Realistic trade packages to move up and take a QB in the draft

[yukon cornelius]

i mean Bill is the guy that started using a bunch of the SEALS screening methods when evaluating players.......we have no idea what they are looking at beyond what we see on tape.......about the only thing that WOULD surprise me at this point is the pats trading up into one of the top 3 spots......beyond that, i think i'm prepared for near anything

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Trey Lance has only played his freshman season, has never taken the field against any player who will ever be in the NFL, and you want mortgage the future on him and give him the keys to the Kingdom?

This matters I agree but not nearly as much as you're making it out to be. Who's the best player Zach Wilson played against? I could say the same about a ton of players who played against guys who would never sniff the NFL. It's something to consider but not that big a deal imo.

What's the reason he went to NDSU? Every Div 1 school wanted him to play DB, none of them considered him as a QB.

And they were hilariously wrong, I'm not sure this is the best point or even a point considering he passed for 28-0 TD/INT during that year. He clearly had what it takes, coaches were way off here.

Also how smart, no pun intended. Does Kirby Smart look rn regarding Fields?

Tom O'Brien coached for years and told Russell Wilson he'd never play in the NFL. Told him he doesn't want him back and named Mike Glennon the starter.

There's a lot of examples like this

Lance is the biggest "what if" in this draft. Kellon Mond would have had just as much if not more sucess if he was at NDSU, but instead he is a three year starter in the SEC.

You're gambling on yourself picking Lawrence and putting the best team possible around him. Same to a lesser degree with Fields imo.

Zach Wilson played against no one & has issues like everyone else.

How will Mac Jones perform without superior pass protection? Will he get a creative coach like Sark?

Last year Cinci gambled on Burrow's year.

Mia on Tua's health.

Chargers on Herbert "what he can do vs what he was asked to do" and up & down film. Same to an extent with Love.

I wouldn't mind Mond in the 3rd-4th if we're really set on giving Stidham some competition.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

Hard not to like a QB like Jones with a 77% completion rate and a 41 to 4 TD/Int ration.. he also comes from the battle hardened SEC.

It is said he cannot throw the long ball, with 2 quality TE's + better receivers he might not have to and they can return to the dink & dunk yac days...

I’m liking Jones more and more by the day. Brady didn’t have much of a deep ball those first few years as I recall.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Mac Jones is appealing if we don't have to give up much or anything to get him. If he's still there at 15, I think we have to take him, and we can't count on trading down and still getting him cause Washington is picking at 19. What I see is that he makes quick decisions and always seems to get it to the right guy and on time, never late. Seems to have good touch on short passes, but not sure about arm strength in general. He's accurate if he completed 77% of his attempts. He's reasonably mobile, has good speed. Played with and against the best athletes and teams in college, in a pro offense, and seems pretty intelligent so his adaptation period should be short.

The other calculation is now that Stidham has had 2 years to get acclimated to a pro offense, how good is he? Is Jones appreciably better? I think there's a chance we already have a Mac Jones on our roster, and he's capable of beating out Cam this year.

 

[Ring 6]

If you did trade Gilmore as part of a package (#15 or 46) it would free up another 15 million in cap space... which I was initially reluctant to consider, but more cap space will open up other options..

It won’t free up 15 million.
Gilmore costs us 9 mill whether he plays for us or a different team.
He costs us an additional 7 to play for us.

So it’s 9 mill to watch him play for someone else or 16 mill to have him.

 

[mgteich]

Mac Jones is appealing if we don't have to give up much or anything to get him. If he's still there at 15, I think we have to take him, and we can't count on trading down and still getting him cause Washington is picking at 19. What I see is that he makes quick decisions and always seems to get it to the right guy and on time, never late. Seems to have good touch on short passes, but not sure about arm strength in general. He's accurate if he completed 77% of his attempts. He's reasonably mobile, has good speed. Played with and against the best athletes and teams in college, in a pro offense, and seems pretty intelligent so his adaptation period should be short.

The other calculation is now that Stidham has had 2 years to get acclimated to a pro offense, how good is he? Is Jones appreciably better? I think there's a chance we already have a Mac Jones on our roster, and he's capable of beating out Cam this year.

So, if our 5 year starter is available at 15, that's fine. If we have to give up a 2nd, then that is horrifying and we should try to find a QB is the 2nd.

We need to recognize that drafting our franchise/top 10 quarterback is not the same as drafting a LB. This is the first time the patriots have done this in a generation (since drafting Bledsoe).

 

[Ring 6]

This matters I agree but not nearly as much as you're making it out to be. Who's the best player Zach Wilson played against? I could say the same about a ton of players who played against guys who would never sniff the NFL. It's something to consider but not that big a deal imo.

And they were hilariously wrong, I'm not sure this is the best point or even a point considering he passed for 28-0 TD/INT during that year. He clearly had what it takes, coaches were way off here.

Also how smart, no pun intended. Does Kirby Smart look rn regarding Fields?

Tom O'Brien coached for years and told Russell Wilson he'd never play in the NFL. Told him he doesn't want him back and named Mike Glennon the starter.

There's a lot of examples like this

You're gambling on yourself picking Lawrence and putting the best team possible around him. Same to a lesser degree with Fields imo.

Zach Wilson played against no one & has issues like everyone else.

How will Mac Jones perform without superior pass protection? Will he get a creative coach like Sark?

Last year Cinci gambled on Burrow's year.

Mia on Tua's health.

Chargers on Herbert "what he can do vs what he was asked to do" and up & down film. Same to an extent with Love.

I wouldn't mind Mond in the 3rd-4th if we're really set on giving Stidham some competition.

I think something that stands out to be is hoe do many people take questions and turn them into flaws.

Not playing against great competition means there is a question of how his game would change against a higher level of competition. And it’s very legitimate. But not playing against great competition isn’t an argument against the skills and ability of the player.
The same goes for “every qb from that school sucked”.
Those guys have nothing to do with this guy. By that approach you would conclude the greatest player ever sucks because of where he went to school. Which actual is something that really happened.
Many things that get used as a fatal flaw are just circumstantial and are exactly the things that get coached up in the next level.

 

[ashley]

 

[Ring 6]

So, if our 5 year starter is available at 15, that's fine. If we have to give up a 2nd, then that is horrifying and we should try to find a QB is the 2nd.

We need to recognize that drafting our franchise/top 10 quarterback is not the same as drafting a LB. This is the first time the patriots have done this in a generation (since drafting Bledsoe).

Giving up the second to get the right guy is horrifying and you’d rather draft the wrong guy? Really?

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

Just to note, this is exactly what Washington did in 2012. Traded a huge package to move up for RGIII, then drafted Cousins with the 4th rounder. Not saying that Washington is a franchise anyone should emulate in general, but it actually worked out pretty decently for them when RGIII’s injury effectively ended his NFL starting career.

1982 draft. Colts took art schlichter with the 4th overall pick and Mike Pagel in the 4th round. Pagel started more games with the colts than Schlichter at qb.

 

[Ross12]

I have started to wonder if maybe Belichick is recognizing some of his whiffs in the draft and is putting more faith in the scouts around him. More of a focus on coaching and less on the GM role - which IMO is a little surprising since I had thought he would eventually move into the front office only and hand coaching to someone else. But at the end of the day he loves to coach, lives to coach.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

I have started to wonder if maybe Belichick is recognizing some of his whiffs in the draft and is putting more faith in the scouts around him. More of a focus on coaching and less on the GM role - which IMO is a little surprising since I had thought he would eventually move into the front office only and hand coaching to someone else. But at the end of the day he loves to coach, lives to coach.

I want Belichick to coach I want him to sell free agents on him but I want those free agents to be picked out by our talent staff and I want nowhere near the phone on Draft day.

 

[manxman2601]

You had me until “trade them 15 for Jimmy G.” That would be a bigtime overpay.

With his injury history I’m not over keen on trading for him anyway, but I can’t imagine a starting QB would cost much less.

 

[DW Toys]

I

I do like Mond a lot. I don’t think he’s as athletic or has the arm strength.
Schools have been wrong before Mr Tom Brady was benched for Drew Henson. Just saying. If they trade up for Lance they better be damn sure.

Thought about how to dissect this post Cousins while I enjoy my mug of coffee
Paths to move up has a few road maps. We have some constants.
I see 7 QBs involed in this Draft and as one poster said, if you wanted to move for a "franchise" QB (well overused term) this is the year
Lawrence
Fields
Wilson
Lance
Jones
Trask
Mills
Mond ( as first alternate)

Biggest definite maybe? Will the Texans trade Watson who is now damaged goods? The answer should be yes. This takes the pressure off of Nick C. and the organization. They have a built in excuse to trade Watson.

If that Trade is still on, this whole thread becomes a wild west shoot out.

Teams that will still trade for Watson in order of desperation:
Chicago Bears, but they are too far way with capital to do a trade
Carolina Panthers who will do anything to get a franchise QB and don't think Tepper has the appetite to wait on a rookie.


What owners have the most money to pay off these Instagram lady masseuses (Watson: What could possibly go wrong?) and esteemed Attorney Mr. Ambu Lance Chaser
David Tepper-Carolina $13 billion (Ranked 41st richest person in the country)
Stephen Ross, Dolphins: $7.2 billion
These guy probably have a fleet of Lawyers and can make this all go away. There are no felonies involved here. It's all civil until now.
:
Teams that will trade for Watson if the right deal happens: and if the heat dies down:
N.E, Patriots
Denver (Elway is king of the QB splashes)
Las Vegas (hold on now. Don't giggle. They have decent wampum in Carr)
Washington.

So let's assume Watson is traded in this exercise Yes it is pertinent to my potential trade up theory.

Pick
1 Jaguars.-Lawrence

2 NYJ-I think the thrill of the Draft and pressure of the Jet's fan base will embolden them to take Zach Wilson because he would be a sexy pick and according the the NY scribes the nest day, the next Mahomes.
a)The new coaching staff did not Draft Arnold so he is not an issue if traded.
c) This could lead them to a Draft day trade to move Darnold?
b) Would the QB also-rans (no move up capability) like Chicago (Ryan Pace must have his wife start his car in the morning), San Francisco, Denver or even the Saints throw a 1st rounder for Darnold?
d) The 49ers might cause another domino to fall with Jimmy G. if they can get Darnold
e) My guess in this experiment would be Darnold to the 493ers for a swap of picks #12 to the Jets for #23 to the 49ers.
f) The 49ers Trade Jimmie G.....not to the Patriots.......... but are sending an Arlington Heights Il. kid to the Chicago Bears for their pick #20 as they are desperate and will throw a first Rounder and Bill won't throw a 1st for Jimmie G.

3 Texans from Miami via Texans. The Dolphins trade QB Tua, CB Xavien Howard, pick #18 in Round 1. #50 in Round 2 and their 2022 1st Round pick for Teaxns QB Deshaiun Watson. Now the Texans could go two ways. They could go QB like Fields or Draft players to put around Tua. My guess would be WR Ja’Marr Chase Stephen Ross will clean up Watson's mess.

4 Falcons. This is the first pressure point IMO. The Falcons will not help inner division foe the Panthers. Also they have just Paid Ryan enough to make it impossible to trade him. So in essence the Falcons are stuck with Ryan for a couple more years. So now you have Carolina, Denver, The Patriots being real suitors and Washington as the wild card. As stated, The Falcons would be reluctant to trade within their divison to Carolina. We found QBs for Chicago and the 49ers.
a) To get it done and gain pick #4 (Rich Hill 491 Trade Points) , the Patrots trade pick #15 (Rich Hill 315 Trade Points in the first Round), #46 (128 points, plus 4th Rounders #120 and #122 which are worth 49 points). Those numbers work almost perfectly. We have our choice of Lance, Fields or Mac Jones as viable first Round candidates.

5 Bengals This trade would cost us less. It might temps Denver to jump us at #4. To obtain the 5th pick from the Bengals (468 Trade Value) we would have to give up #15, plus #46 in the second Round , plus #120 in the 4th and it would be a perfect point match.

6 Eagles. I think we can wheeel and deal with Howie. He needs more pieces. The goal might be to preserve some picks with the Eagles as our trading partner. Do we want to give up Gilmore? Do we want to give up Harry?
The Eagles trade number is 446. The value of our #15 is315. That leaves a difference of 131 value points. I beleive a 2nd rounder value for Gilmore is at least a starting point of a trade discussion. The points suggest that is actually the difference here. CB is still a strong need for the Eagles. Slay and Gilmore would be a great tandem. Simple trade here with our pick #15 and Gilmore to the Eagles for pick #6. I have them going Edge rusher at #15 like Kwity Payne who should be available. A fair trade for all parties.

Or we can stand pat and hope Mac Jones gets to us at #15
Thoughts?
DW Toys

P.S. Never mind.


We are back to the old waiting game,
Forget the Eagles at #6 as it's now Dolphins.
If the don't go OT as in Sewell, the Dolphins will go either Pitts or Parsons at #6.

The Dolphins just fleeced the 49ers.

I am convinced the Jets take Zack Wilson at #2.

Darnold gets traded to the Bears or Panthers.

Jimmie G. is now back in the picture.If the Pats don't want him or if the Panthers outbid Bill we ar back down to Mac Jones. The Panthers wou;ld give up #8 for him I am sure.

So we are back on the Falcons or Bengals. The Panthers are out of the Falcons deal because of conference.

We have the ammo to do either the Falcons or Bengals .........BUT..........we will have to throw more to get their attention.
Our 1st Rounder #15 plus our 2nd Rounder #46, plus our two 4th Rounders #120, #121....Plus Gilmore.
Or #15, plus 1st next year and Gilmore.

Will Bill have the cuhonas to do something now?.....or let's wait until Draft day and see what happens. Put your right hand up if you think that a deal won't be made before then for one or all of the remaining top 5 QB's.

Carolina and Denver could opt for Jones. My next call is to Detroit at pick #7. Probably get it done at our #15 plus our #46 plus Gilmore to have them say uncle. At pick #7 Jones should be safe.That is wat too high for him, but you see what is going on.

New thoughts?
DW Toys











.

 

[TomPatriot]

I have started to wonder if maybe Belichick is recognizing some of his whiffs in the draft and is putting more faith in the scouts around him. More of a focus on coaching and less on the GM role - which IMO is a little surprising since I had thought he would eventually move into the front office only and hand coaching to someone else. But at the end of the day he loves to coach, lives to coach.

I think Eliot Wolf is more than a scout.

You're right. BB's free agent splurge also means he recognized the recent mediocre-to-poor drafts.

I expect nothing less than a successful draft. That means getting a very good QB.

 

[ashley]

Or we can stand pat and hope Mac Jones gets to us at #15
Thoughts?
DW Toys





.

If we want Mac Jones we will need to trade up, I doubt he gets past Carolina at 8

 

[Redman443]

If we want Mac Jones we will need to trade up, I doubt he gets past Carolina at 8

Trade with Detriot. give DET a 2nd from next year, the 15th pick and a 3rd round pick from this year Maybe could add Gilmore to sweeten the deal. Pats get 7th overall pick to take the Mac Attack

 

[ashley]

Trade with Detriot. give DET a 2nd from next year, the 15th pick and a 3rd round pick from this year Maybe could add Gilmore to sweeten the deal. Pats get 7th overall pick to take the Mac Attack

Who would you rather have Mac Jones or Jimmy G?

 

[Redman443]

Who would you rather have Mac Jones or Jimmy G?

Jimmy would make us competitive on day 1 but he’s an injury risk. Mac Jones would require a year or two of development but it would be worth it long term. I’m taking Jones

 

[yukon cornelius]

with the offense they are building, would jones take that long to develop? low ceiling/high floor.....would fit this offense