REISS: Thornton Already Back at Work

[captain stone]

Tate was certainly popular among fans and media.

And for good reason too.

We go to the SB in 2010 with Golden Tate;

We Win the SB in 2011 with him;

And we might've gone again in 2012 with him...

That's how big of a ****up picking Germy Cunnyham instead of him was.

 

[crawhammer]

Nobody is comparing Thornton to anyone. He was a rookie with no body of work to compare anything to. That’s just you being a dishonest clod.

Yes, actually you are. Thornton's detractors are pointing to his size and you're replying Thornton doesn't need to be the size of Metcalf to get open... the players you name as similarly not needing Metcalf's size are Moss, Jackson, and Patten. Moss was taller and much heavier than Thornton, so there's that flaw in your comparison, and Moss also happens to be one of the greatest WR in the history of the game. DeSean Jackson is much shorter than Thornton and only weighs 7 pounds less. Jackson also happens to be one the most explosive downfield targets in the history of the game. Patten as I already pointed out was shorter and more compact so you've failed to make even one legitimate size comparison with Thornton. And I don't know if Thornton can duplicate Patten's numbers but if he can average 18 Y/R with 7 or so TDs (Patten's ceiling) then I'll consider it a win.

You have no f-ing clue what Thornton or Mac or anyone else can become.

I at least have a clue that I would never mention Metcalf, Moss or Jackson in any sort of comparison with Thornton. Likewise Mac isn't going to be Brady, Allen, or Burrow. At this point I'll take Carr-like production and hope my team is good enough otherwise to be competitive with the better teams in the league.

And we do have a clue what Mac and Thornton can become, we've seen them play, so we can project future returns. I could end up being wildly wrong about Thornton but I'm skeptical he'll amount to much. It's hard to come up with a physical comp for Thornton but Robbie Anderson comes to mind and he was an UDFA out of Temple. Anderson averages 13 Y/R and 45 Y/G with a 55.8 catch%... those would represent significant improvements for Thornton and I would set his ceiling for 2023 on those numbers.

I'll get back to you with projections for Mac... at this point I'm waiting to see what happens with the WR corps.

Devin Smith, Jaylen Waddle and some other receivers have been doing just fine in the NFL and are as thin if not thinner than Thornton

Waddle, again, not a good physical comp for Thornton. He's 5 inches shorter and the same weight. He's also a 6th overall pick with massive potential who had an excellent rookie season followed by an even better one. Same with DeVonta Smith, 10th overall pick, could have been a pro bowler in year two. You bring up these names, and it raises the bar for Thornton, unfairly, because he's not going to be anywhere close to these guys.

 

[TheRainMaker]

And for good reason too.

We go to the SB in 2010 with Golden Tate;

We Win the SB in 2011 with him;

And we might've gone again in 2012 with him...

That's how big of a ****up picking Germy Cunnyham instead of him was.

Many Pats fans don't want to accept that that the 10 year drought was because of poor drafts from 2005-2009. Their glaring weaknesses on offense or defense reared it's ugly head in their playoff loses.

Even with the whiff of Cunningham, the 2010 draft was arguably Bill's best.

 

[crawhammer]

Many Pats fans don't want accept that that the 10 year drought was because of poor drafts from 2005-2009. Their glaring weaknesses on offense or defense reared it's ugly head in their playoff loses.

Even with the whiff of Cunningham, the 2010 draft was arguably Bill's best.

Gronk and Hernandez in the same draft. Both had major red flags which dropped them. Reportedly several teams had Hernandez off their boards. The concerns for both certainly came to fruition in their careers. As great as Gronk was, injuries took a huge toll on his numbers, and availability, missing the 2012, 2013, and 2016 postseasons, while being reduced to a decoy in SB 46.

What can be said about Hernandez at this point? Only got 3 seasons out of him (with him also missing a bunch of time with injuries). It's an obvious understatement but he completely wasted his life and ruined many others.

 

[Wozzy]

Yes, actually you are. Thornton's detractors are pointing to his size and you're replying Thornton doesn't need to be the size of Metcalf to get open... the players you name as similarly not needing Metcalf's size are Moss, Jackson, and Patten. Moss was taller and much heavier than Thornton, so there's that flaw in your comparison, and Moss also happens to be one of the greatest WR in the history of the game. DeSean Jackson is much shorter than Thornton and only weighs 7 pounds less. Jackson also happens to be one the most explosive downfield targets in the history of the game. Patten as I already pointed out was shorter and more compact so you've failed to make even one legitimate size comparison with Thornton. And I don't know if Thornton can duplicate Patten's numbers but if he can average 18 Y/R with 7 or so TDs (Patten's ceiling) then I'll consider it a win.


I at least have a clue that I would never mention Metcalf, Moss or Jackson in any sort of comparison with Thornton. Likewise Mac isn't going to be Brady, Allen, or Burrow. At this point I'll take Carr-like production and hope my team is good enough otherwise to be competitive with the better teams in the league.

And we do have a clue what Mac and Thornton can become, we've seen them play, so we can project future returns. I could end up being wildly wrong about Thornton but I'm skeptical he'll amount to much. It's hard to come up with a physical comp for Thornton but Robbie Anderson comes to mind and he was an UDFA out of Temple. Anderson averages 13 Y/R and 45 Y/G with a 55.8 catch%... those would represent significant improvements for Thornton and I would set his ceiling for 2023 on those numbers.

I'll get back to you with projections for Mac... at this point I'm waiting to see what happens with the WR corps.


Waddle, again, not a good physical comp for Thornton. He's 5 inches shorter and the same weight. He's also a 6th overall pick with massive potential who had an excellent rookie season followed by an even better one. Same with DeVonta Smith, 10th overall pick, could have been a pro bowler in year two. You bring up these names, and it raises the bar for Thornton, unfairly, because he's not going to be anywhere close to these guys.

This is a long winded load of BS.

Someone said Thornton didn’t have good agility drills predraft, someone else said neither did Metcalf.

Your translation “so and so compared Tyquon to Metcalf.”

Lying, misrepresentation, negative guesswork… it’s your entire schtick.

 

[crawhammer]

This is a long winded load of BS.

Someone said Thornton didn’t have good agility drills predraft, someone else said neither did Metcalf.

Your translation “so and so compared Tyquon to Metcalf.”

Lying, misrepresentation, negative guesswork… it’s your entire schtick.

Sure thing.

This is you...

Ty Thornton: 7.25 Cone, 4.39 Shuttle
DK Metcalf: 7.23 Cone, 4.39 Shuttle

That's called a comparison. You made it. Own it.

 

[State]

Yes, actually you are. Thornton's detractors are pointing to his size and you're replying Thornton doesn't need to be the size of Metcalf to get open... the players you name as similarly not needing Metcalf's size are Moss, Jackson, and Patten. Moss was taller and much heavier than Thornton, so there's that flaw in your comparison, and Moss also happens to be one of the greatest WR in the history of the game. DeSean Jackson is much shorter than Thornton and only weighs 7 pounds less. Jackson also happens to be one the most explosive downfield targets in the history of the game. Patten as I already pointed out was shorter and more compact so you've failed to make even one legitimate size comparison with Thornton. And I don't know if Thornton can duplicate Patten's numbers but if he can average 18 Y/R with 7 or so TDs (Patten's ceiling) then I'll consider it a win.


I at least have a clue that I would never mention Metcalf, Moss or Jackson in any sort of comparison with Thornton. Likewise Mac isn't going to be Brady, Allen, or Burrow. At this point I'll take Carr-like production and hope my team is good enough otherwise to be competitive with the better teams in the league.

And we do have a clue what Mac and Thornton can become, we've seen them play, so we can project future returns. I could end up being wildly wrong about Thornton but I'm skeptical he'll amount to much. It's hard to come up with a physical comp for Thornton but Robbie Anderson comes to mind and he was an UDFA out of Temple. Anderson averages 13 Y/R and 45 Y/G with a 55.8 catch%... those would represent significant improvements for Thornton and I would set his ceiling for 2023 on those numbers.

I'll get back to you with projections for Mac... at this point I'm waiting to see what happens with the WR corps.


Waddle, again, not a good physical comp for Thornton. He's 5 inches shorter and the same weight. He's also a 6th overall pick with massive potential who had an excellent rookie season followed by an even better one. Same with DeVonta Smith, 10th overall pick, could have been a pro bowler in year two. You bring up these names, and it raises the bar for Thornton, unfairly, because he's not going to be anywhere close to these guys.

The best comparison to Boney T is Jameson Williams. Body size and type, elite speed, and the talent for not being on the field much.

 

[DaBruinz]

for god sake stop the zappe nonsense

For GOD SAKE! Stop with your nonsense. He was talking about how Thornton played. NOT about Zappe being good.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Many Pats fans don't want to accept that that the 10 year drought was because of poor drafts from 2005-2009. Their glaring weaknesses on offense or defense reared it's ugly head in their playoff loses.

Even with the whiff of Cunningham, the 2010 draft was arguably Bill's best.

My God, a 10-year drought between SB victories. The "drought" is because, all else being equal (and the league is dead set on not only all else being equal, but all being rigged against NE,) it's a 32-1 shot that you will be in a "drought" year. 7 of 32 teams at present are not in a drought, the most prominently represented among them being your New England Football PATRIOTS. You know what's responsible for "only" winning 6 of 19 SBs, and "only" being in 9 of them? Fluckin MATH you Dombas region of Ukraine.

Here are the last 10 SB winners, us very much included:
Chiefs x 2
Rams
Buccaneers
Patriots x 3
Eagles
Broncos
Seahawks

At present, every other team is in what you call a "10 year drought." A "10 year drought" is significantly better than the mean. You do understand that don't you? There are 25 teams in the NFL in a "10 year drought," and one is the JETE.

Do you even get how stupid it is to look for the "blame" for the results the Pats have gotten from 2001 to 2019? And if it takes a minute to get back, do you even understand how long other teams have to wait?

Were you ever a fan before the Brady years? The wait can be real. Maybe you're an old guy like me, but you just don't have perspective. If not, you might still be waiting when I die. I don't wish that on you, but dang, the JETE are at over a half a century "drought."

You don't need an "explanation" for "only" being in 12 of 19 SBs and "only" winning 6 of them in a 32 team league. It's like "what kind of slacker Mongol was to blame for only ruling 1/6 of the Earth's surface?"

 

[Wozzy]

This is you...

That's called a comparison. You made it. Own it.

Somebody asked about three cone and shuttle, I gave both.

I also referenced David Patten and agreed with the general premise of the conversation, that agility drills are less necessary with fast field stretchers because you're not paying them the play in the slot. If a WR can be a crafty 3 route runner and has blazing speed he can be dangerous, especially if he's good in the red zone.

Your BS is that I never give guarantees on rookies, ever... even if I think they're good or great prospects. I never would say "Thornton is Metcalf" because they look nothing alike.

All I'll tell you is who are great athletes, and that the draft is a crapshoot.

Only one of us here is pretending to see into the future.

It's a chickens bet. The average NFL career lasts 3 seasons. WR has the highest rate of failure among NFL draft picks on offense.

You better hope Thornton sucks, because if he doesn't... you'll look like a fool.

 

[Wozzy]

For GOD SAKE! Stop with your nonsense. He was talking about how Thornton played. NOT about Zappe being good.

I was talking about both actually, Zappe played well in a bad situation.

People think for Zappe to be good, Mac has to be bad. Why?

There's the distinct possibility they're both good, or could become great even.

Individual teams have rostered multiple good QB's in the past.

There's also the possibility they both suck, they were both good prospects so I doubt it, at least one will be good.

 

[Pape]

And for good reason too.

We go to the SB in 2010 with Golden Tate;

We Win the SB in 2011 with him;

And we might've gone again in 2012 with him...

That's how big of a ****up picking Germy Cunnyham instead of him was.

stop it... thats a big pile of manure you are spreading... if we picked tate, you'd just be *****ing about another wr flop... he spent like 4 or 5 games inactive... didnt know the playbook, was a bad route runner his rookie season... combine that with a bad ankle, recipe for a prototypical pats wr bust draft pick... tate wouldnt have helped us get anywhere that year... and was only slightly better in year 2... you'da been *****ing about that pick for a decade now if they had made it...

taylor price ⇄ golden tate in 2010...

 

[Wozzy]

And for good reason too.

We go to the SB in 2010 with Golden Tate;

We Win the SB in 2011 with him;

And we might've gone again in 2012 with him...

That's how big of a ****up picking Germy Cunnyham instead of him was.

The biggest reason the team floundered in 2010 was they paid Ty Warren a cornerstone sized contract and he immediately suffered a career ending hip injury. We had to watch Kyle Love start next to Vince after that. Nice guy and all... but he wasn't Ty Warren.

We also paid Leigh Bodden a nice two year deal and he got hurt, along with Ghost, Kevin Faulk, Steve Neal and Mike Wright just before the playoffs.... but yeah, it that was one guy we forgot to draft you were telling us about back then... laughable.

All they drafted in 2010 was Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Brandon Spikes, Ted Larsen, Brandon Deaderick, Zoltan Mesko... but they needed to draft better, like GM Captain Stoned telling us who was great years later using his keen powers of hindsight.

 

[DaBruinz]

I was talking about both actually, Zappe played well in a bad situation.

People think for Zappe to be good, Mac has to be bad. Why?

There's the distinct possibility they're both good, or could become great even.

Individual teams have rostered multiple good QB's in the past.

There's also the possibility they both suck, they were both good prospects so I doubt it, at least one will be good.

You got me.. This was a topic about Thornton, not Zappe. So I figured that was your focus. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

By the way, I am provisionally super-psyched for the outside game. I truly want the blame-placing to be right on, with Patricia and Judge just not understanding offense, and BB apparently misunderstanding that while you can hire "football players" (i.e., swisss army knives) and be the terror of the league, you can't hire "football coaches" and expect offensive coaching to be defensive coaching backwards and in heels. Ginger Rodgers joke, look it up. I really want the Coach Implosion explanation for our O in 22 to be accurate. So it is written, so let it have been the problem.

If that's the problem, we have on our hands...
1 standard issue 4.4-ish contested-ball grabber, in Devante Parker
1 standard issue sub 4.3-speed receiver, with a half-year of pro ball under his diminuitive belt, eager to get a full season under it, in TyKHANNNNN Thornton;
1 ready-to-get-past-the-Patricia-issue Kendrick Bourne; and
1 Jakobi Meyers plus upside in Ju Ju Smith-Shuster.

We also have at least Parker and Bourne well aware that the possible importation of that free agent guy immediately puts their jobs on the line. Parker cannot just park it, and the Bourne Supremacy is at risk of being judged the Bourne Redundancy once and for all. Pretty nice impact hire for zero years at zero dollars to date. If we pick up Hops, hope he's worth the scratch, of course!

Camp is setting up to be heavier on the "no, really, don't get too comfortable, your job is on the line" dynamic. Jonnu was a super dud, Hunter Henry was worth it-ish. Overpaid to be good but not great, have to admit. For that $, he should be in a tier under the monsters with K in their names, which is how you can tell a great tight end now. He's really performed a little short of that, at just "good." Speaking of the K thing, Welcome Mike Giesecki, by the way.

Okay I really just woke up too early. Hope everybody's having a great Wednesday, a hump day in a hump year of a second 10 year drought. Or not. That could be good or bad though.

 

[Triumph]

People think for Zappe to be good, Mac has to be bad. Why?

Because the ONLY way you know if Mac is good or bad is by playing on Sunday. All the camp reports of greatness are bull5hit.

Zappe gets his chance when Mac fails unless BB is stubborn again and sticks with Mac with the team losing. Which will be very disappointing because BB always preached and won by doing whats best for the TEAM.

Make no mistake, regardless which QB wins in camp, Mac will be the starter day 1 because of where he was drafted.

 

[Wozzy]

Because the ONLY way you know if Mac is good or bad is by playing on Sunday. All the camp reports of greatness are bull5hit.

Zappe gets his chance when Mac fails unless BB is stubborn again and sticks with Mac with the team losing. Which will be very disappointing because BB always preached and won by doing whats best for the TEAM.

Make no mistake, regardless which QB wins in camp, Mac will be the starter day 1 because of where he was drafted.

If Mac plays well you may not see Zappe play and Bailey could also be very good is my point… only one will play.

If Mac sucks they’ll replace him with Zappe fast, they don’t give a rat’s azz about draft position at this point.

 

[Triumph]

If Mac plays well you may not see Zappe play and Bailey could also be very good is my point… only one will play.

If Mac sucks they’ll replace him with Zappe fast, they don’t give a rat’s azz about draft position at this point.

False

No way can BB not start Jones. None.

 

[Wozzy]

False

No way can BB not start Jones. None.

Oh BS… the guy started Brady over 100 million dollar man when he returned from injury and Tom was 5-3, and he started so many UDFA’s over the years it’s not funny.

Mac will start because he has done nothing to lose his job and he has been here a year longer. If he turns the ball over he will lose his job.

 

[patfanken]

Yes, actually you are. Thornton's detractors are pointing to his size and you're replying Thornton doesn't need to be the size of Metcalf to get open... the players you name as similarly not needing Metcalf's size are Moss, Jackson, and Patten. Moss was taller and much heavier than Thornton, so there's that flaw in your comparison, and Moss also happens to be one of the greatest WR in the history of the game. DeSean Jackson is much shorter than Thornton and only weighs 7 pounds less. Jackson also happens to be one the most explosive downfield targets in the history of the game. Patten as I already pointed out was shorter and more compact so you've failed to make even one legitimate size comparison with Thornton. And I don't know if Thornton can duplicate Patten's numbers but if he can average 18 Y/R with 7 or so TDs (Patten's ceiling) then I'll consider it a win.


I at least have a clue that I would never mention Metcalf, Moss or Jackson in any sort of comparison with Thornton. Likewise Mac isn't going to be Brady, Allen, or Burrow. At this point I'll take Carr-like production and hope my team is good enough otherwise to be competitive with the better teams in the league.

And we do have a clue what Mac and Thornton can become, we've seen them play, so we can project future returns. I could end up being wildly wrong about Thornton but I'm skeptical he'll amount to much. It's hard to come up with a physical comp for Thornton but Robbie Anderson comes to mind and he was an UDFA out of Temple. Anderson averages 13 Y/R and 45 Y/G with a 55.8 catch%... those would represent significant improvements for Thornton and I would set his ceiling for 2023 on those numbers.

I'll get back to you with projections for Mac... at this point I'm waiting to see what happens with the WR corps.


Waddle, again, not a good physical comp for Thornton. He's 5 inches shorter and the same weight. He's also a 6th overall pick with massive potential who had an excellent rookie season followed by an even better one. Same with DeVonta Smith, 10th overall pick, could have been a pro bowler in year two. You bring up these names, and it raises the bar for Thornton, unfairly, because he's not going to be anywhere close to these guys.

Not getting the "size" question here. Aren't we forgetting that the BEST WR in the league (or in the top 3) is just 5'10 and 180lbs

Now I have NO idea how Thornton will turn out. I was VERY unimpressed by hislack of explosiveness his first year. It looked to me like he was over thinking every step and just played slow. I just never saw that 4.2 speed in his play. That being said, the Pats run an intricate route system where the WR has to read defenses on the fly. It's NOTHING like run and shoot kind of offense he had at Baylor in the defenseless big 12. Then add the coaching mess we had last year on offense and it doesn't make it any better for him.

Now this year, by all reports, he's looks significantly stronger and thicker. PERHAPS we will see the mental side of the game will start to match the speed of his physical abilities....... or not. we can only wait and see.