is TE.. yeah we have HH but I still feel we need another threat at TE what do you think of That idea?

 

[Toofy]

I like that idea, we need to continue to gather speed on offense and defense.. another aspect we haven't mentioned much is TE.. yeah we have HH but I still feel we need another threat at TE what do you think of That idea?

This is a super deep TE class. It would be a shame if we don't draft one. If Darnell Washington is available at 46 and kelee Ringo is not , we should go with him . Else take some flyer at schoonmaker in round 5. Next year Henry is not available and we have way out of Jonnu contract . So it would be smart to get TE3 and get the player some playing time to prep for 2024.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Disagree, why are teams letting the most important piece in today's game, letting good ones to leave. Boy, if it was this simple everybody would devote much more time to that position.
AJ Brown, Tyreek Hill, Davonte Adams. I get it looks great exciting, not the reason a single NFL game is won.
The most constant Receiver that has made a difference is Travis Kelce. A Super large WR, that knows how to runs routes, and catch passes.
He has 504 catches in 4 seasons, KC went to 3 SB's and won 2.
With Hill a Super Weapon has 446 catches, went 1-1 in SB's and couldn't carry his team to the Play-offs.
Why do teams who have the HOF QB get rid of a Davante Adams? Makes no sense, if what you are saying.
If we go all in for a WR, then the excuses for Mac Jones are off the table.
OC-checked
O-Line Coach -Checked
Super Weapon -Checked
15 overall pick in the Draft should get you to the SB, like Jalen Hurts.
Because WR matters, not team complimentary football.

From my thread. I might have touched on this more in depth but here the gist ...

*Side note*
I'll say this again about WR's bc it was recently brought up by the media. If you look around the league and the top offenses they all have stud WR1 or very close to it.



Vikings - Jefferson

Miami - Hill

Buffalo - Diggs

Vegas - Adams

Cincinnati - Chase

Philly - Brown

SF Deebo

Rams - Kupp

KC - Kelce

Arizona - Hopkins

LAC - Allen/Williams

Tampa - Evans

Dallas - Lamb

Seattle - Metcalf

Detroit - St. Brown



All those teams are top 15 in points, passing yards and total yards. They obviously have some of the best QB's and OL but they all invest in the position and make it a point to have or aquire a WR1 and WR2. You have Kittle, Waller, Godwin, Aiyuk, Lockett etc.

Even Christian Kirk had a positive effect on Lawrence and Zay Jones.


"if it was this simple everybody would devote much more time to that position."

Teams actually do invest quite a bit! Tennessee got a new GM partly bc Robinson was dumb enough to trade Brown away. KC couldn't pay everyone and GB has has no idea what they're doing for 3 years lol. Teams invest and value the position more than ever before. One could argue its the second most important position after QB imo. I wouldn't but the gap between Edge - CB - OT and WR is nonexistent.

"then the excuses for Mac Jones are off the table."

Some already have built-in excuses ready for next year (3 OC in 3 years etc) Its annoying but Jones play speaks for itself. Average NFL QB his rookie year (somewhere 14-17 QB) and slightly below average to average this past year. He's always been a guy that's need it all so it only makes sense we throw the kitchen sink at him in terms of targets. Plus we need to show we know what we're doing post-12 and after last year.

 

[Real fan 02]

This is a super deep TE class. It would be a shame if we don't draft one. If Darnell Washington is available at 46 and kelee Ringo is not , we should go with him . Else take some flyer at schoonmaker in round 5. Next year Henry is not available and we have way out of Jonnu contract . So it would be smart to get TE3 and get the player some playing time to prep for 2024.

Agreed!!! Smith has to show something more that a play here or there, he needs to be one of the focal points on offense..

What a dynamic offense we could be if he was involved the right way.. however I'm all in on drafting another TE someone that will actually play, and be brung along to become a contributing factor.

 

[UrbanCowboy]

I think it has changed. Used to be really good running back or really good quarterback. Now I think it is really good receiver or really good quarterback.

And of the three, we only have the back!

 

[Real fan 02]

And of the three, we only have the back!

What about good QB, upgraded offense and real OC? That formula works too!

 

[TheRainMaker]

I agree with Bedard. Unless he has no market and comes back very cheap, he says the Pats should say adios to Meyers and apply that money to a real difference making WR. This offense needs more big plays as Kurt Warner had said - constantly driving 10-12+ plays isn't sustainable.

 

[Real fan 02]

I agree with Bedard. Unless he has no market and comes back very cheap, he says the Pats should say adios to Meyers and apply that money to a real difference making WR. This offense needs more big plays as Kurt Warner had said - constantly driving 10-12+ plays isn't sustainable.

That's why I mentioned the need for speed on offense.. just imagine if M. Jones, Thornton and another burner lined up.. Defenses would have to at least respect the speed we would have.. that gives everyone room to work..

We need big play ability and to score quickly..

 

[UrbanCowboy]

What about good QB, upgraded offense and real OC? That formula works too!

Big help. Ii think we agree. I am questioning the idea that you have to have an elite #1 receiver in " today's NFL." Chiefs don't, unless you count kelce, which I grant is fair.

 

[Real fan 02]

Big help. Ii think we agree. I am questioning the idea that you have to have an elite #1 receiver in " today's NFL." Chiefs don't, unless you count kelce, which I grant is fair.

Oh without a doubt!!! As far as elite WRs you'd probably need at least 2 of them in today's game if your going to have them..

What's forgotten about is during our dynasties for the most part we played offense just like KC won with.. no elite WRs.. as you mentioned KC has elite TE, but we did it that way for years.. with elite QB play and great execution from our offense.