Realistic roster minima - who's in, who's out for defensive front seven?

[supafly]

Re: Old Counting - 8-9 Linebackers

I have a better idea. Alphabetical order on swole.

ILB: Anderson, brace, Carter, cunningam ellis
OLB: Fletcher, haynesworth, love, mayo
DL: moore Ninkovich pryor warren wilfork

That's 14 so pick one more.

I understand your general idea, but am not getting Anderson, Brace, Carter, Cunningham or Ellis as "ILB's."


Also not getting Fletcher, Haynesworth, Love, or Mayo is "OLB's."


I assume that you have Spikes and Wright on PUP or IR?


Just don't understand your positional groupings. I do however, agree that there will be 15 or 16 front seven players.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I think this is the most interesting part of the roster to watch over the next couple of weeks. Originally, I had 15. I think the depth we have has made me raise it to 16. Won't be shocked if we go to 17. My 16.

DT - Wilfork, Haynesworth, G. Warren, M. Pryor and K. Love
DE - A Carter, J. Cunningham, S. Ellis, M. Anderson and E. Moore
LB(6) - J. Mayo, G. Guyton, D. Fletcher, B. Spikes, R. Ninkovich and the last spot down to T.White/Koutouvides.

Don't know what to make of the guys who aren't playing. But, the expression you can't make the club from the tub is probably going to apply here. We have good not great players whom you can't let go just because you're hoping someone else gets healthy. That's why I didn't put R. Brace, M. Wright and B. Deaderick on my roster. Hope we can put them on the PUP in case we have some injuries and we'll already have and in-house replacement for 6 weeks. Darryl Richard is the guy I'd hate to cut. Maybe he beats out K. Love. Doubt he makes it thru waivers to practice squad. Problem with keeping dl is that they don't help on special teams.

 

[nnmnmmnn]

I think this is the most interesting part of the roster to watch over the next couple of weeks. Originally, I had 15. I think the depth we have has made me raise it to 16. Won't be shocked if we go to 17. My 16.

DT - Wilfork, Haynesworth, G. Warren, M. Pryor and K. Love
DE - A Carter, J. Cunningham, S. Ellis, M. Anderson and E. Moore
LB(6) - J. Mayo, G. Guyton, D. Fletcher, B. Spikes, R. Ninkovich and the last spot down to T.White/Koutouvides.

.

This is exactly my take as well. I've been holding out hope for Ellis, but if we don't see him soon, starting on PUP seems to get more likely, with Richard, Cohen, or Weston getting the spot. Richard might have a slight edge at this point, but all three have a realistic chance.

 

[mgteich]

Your 16 is a very reasonable list (that means I agree with it). I also expect Brace and Deaderick to be on the PUP list. I expect that Wright will be on the IR until he eventually retires.
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However, I see no reason for 17 front seven players. I see 15 more likely than 17. After all, we could use the extra safety/STer. I expect your 16 to make the 53 less one due to injury or simply as a late surprise.
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My "optimum" allocation for defense has always been 15 front seven plus 10 secondary, with the understanding that many special teamers are included, especially in the last five roster spots.

After all, almost all the reps go to the top 6 DL's, 7 LB's and 4 cb's and 3 safeties.

I think this is the most interesting part of the roster to watch over the next couple of weeks. Originally, I had 15. I think the depth we have has made me raise it to 16. Won't be shocked if we go to 17. My 16.

DT - Wilfork, Haynesworth, G. Warren, M. Pryor and K. Love
DE - A Carter, J. Cunningham, S. Ellis, M. Anderson and E. Moore
LB(6) - J. Mayo, G. Guyton, D. Fletcher, B. Spikes, R. Ninkovich and the last spot down to T.White/Koutouvides.

Don't know what to make of the guys who aren't playing. But, the expression you can't make the club from the tub is probably going to apply here. We have good not great players whom you can't let go just because you're hoping someone else gets healthy. That's why I didn't put R. Brace, M. Wright and B. Deaderick on my roster. Hope we can put them on the PUP in case we have some injuries and we'll already have and in-house replacement for 6 weeks. Darryl Richard is the guy I'd hate to cut. Maybe he beats out K. Love. Doubt he makes it thru waivers to practice squad. Problem with keeping dl is that they don't help on special teams.

 

[patfanken]

Nice efforts by all in this thread. However the thing you leave with after reading through it, is that BB is going to have some VERY hard decisions to make, and there will be more than a few VERY good football players not making the final 53. And that's a GOOD thing. A VERY good thing.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Old Counting - 8-9 Linebackers

My categorization has 4-5 ILB's and 5 OLB's. with the OLB's being able to play DE as all Belichick OLB's have always been able to do.

ILB's (4-5 depending on health of fletcher and Spikes; 5 if both are healthy)
Mayo, Guyton, Spikes, Fletcher, White

OLB (4) Cunningham, Ninkovich, Moore, and Anderson
(with Murrell and M. Carter on the outside looking in)
The interesting thing is that, for me, Anderson has become almost a lock.
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I have us with 9-10 defensive backs depending on the LB count.
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So that leaves us with SEVEN defensive linemen, which seems right, given that the OLB's play DE.

Carter, Wilfork, Warren, Ellis, Haynsworth, and Pryor make up a strong DL.

Choose you binky for the NUMBER SEVEN DL, but absent two injuries that player won't play much. Obviously, there are lots of candidates. Love and Richard are the only ones who are healthy.

BELIEVE IT OR NOT, there is still room on the roster for an additional front seven player or two, depending on health issues.

I'm not sure why Anderson would be a lock yet.
My guess is that when the real bullets start flying we will see a DL that has 3 bigs and one DE/OLB type.
We have been playing 2 DE/OLB types so far, but my instinct is that this is a preseason thing to get looks at those guys because the big DEs can rotate in the DT spots. Then in sub we use 2 DE/OLB types, which appears to include Ninkovich.

So, we would have something like this:

Big DE Ellis (btw I can imagine why he would be on the roster if we planned on using 2 260lb DEs in the base) Wright if he's a go, Pryor, Richard, Deaderick. i execpt 2 plus a guy who can also play DT to make the team.

DT Wilfork, Haynesworth, Brace, Warren, Pryor, Richard, Deaderick, Love, Weston
I expect 5 here, including one who is also BIG DE (ie Pryor, Richard, Deaderick)

Weak DE Carter, Cunningham, Moore, Anderson, (Ninkovich in the mix on sub packages)

I don't know if there necessarily has to be 4 guys kept at this spot.

That gives us 2,5,3 which is 10 DLs, which is a lot. 3,5,4 seems like there may not be enough room, because we need spots for Mayo, Spikes, Ninkovich, Fletcher, Guyton and one more. We need 6 guys to have enough depth at 3 LB positions.

 

[Ring 6]

Just an aside, and certainly not to start trouble, but its simply amazing to me that after G Warren makes 1 tackle for a loss (and has one other time where he gets in the backfield and attempts to chase a QB and doesnt even get close) he goes from a guy who sucked last year and we didnt even want back to 'reborn' 'looking great' and a 'lock'.
That was one heck of a play I guess.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

As per the other thread, I now think that for health reasons Wright won't be on the team.

Yeah........ agreed. Sounds like the only thing he's a lock for is IR this year. Beyond that, I'm worried he'll never play again. Injury settlement coming.

 

[drew4008]

Am I the only one who wants to see Cunningham be the odd man out? I mean, obviously if he shows something big and promising, then the potential would be worth keeping him... but the guy hasn't shown nearly enough promise, especially this year.

If we're basing it purely on how they look right now, Cunningham doesn't deserve a spot on this team... I think most can agree on that.

 

[Ring 6]

Am I the only one who wants to see Cunningham be the odd man out? I mean, obviously if he shows something big and promising, then the potential would be worth keeping him... but the guy hasn't shown nearly enough promise, especially this year.

If we're basing it purely on how they look right now, Cunningham doesn't deserve a spot on this team... I think most can agree on that.

Where do you get that from?
What hasn't he done this year? He had a sack in the game he played, and made a number of other good plays, and he sat out game 2 just as many player sat out game 1.
Should Andre Carter be cut because he showed nothing in game 1?

He doesn't deserve a spot on the team? Really? The guy who started all of last season? Who exactly are you picking ahead of him?

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah........ agreed. Sounds like the only thing he's a lock for is IR this year. Beyond that, I'm worried he'll never play again. Injury settlement coming.

Hasn't Wright said he is fully recovered from the concussions?
Don't we not even know what his current injury is?
How do you write off a guys career for missing 2 weeks with an injury?

 

[drew4008]

Where do you get that from?
What hasn't he done this year? He had a sack in the game he played, and made a number of other good plays, and he sat out game 2 just as many player sat out game 1.
Should Andre Carter be cut because he showed nothing in game 1?

He doesn't deserve a spot on the team? Really? The guy who started all of last season? Who exactly are you picking ahead of him?

Andre Carter's definitely not a lock either. We've all just had so much hope for Cunningham, and I remember being more disappointed last year than impressed or stoked for the future. Although a lot of that has to do with our abysmal pass-rush schemes over the last ~5 years I'm sure.

I'm not entirely sure who is ahead of him... but I know there's a ton of talent in the front 7 right now (as evidenced by this thread). I just wouldn't be overly surprised if he was cut.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

DT Rotation

Vince Wilfork
Albert Haynesworth
Shaun Ellis
Gerard Warren
Myron Pryor


Rushers

Andre Carter
Mark Anderson
Jermaine Cunningham
Ninkovich
Moore


Those 5 DT's seem like locks to make the roster. I think its more likely that one of the rushers gets cut.

Kyle Love could squeeze onto the roster, and I think Mike Wright retires due to injuries.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

Am I the only one who wants to see Cunningham be the odd man out? I mean, obviously if he shows something big and promising, then the potential would be worth keeping him... but the guy hasn't shown nearly enough promise, especially this year.

If we're basing it purely on how they look right now, Cunningham doesn't deserve a spot on this team... I think most can agree on that.

Oddly enough, I kind of agree.

He just doesnt seem very competitive or aggressive. Always seems a step too late. Not very vocal.

I do think he could learn alot from Andre Carter though.

 

[Ring 6]

Andre Carter's definitely not a lock either. We've all just had so much hope for Cunningham, and I remember being more disappointed last year than impressed or stoked for the future. Although a lot of that has to do with our abysmal pass-rush schemes over the last ~5 years I'm sure.

I'm not entirely sure who is ahead of him... but I know there's a ton of talent in the front 7 right now (as evidenced by this thread). I just wouldn't be overly surprised if he was cut.

This totally contradicts saying

Cunningham doesn't deserve a spot on this team... I think most can agree on that.

Am I the only one who wants to see Cunningham be the odd man out?

but the guy hasn't shown nearly enough promise, especially this year.

Now you want him cut and don't know who would do a better job?
By the way, it would help to pay attention to games if you are going to criticize. OLBs split snaps last year. The majority of Cunninghams were in the base, not as a pass rusher. But hey, it sounds like you just would be happy to see him cut because you don't like the way he spells his name I guess.

 

[Ring 6]

Oddly enough, I kind of agree.

He just doesnt seem very competitive or aggressive. Always seems a step too late. Not very vocal.

I do think he could learn alot from Andre Carter though.

Right, because the major drawback in him as a rookie was that he wasn't vocal.
We want players based on playing football, not talking to the media.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Hasn't Wright said he is fully recovered from the concussions?
Don't we not even know what his current injury is?
How do you write off a guys career for missing 2 weeks with an injury?

Not saying it's over....... just saying that I'm worried is all. Reports were last year that his brain was still scrambled 6 weeks out from the injury. It was a obviously serious enough to end a season and with a concussion, that might be enough to end a career.

There's been speculation..... I share Mike's worry too.

Bob (Portland, OR) - Hey, Mike,How has Mike Wright's recovery gone since his concussion in November? Where do you see him fitting in this (semi-)new defense this season?

Reiss - Bob, I have some concerns for Wright. I didn't get a good vibe after listening to him in an early-camp interview, as something didn't seem right to me. I have hesitated from reading too much into it, but the longer he is out of practice, it makes me wonder about his health. Here's hoping he finds himself in a better place soon. I wonder how much the team can count on him right now, though.

 

[italia44]

:scared:AJ HAS ARRIVED.....

 

[Sciz]

After anyone says that Andre Carter is not a lock, I assume the right to not take their opinion seriously.

 

[Ring 6]

Not saying it's over....... just saying that I'm worried is all. Reports were last year that his brain was still scrambled 6 weeks out from the injury. It was a obviously serious enough to end a season and with a concussion, that might be enough to end a career.

There's been speculation..... I share Mike's worry too.

Didnt Wright himself sat that the concussion was fully recovered though?
This thread has basically pronounced him retired.
I'm not sure why he would report to camp, never practice and retire after saying he was fully recovered. I think there are large leaps to conclusions going on