Reactions to “The Dynasty”

[Boomer B]

How do you win when you can't force the Bills to punt?

Maybe the defense wouldn’t have been on the field as much and wouldn’t get gassed. You do realize a good offence will help the D, and vice versa?

 

[signbabybrady]

Yes things end. The problem here is Bill actively did the ending.

We don't know any of that ****. I hate how some fans make every little thing Bill does into a negative; even when he was still winning SBs.

 

[upstater1]

Yes things end. The problem here is Bill actively did the ending.

Patriots fans are beyond spoiled. It doesn't go on forever.

The players were old. The cap was maxed. It would have been absolutely hopeless to run it back out again, especially because of the draft capital we squandered with deflategate and trades for vets.

It was time to start again.

Other teams understand this. The 49ers. The Packers. Others.

 

[upstater1]

Like that game would have gone that way. Have we all forgotten the amount of times opposing teams **** the bed because they tried too hard thinking about the Pats offense was going to score no matter what?

Isaiah McKenzie, a guy who hasnt done a thing in the NFL since then, ran circles around our defenders. We couldn't stop him. If you honestly believe old crusty players would've done anything for us, you're way out there in lala land

 

[upstater1]

.

 

[upstater1]

Maybe the defense wouldn’t have been on the field as much and wouldn’t get gassed. You do realize a good offence will help the D, and vice versa?

LOL... I think you have PTSD from how bad our 6 old starters (who are no longer here) were back then. I was at the stadium and got to see McCourty who couldn't even track down an end around he had diagnosed. In the 1st quarter!! Against a scrub!! Hightower was stuck in molasses.

The game was over in the first half.

This was worse than the loss to Tennessee when the Patriots looked inept 2 years earlier.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Looking at the previews for the next 2 episodes it kind of validated how my thinking on Brady’s exit evolved a bit. The GOAT was never sticking around even if he got the contract he wanted.

He left because Bill is an a-hole and would never change…and Tom had enough of that crap. Hard to imagine a lot of employees would do something different if their boss treated them like that.

Yeah, people keep on missing the point saying "which cares if Bill was mean, it helped them win".

It was more than just being "mean", there was some legitimate resentment that Brady sensed and felt from Bill that went beyond regular hardass coaching. Belichick definitely started to target Brady, and there's reason why Welker and Moss even said that themselves.

Belichick was legitimately targeting Brady.

I don't think it was the '02 and '03 seasons that laid the foundation. Brady was still raw until that '03 SB. They were winning. According to Pioli, the winning was like a narcotic, and they all became addicted. So much, that "you would do everything and anything to stop the fear of losing. Anything."

I think it started to go south AFTER Spygate. By all accounts Bill changed. Pioli said Bill "distanced himself from those of us that were closest to him." By then Tom was a 3-time SB winner, w/ a perfect regular season, yet Moss, Welker, Stallworth, all say Bill was brutal with Tom.

I think that's why they spent so little time on '03-'04 SBs. The Hernandez episode leads to the JimmyG one. I agree with you, it was shocking to see Bill slobber all over Jimmy for a regular season win, yet act like a **** after a championship win.

Another pattern that's been exposed by the series. Belichick stopped talking to Kosar in CLE. He apparently stopped talking to Brady as well. We know he stopped talking to Mac this past season. I'm sorry but that's the most immature thing an adult can do, nvm a HC with his QB1. He'll obviously never change.

I figured 02 and 03 did lay the foundation subconsciously, because of how they won.

That 03 defense was one of the best of that decade, meanwhile the offense was 16th in scoring I believe. And in 2002, when their defense was worse, they missed the playoffs. So I wonder if Belichick still secretly viewed Brady as just being that 6th round pick who ran the system well but wasn't that physically talented and ultimately still benefitted from his defenses. 02 and 03 could have created that view in the back of his mind.

It would explain why he eventually stopped talking to Tom after spygate (MVP perfect season), and especially the credit he was getting by 2016 when Brady was annointed the GOAT. Belichick deep down felt that he made Brady, and was eager to push him (hence his surprising adulation of Garopollo).

That's my rational for it. It also align with the recent Wickersham quote attributed to Brady that stated Belichick "didn't know what he was missing"

I'm curious, why do you think he started to change after spygate?

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Also if Brady is on the team, they're probably going 13-4 instead of just 10-7. That Pats team played a lot of injured teams but Mac's inability to win a close game against decent teams that year (cowboys, bills pt 2, dolphins 2x, buccaneers, colts) hurt their record. Brady on that team wins the cowboys game, splits the Dolphins at minimum, and wins one of those other games and we get the number 1 seed.

That's not even including how the roster decisions turn out (for instance, not spending a 1st round pick on Mac).

 

[signbabybrady]

Yeah, people keep on missing the point saying "which cares if Bill was mean, it helped them win".

It was more than just being "mean", there was some legitimate resentment that Brady sensed and felt from Bill that went beyond regular hardass coaching. Belichick definitely started to target Brady, and there's reason why Welker and Moss even said that themselves.

Belichick was legitimately targeting Brady.


I figured 02 and 03 did lay the foundation subconsciously, because of how they won.

That 03 defense was one of the best of that decade, meanwhile the offense was 16th in scoring I believe. And in 2002, when their defense was worse, they missed the playoffs. So I wonder if Belichick still secretly viewed Brady as just being that 6th round pick who ran the system well but wasn't that physically talented and ultimately still benefitted from his defenses. 02 and 03 could have created that view in the back of his mind.

It would explain why he eventually stopped talking to Tom after spygate (MVP perfect season), and especially the credit he was getting by 2016 when Brady was annointed the GOAT. Belichick deep down felt that he made Brady, and was eager to push him (hence his surprising adulation of Garopollo).

That's my rational for it. It also align with the recent Wickersham quote attributed to Brady that stated Belichick "didn't know what he was missing"

I'm curious, why do you think he started to change after spygate?

Your timelines seem way off.

 

[TheRainMaker]

How do you win when you can't force the Bills to punt?

Pats would've locked up the #1 seed easily in 2021 as they were in position going into the last 4 games of the season with Mac at QB.

 

[upstater1]

Pats would've locked up the #1 seed easily in 2021 as they were in position going into the last 4 games of the season with Mac at QB.

You're still not going to get anywhere with that defense. I don't want to give anyone PTSD but imagine Chung, JC Jackson, Hightower, Bentley, McCourty and Van Noy in your head in 2021. I get a cold shiver up my spine just thinking about it, especially Hightower, Chung and McCourty. All well past their expired date.

 

[Steve102]

I just watch 7-8. I thought they did a phenomenal job making me feel like I felt during the Atlanta SB. Loved it.

At some point, Bill changed. I can't put a timeline on it, but there's a mini series to cover on that as well, because 2001 Bill isn't the same Bill as 2016 Bill, and '16 Bill isn't the same as 2023 Bill.

I will tell you what, though. E8 is a love letter to Tom Brady. It's fitting for what he did in the second half of the Atlanta game.

 

[signbabybrady]

I just watch 7-8. I thought they did a phenomenal job making me feel like I felt during the Atlanta SB. Loved it.

At some point, Bill changed. I can't put a timeline on it, but there's a mini series to cover on that as well, because 2001 Bill isn't the same Bill as 2016 Bill, and '16 Bill isn't the same as 2023 Bill.

I will tell you what, though. E8 is a love letter to Tom Brady. It's fitting for what he did in the second half of the Atlanta game.

The way they framed how Bill was treating Brady was exactly the same as the way Bruschi framed it (the line about wringing the towel out). I think that's going to change in the last two episodes there are already some pretty damning quotes but we'll see how the context plays. The media has been talking up the carnage that this documentary portrays and so far I don't think it's been as bad as described so these last 2 are probably going to be rough.

 

[Steve102]

The way they framed how Bill was treating Brady was exactly the same as the way Bruschi framed it (the line about wringing the towel out). I think that's going to change in the last two episodes there are already some pretty damning quotes but we'll see how the context plays. The media has been talking up the carnage that this documentary portrays and so far I don't think it's been as bad as described so these last 2 are probably going to be rough.

He really wrings the towel out hard. He knew what he had and how good they are, but you can see that guys are sick of it.

It really framed the Jimmy G situation well, IMO. Bill drafts Jimmy, if Brady does indeed become what everyone else had, then Bill's ahead of the curve. If Brady gets pissed off and he keeps winning and playing well, then that's a win. too. Brady took it to another level when Jimmy came on board. I think recency bias has a lot of us forgetting that.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I just rewatched the BB documentary "A Coaching Mastermind" and it was really interesting to see the dynamic between him and Kraft even in 2009. Seemed like Bill didn't like interacting with Kraft at all (personally, I don't blame him.)

Not really on this whole "**** on BB on his way out" stuff. Any "fan" who can't appreciate what he did for this organization might literally be both deaf and blind.

The scene in that when Kraft comes in to try to flex his "knowledge" by asking about the weather is hilarious. Belichick is clearly trying to blow him off and just keeps chewing his gum with the disdain just radiating off him.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Speaking of that Tuck Rule play, I was shocked they didn't call a penalty for one of the Raiders defensive players punting the ball after the "recovery". Shouldn't that be a 15-yard penalty? Not to mention Woodson hitting Brady in the head during the play itself. I had never noticed the Raider player punting the ball before.
Anyway, it all worked out pretty damn well, but just thought it was interesting.

Don't push the Woodson hitting Brady in the head thing because people can then validly counter with Vrabel hitting Warner in the head even worse in SB36 on the Law pick-6 play.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

And the loss for Junior Seau hurts perhaps most of all...

Well, Seau did refuse Rodney's pleas to switch out of the game-losing blitz.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Yup, the old Brady/Bledsoe War was a real thing on AOL. I still talk to a former Bledshole/co-worker who still insists that Drew could have won the SB in 2001.

Remind him of how Bledsoe almost gave the '01 AFCCG away in the second half including some mind-numbingly dumb throws.

 

[Boomer B]

Matt Light was on Zo’s radio show today and they discussed the Aaron Hernandez episode. Light said that Hernandez was a jerk and admitted to fighting him in the locker room. He said he was a chameleon, acting like a gangster ******* when it was just the players but when Kraft or Belichick were there he’d suck up to them. He also said that it’s true that Belichick had a longer leash for Hernandez.

 

[signbabybrady]

Remind him of how Bledsoe almost gave the '01 AFCCG away in the second half including some mind-numbingly dumb throws.

I like to remember this more. To each his own though.

PS no way they cut Patten.