Realistic trade packages to move up and take a QB in the draft

[patsfaninpa]

If 5 qb’s go in Top 10, a very good player will fall to 15. Take that player. Draft Mond in 2nd.

 

[moosekill]

The patriots have a ton of picks and very few holes. I still think they package a bunch to move up.

 

[Steve102]

The freakin' ransom the 9ers paid is ridiculous. Lynch better hope he hits on this, or he's out of a job. Paid Glass Jimmy stupid money on a handful of starts and he can't stay in the line up. Gave away the future drafts to score now. If his QB is a bust, he's out.

 

[Love The Drake]

The freakin' ransom the 9ers paid is ridiculous. Lynch better hope he hits on this, or he's out of a job. Paid Glass Jimmy stupid money on a handful of starts and he can't stay in the line up. Gave away the future drafts to score now. If his QB is a bust, he's out.

Lynch maybe holding our head to the fire for 1 to safe face.

 

[Steve102]

Lynch maybe holding our head to the fire for 1 to safe face.

Bill will tell him to go eff himself. Cut him and eat the money. Bill 100% wins that game of chicken.

 

[mgteich]

If we want Mac Jones we will need to trade up, I doubt he gets past Carolina at 8

CAR will likely pick at 4 (or even 2).

 

[Huckleberry1]

Bill will tell him to go eff himself. Cut him and eat the money. Bill 100% wins that game of chicken.

Normally I would agree with this, but not with the Bears desperate for a QB. If what Belichick wants is Garrapolo back he will have to be aggressive. Offer next years 1st, which is actually 2nd round value, and it replaces SF’s loss of their 2022 1st for them. Belichick would play chicken if it’s any other position, but QB is different, and the Patriots really need one.

 

[Steve102]

Normally I would agree with this, but not with the Bears desperate for a QB. If what Belichick wants is Garrapolo back he will have to be aggressive. Offer next years 1st, which is actually 2nd round value, and it replaces SF’s loss of their 2022 1st for them. Belichick would play chicken if it’s any other position, but QB is different, and the Patriots really need one.

I think Jimmy has a no trade clause.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I think Jimmy has a no trade clause.

Yes he does, but Jimmy is from Illinois, so I'm sure he would waive it to go home. I'm guessing the Bears would be the Pats competition for Jimmy.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I think Jimmy has a no trade clause.

Good to know but I think his contract would be the biggest obstacle, as he will have to redo it to come back to NE. The 49ers are in a decent position with him right now because of the contract and because they can simply hang onto him for another year if they feel like it. I’m hoping the Patriots can swing a deal for him but to this point I still think the chances are less than 50-50, that’s one of thevreasons I think they should offer next years first rounder, as it restores a first they gave up to move up, and that might entice Lynch into making the deal. I do think the Bears will be aggressive in going after him.

 

[JMC00]

BB's free agent splurge also means he recognized the recent mediocre-to-poor drafts.

no it doesn't, it was from them having a **** ton of cap space and the market being low.


2020- too early to tell about this draft class but Onwenu might have been the OL steal of the draft and Dugger & Uche flashed

2019- Harry hasn't panned out, Winovich has been good, Damien Harris was good last season, Bailey is a pro-bowl punter

2018- Wynn has had a couple of rotten luck injuries but has been very good, Michel people will say he sucks and is a bust but he helped win a SB and apparently it's ok to blame the OL for Brady's issues in 2019 but not Michel's who had a 5.7 ypc avg behind a better/healthier OL

and the guys he went and signed aren't guys that were replacing guys drafted

Smith & Henry- the most glaring need for the team for 2 seasons but it wasn't because of drafting. I also don't think people can honestly say Asasi & Keene were viewed as guys that would be #1 TEs going forward. They always seemed like guys that could be #2 & #3 TEs if they went and got a Smith or Henry, which they did and Keene might be listed as a TE but he's more a utility knife H-back/FB/TE player.

Judon- massive improvement over John Simon

Mills- Patrick Chung/Jason McCourty replacement

Brown (trade)- Thuney left, Onwenu projects to slot into LG and Brown will go to RT

Goldchaux/Anderson/Adams- retooling the DL which had been mostly been built and hurt by FA, not drafting.

Bourne- Edelman replacement. Pats can't depend on Edelman for a full season anymore.

Agholor- only one you can make a case was a signing because of a draft pick not panning out so far

I expect nothing less than a successful draft. That means getting a very good QB.

Mac Jones isn't a very good QB and that's the only QB they have a chance to draft that has a 1st round grade unless they make Falcons an offer that is worth them moving back 11 spots

 

[TomPatriot]

BB would have signed higher priced FAs - or fewer FAs or kept Thuney - if he just had money to burn and no holes to fill. He didn't. No one in the NFL thinks the Pats have drafted well in the last few years.

I didn't advocate that BB draft Mac Jones. They obviously need a promising young QB.

The TEs were signed because Asiasi and Keene haven"t worked out so far. They were drafted in the third round. It's not like they were picked in the 7th round. BB has passed on other TEs over the years. It came back to bite him.

You list many of the FAs signed and who they replaced. Draftees could have replaced them but didn't. Why? Not good enough. That includes Winowich, who can't set the edge and is often out of position. It wouldn't shock me if he gets traded.

The DL is full of FAs because Easley, Brown, Rivers, Wise, Valentine, Cowart and others drafted weren't good enough.

There are going to be bad drafts and bad draft choices. Even the best have them. But to say that the FA acquisitions had little to do with the drafting over the last several years. doesn't make sense to me.

 

[DW Toys]

If we want Mac Jones we will need to trade up, I doubt he gets past Carolina at 8

Unquestionably

Mac Jones? I think he is a better Kirk Cousins and that's not bad........... I'll take it. Had a nice quiet Saturday breakfast of a Mexican cheese and egg omlette, maple smoked bacon, pan fried potatoes seared in a champagne type dressing, a half of an English muffin with blackberry jelly and a piece of b;blueberry banana cake toasted with butter, orange juice and a mug of coffee.

Cousin, as I ponder this QB scenario the paths to take are Jimmie G, and I am not sold but if he is the last cookie in the cookie jar....I guess. nYou must build a moat around him in the NFL allows it or something because




Jimmie G.

You are gonna spend with picks for Jimmie G. or an unproven rookie anyway. Reading tea leaves? It seems like Bill has commuted to Cam for 2021. Now can that be supplemented by a rookie for some snaps? sure. But getting Jimmie G. in here would probably force a Cam trade. Has anybody on this forum thought of that? Bill is loyal when he pulls the trigger like Brady over Bledose.

Let's say you trade for Jimmie G with our #46, a 4th #135 and Cam.....Cam? If the Niners are going to go Tre Lance, who is the better QB to learn from for what you do? Jimmie G. or Can if you are Shanahan?

I'd be scared to death about Fields as I see another Dwayne Haskins possibility and the lack of success of Ohio State QBs in the pros.
I'd rather overpay for Jones.

You have three bites of the apple:
Falcons at #4=Our first at #15, our second at #46 two 4ths at #120 and #122 equal alomst a perfect match, value point chart wise. But if I am the Falcons I want more. Desperate for a CB, throw in Gilmore.

Now the dilemma, #4 is too early for Jones and Fields is too scary. So to embarrass myself here, I am going to foster an Eli Manning type trade!? Let's take Fields. Then action him off. Let's say the Bronco's wanted him at pick #9. So I make a deal with Elway to pick Jones at#9 and give us your second rounder #40 and we give them Fields. Or maybe Carolina throws us a bunch of first rounders.

You can almost use the same package for the Bengals or maybe the Lions. All three would tale Gilmore if the trade was picks+

Thoughts?
DW Toys




DW Toys

 

[jmt57]

Originally I was all in on doing whatever was necessary to trade up as far as possible for the best QB the Pats could draft. After yesterday's trades I feel that may not be possible, or will require too much capital and result in poor value in return.

If the Patriots cannot reasonably move up to #7 in a trade with Detroit, then perhaps the best move would be to target someone like Davis Mills or Jamie Newman a bit later. The one caveat is that with so many QBs presumably going early, will that cause second tier QBs to be drafted earlier than had been projected as well? Using #15 on one of them is a reach, but will either one still be available at #46?

Assuming QBs go 1-2-3 to the Jaguars, Jets and 49ers, other potential early QB picks could be:

• Falcons (probably not #4, but possibly #2.35; eventual replacement for Matt Ryan)
• Dolphins (probably not #6 or #18, but maybe 2.36; insurance if Tua does not work out)
• Panthers (#8 or 2.39; upgrade over Teddy Bridgewater)
• Broncos (#9 or 2.40; upgrade over Drew Lock)
• Eagles (will not be #12 after trading down, but perhaps 2.37; insurance if Jalen Hurts does not work out)
• Washington (#19; upgrade over Ryan Fitzpatrick / Taylor Heinicke)
• Bears (#20; upgrade over Andy Dalton / Nick Foles)
• Steelers (#24; gives Pittsburgh time to groom a raw prospect to replace Roethlisberger in 2022/23)
• Saints (#28; highly unlikely, but insurance in case Jameis Winston is not the answer)

Obviously not all of these teams will draft a QB early, and draft day trades will change the draft picture immensely. If the Patriots don't have the ammunition to move up for what is reasonable and a good value, so be it. But if that is the case I would not mind a bit of a reach further down for a second tier QB like Mills or Newman. That to me would be far preferable than being left with two choices: overpaying for Jimmy G, or heading into 2021 training camp with only Newton, Stidham, and perhaps a rookie QB none of us has ever heard of.

Overall I see 12 teams that will or could potentially take a QB early: Jax, NYJ, SF, Panthers, Broncos, Patriots, Washington, Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, Eagles and Steelers.

However there are only nine QBs that seem worth drafting in the first three rounds - and all could conceivably be gone by the time the Pats make a choice in round two at #46: Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Trey Lance, Mac Jones, ... Kyle Trask, Jamie Newman, Davis Mills, and Kellen Mond. Some team(s) will be left out in this game of musical chairs; hopefully the Patriots are not one of them.

 

[JMC00]

BB would have signed higher priced FAs - or fewer FAs or kept Thuney - if he just had money to burn and no holes to fill. He didn't. No one in the NFL thinks the Pats have drafted well in the last few years.

Except report was they were in for Thuney until the last moment. As for what people in the nfl think. I don't give 1 single f**k what they think. These were the same people that said Pats only won because Belichick filmed sh!t everyone in the stadium can see and that Brady was a system QB. The Belichick "can't draft' **** is just a meme people whip out. "No pro bowl players drafted" Pro bowl selection is an absolute garbage metric to go by.

I didn't advocate that BB draft Mac Jones. They obviously need a promising young QB.

You did. Because the 4 QBs worth drafting in the 1st will be gone by the time the Pats pick. Only way it's happening is if they trade up to 4 which isn't happening

The TEs were signed because Asiasi and Keene haven"t worked out so far. They were drafted in the third round. It's not like they were picked in the 7th round. BB has passed on other TEs over the years. It came back to bite him.

End of the 3rd round picks are now supposed click in their rookie season with virtually no pre-season in a system that isn't easy to pick up. Got it.

You list many of the FAs signed and who they replaced. Draftees could have replaced them but didn't. Why? Not good enough. That includes Winowich, who can't set the edge and is often out of position. It wouldn't shock me if he gets traded.

So you're argument is just sticking your fingers in ears, closing your eyes and shaking your head? As for Winovich you're wrong on that, Pats run defense was better when he was on the field. His issue was something that went on between him and Bill.

The DL is full of FAs because Easley, Brown, Rivers, Wise, Valentine, Cowart and others drafted weren't good enough.

Easley. A guy drafted 7 years ago. He would have been gone 2 years ago if he panned out just like Bill didn't pay Chandler Jones & Trey Flowers. Terrible example.

Brown. Played his rookie deal out, decent player that got paid on the FA market. Terrible example

Rivers. There were 14 DEs taken before Rivers in that draft the only DEs that are still with the teams that drafted them are Myles Garrett, Derek Barnett, Jonathan Allen and Duane Smoot, the first 3 were top-17 picks.

Wise. a 4th round pick that got a 2nd contract. How is this supposed to be an example of poor drafting?

Valentine. another end of 3rd round flier pick. Every team, every year makes these kind of picks that don't end up working out. If the guys were as good as you think they should be they wouldn't be a 3rd round comp pick

Cowart- 5th round pick, rotational DL that was in his 2nd year this year and played 40% of the snaps. Another terrible example by you

There are going to be bad drafts and bad draft choices. Even the best have them. But to say that the FA acquisitions had little to do with the drafting over the last several years. doesn't make sense to me.

that's because you are using it as confirmation bias

 

[zipster9]

CAR will likely pick at 4 (or even 2).

Panthers will pick Trey, not Jones.

 

[Mark Morse]

Per Chris Simms of Pro Football Talk says Mac Jones is the 49ers guy!

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Per Chris Simms of Pro Football Talk says Mac Jones is the 49ers guy!

the 49ers had guys at Alabama’s pro day. They spoke with saban. The timing of the trade fits with the 49ers being convinced of Jones after the pro day.