Reminder: Pats Had $28.5M in Dead Cap Money in April.... then 8 Key Players Opted Out (Rebuild Year)

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amfootball

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
He wouldn't win one with a bad QB but with a good QB why not?
That is kind of the whole point and why Bill always says players wins games and coaches lose them. Bill is a great coach, the GOAT but his influence is only as good as the players he is coaching. If you don't have THE guy at QB, you are winning zilch. That has been true forever and also why Bill won 6 with the greatest QB of all time. And also why he was sub .500 in Cleveland and sub .500 this season.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
That is kind of the whole point and why Bill always says players wins games and coaches lose them. Bill is a great coach, the GOAT but his influence is only as good as the players he is coaching. If you don't have THE guy at QB, you are winning zilch. That has been true forever and also why Bill won 6 with the greatest QB of all time. And also why he was sub .500 in Cleveland and sub .500 this season.
I agree with that. Though I'd say if there was a lesser coach than Bill the team would be a lot closer to the Jets in the standings than they are. An average coach wouldn't be 5-6 with a roster like this.

As for Brady... Can't see him winning 6 with another coach but same logic is true. I'm sure him and a good coach like Reid or him and Payton could have won a couple. Brady and say Hue Jackson or Adam Gase... I doubt it.
 

moosekill

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Oh we’re playing make believe? Ok I’ll play:

Without Tom Brady, William Belichick gets fired after another 5-11 season in 2002 and ends up a DC for the Cowboys.
Brady would have been lucky to be drafted. Was not amazing coming in as a rookie and was only kept on the Patriots because the coaching staff saw something and thought the risk was worth it. Late round out of shape rookie qb's don't get chances to stick around and become great. BB had very little to do with Brady becoming great, Tom did that all. BB just gave Tom an opportunity. If you aren't smart enough to understand this, don't bother posting anymore.
 

XLIX

Pro Bowl Player
Brady would have been lucky to be drafted. Was not amazing coming in as a rookie and was only kept on the Patriots because the coaching staff saw something and thought the risk was worth it. Late round out of shape rookie qb's don't get chances to stick around and become great. BB had very little to do with Brady becoming great, Tom did that all. BB just gave Tom an opportunity. If you aren't smart enough to understand this, don't bother posting anymore.
That's cool how your response had absolutely nothing to do with the statement I made.

Bill Belichick was nothing as a HC before Tom Brady took over. His overall record was16 games under .500, which includes 8 under .500 in NE. This franchise turned around the day Brady took over, not the day Belichick arrived. If you aren't smart enough to understand this, don't bother posting anymore.
 

1960Pats

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What's bizarre is you have to give Belichick all the credit for staying with his 6th round pick instead of an All Pro QB. Literally the only coach with the balls to do this. Brady honestly has no career unless he ends up on the Pats. The same way Edelman or Meyers or Malcolm Butler or JC Jackson aren't on anyone else's nfl roster without William Belichick as the head coach.

.
You're making a lot of assumptions about Brady, Belichick and many others. There were plenty of people, like me, who liked what they saw from Brady right off the bat. That probably included Belichick.

Players win games but coaches can lose them. Look at Bill and Tom's current teams and you can see it as plain as day. Bill the GOAT has a team without talent and is struggling to make the playoffs. Tom the GOAT has a loaded team but a numbskull for a coach and his team is also struggling.

There's a reason why a top HC gets paid 8 mil a year and a top QB gets five times that.
 

1960Pats

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Look I like Brady too. But those first 3 Superbowls were not won by the QB.
They're weren't won by the coach either. They were won by the players on the field, including Brady.

I think the thing that separates Brady from all other QBs is what happens when the game's on the line. In the Snow Bowl game vs the Raiduhs, he went 8-8 and 9-9 in the tying and winning drives in a blizzard and then followed that up with a 7-7 on the game winning drive in the SB.

That was only the beginning and there were plenty of other examples, including 2003 and 2004 and well beyond, of Brady coming through in the clutch in the biggest of games.
 

1960Pats

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Brady would have been lucky to be drafted. Was not amazing coming in as a rookie and was only kept on the Patriots because the coaching staff saw something and thought the risk was worth it. Late round out of shape rookie qb's don't get chances to stick around and become great. BB had very little to do with Brady becoming great, Tom did that all. BB just gave Tom an opportunity. If you aren't smart enough to understand this, don't bother posting anymore.
Didn't Bill Polian say that he was going to draft Brady? He wouldn't lie would he? ;)
 

chasa

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
the simple fact is we knew this team was probably going to be a .500 team this year. Like, you can SEE the wins and losses based on the talent this team had

Bill the coach is still doing really well, He's squeezing a ton of juice out of this lemon.

My biggest gripe is that bill the GM has done REALLY poorly in the draft recently. There are holes all over the roster that need filling.

Brady's got probowlers at every skill position, and he's not doing any better then he did here with scrubs and spare parts.

you put BB down in tampa with the roster they have, and you're looking at an undefeated season capable team.
 

amfootball

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
the simple fact is we knew this team was probably going to be a .500 team this year. Like, you can SEE the wins and losses based on the talent this team had

Bill the coach is still doing really well, He's squeezing a ton of juice out of this lemon.

My biggest gripe is that bill the GM has done REALLY poorly in the draft recently. There are holes all over the roster that need filling.

Brady's got probowlers at every skill position, and he's not doing any better then he did here with scrubs and spare parts.

you put BB down in tampa with the roster they have, and you're looking at an undefeated season capable team.
Brady is having one of his top seasons statistically. He is doing volumes better than last year.

The irony of your last sentence is that is why Brady is in Tampa - Bill the GM had crap around him and so badly managed the cap he could not improve the roster at all this season.
 

Nikolai

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The uneducated hwat taeks in this thread are giving the rest of us cancer.
 

moosekill

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
That's cool how your response had absolutely nothing to do with the statement I made.

Bill Belichick was nothing as a HC before Tom Brady took over. His overall record was16 games under .500, which includes 8 under .500 in NE. This franchise turned around the day Brady took over, not the day Belichick arrived. If you aren't smart enough to understand this, don't bother posting anymore.
Your statement had nothing at all to do with what I said, so you win for being an idiot. Brady is in the NFL because BB believed in him and because Tom worked his butt off. Alone neither of them would have had the success they both did together.
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
That is kind of the whole point and why Bill always says players wins games and coaches lose them. Bill is a great coach, the GOAT but his influence is only as good as the players he is coaching. If you don't have THE guy at QB, you are winning zilch. That has been true forever and also why Bill won 6 with the greatest QB of all time. And also why he was sub .500 in Cleveland and sub .500 this season.

I think you're oversimplifying. He was 11-5 in Cleveland before a massive team move. He went 11-5 in 08 and 3-1 with Jimmy/Brissett. As the title of this thread says, this season was a rebuild due to so much dead cap money and player opt outs. It's misleading by a lot to say Belichick is a sub-500 coach without Brady.

.
 

TheRainMaker

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Belichick as a HC would not have won a single Super Bowl if Brady had been in any other team in the NFL. Think what you want but you are wrong.
Take this with a grain of salt, but a major talking head in the media had recently said he had a friend on the 2001 Pats Coaching staff and told him he feared the entire Coaching staff was going to get fired.....until Brady happened.
 

amfootball

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Take this with a grain of salt, but a major talking head in the media had recently said he had a friend on the 2001 Pats Coaching staff and told him he feared the entire Coaching staff was going to get fired.....until Brady happened.
Charlie Weiss has said this many times. They all feared getting canned until Brady showed up.
 

1960Pats

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I think you're oversimplifying. He was 11-5 in Cleveland before a massive team move. He went 11-5 in 08 and 3-1 with Jimmy/Brissett. As the title of this thread says, this season was a rebuild due to so much dead cap money and player opt outs. It's misleading by a lot to say Belichick is a sub-500 coach without Brady.
It's also misleading to say that Belichick could take over the Bucs and have them undefeated this year, as has been mentioned a few times. If HCs were that important there wouldn't be so many teams winning SBs with average or below average HCs. It's all about the players.

As for the comparison that you made, the loss of Brady is why the Pats went 11-5 in 2008 after going 18-1 in 2007. The HC and most of the players were the same.

Also, which players from last year's offense have opted out?
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
Brady is having one of his top seasons statistically. He is doing volumes better than last year.
This is incorrect.
Compared to through 12 games last year he has thrown for 32 more yards.
He has 10 more td passes but that’s largely due to the choice to run it in or pass it in.
And he has 11 picks this year to 6 last year, a huge decline.

His team last year was 10-2 and this year its 7-5.
His team has scored 22 more points this year, hardly worth the extra 5 Ints.

The minimal statistical improvement is probably attributed to the elbow injury.

He’s already started to struggle, which anyone which objectivity would realize is gong to happen to a 42 year old Qb after playing half a season.
 

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