Reactions to “The Dynasty”

[Ian]

Anyone watch this last night? I noticed online people were saying it dropped a day early, so we turned it on late and it was absolutely terrific. The first episode essentially covered the 2001 preseason, the Bledsoe injury and his thoughts behind it, as well as Brady’s rise within the locker room and through the season. Second episode covered from late in the year, how Belichick handled the Brady/Bledsoe situation, reflecting on Bill’s time in Cleveland and what happened with Kosar, as well as through the Raiders game. It was really well done and recommended if you haven’t seen it.

 

[festy1986]

It's a bit of a puff piece but it's incredible to see footage from 2001 remastered and in high definition.

 

[upstater1]

I watched the first 2 episodes. Two things stood out: the level of Kraft's involvement when it came to replacing Bledsoe, and the fact that Bledsoe took his concerns to Kraft. I was surprised that Kraft got that involved. In retrospect, Bledsoe was such a huge asset that it makes logical sense that Kraft would become that involved, and also that Bledsoe would feel like he'd been betrayed. It's logical unsurprising behavior that nonetheless left me surprised simply because Kraft was forthright that he didn't like the move to Brady, that Bledsoe went and complained to him, that Kraft then went to Belichick with his misgivings and told Belichick that his butt was on the line with the move. I don't want my star QB and owner doing these things, but I well understand that 99.9% of the owners would do exactly this.

Second thing: I'm not sure I trust the filmmakers to provide the proper narrative throughout this story going forward based on their take of the Kosar situation. They made it seem like Belichick had been through the replacing a star QB situation once already and made a mess of it. They made it seem as though Belichick was possibly doing the same thing again, which is what caused concern in New England, replacing a beloved QB, but the 1st time he tried it in Cleveland, he made the wrong decision. It was anything but that. Kosar was a failed QB who never went on to do anything in the league again. The move to Vinny T., which rehabilitated Vinny's career, yielded immediate dividends. They turned from losing seasons and went 9-4, into the playoffs, and even beat Parcells and the Patriots. How could anyone read this as anything but the right move?

If I'm being skeptical, the filmmakers are constructing a story arc of Belichick being involved 4 times in his career in an attempt to replace QBs, with mostly dubious results:

Kosar > Testaverde
Bledsoe > Brady
Brady > Garoppolo
Mac Jones > ?

Let the story tell itself, you don't need to characterize something as the opposite of what it actually was.

I will allow that Cleveland fans and the media, including the ownership of the Browns, hated the move to Testaverde because Kosar was their favorite son. In that respect, it shows what can happen when you have everyone against your move.

 

[festy1986]

I will say that's it's lame they are two episodes in and we aren't even into Superbowl 36 yet and episode 4 is apparently about spygate.

How are we gonna just gloss over multiple Superbowl runs in 1 episode.

 

[turkeyneck]

I watched the first 2 episodes. Two things stood out: the level of Kraft's involvement when it came to replacing Bledsoe, and the fact that Bledsoe took his concerns to Kraft. I was surprised that Kraft got that involved. In retrospect, Bledsoe was such a huge asset that it makes logical sense that Kraft would become that involved, and also that Bledsoe would feel like he'd been betrayed. It's logical unsurprising behavior that nonetheless left me surprised simply because Kraft was forthright that he didn't like the move to Brady, that Bledsoe went and complained to him, that Kraft then went to Belichick with his misgivings and told Belichick that his butt was on the line with the move. I don't want my star QB and owner doing these things, but I well understand that 99.9% of the owners would do exactly this.

Second thing: I'm not sure I trust the filmmakers to provide the proper narrative throughout this story going forward based on their take of the Kosar situation. They made it seem like Belichick had been through the replacing a star QB situation once already and made a mess of it. They made it seem as though Belichick was possibly doing the same thing again, which is what caused concern in New England, replacing a beloved QB, but the 1st time he tried it in Cleveland, he made the wrong decision. It was anything but that. Kosar was a failed QB who never went on to do anything in the league again. The move to Vinny T., which rehabilitated Vinny's career, yielded immediate dividends. They turned from losing seasons and went 9-4, into the playoffs, and even beat Parcells and the Patriots. How could anyone read this as anything but the right move?

If I'm being skeptical, the filmmakers are constructing a story arc of Belichick being involved 4 times in his career in an attempt to replace QBs, with mostly dubious results:

Kosar > Testaverde
Bledsoe > Brady
Brady > Garoppolo
Mac Jones > ?

Let the story tell itself, you don't need to characterize something as the opposite of what it actually was.

I will allow that Cleveland fans and the media, including the ownership of the Browns, hated the move to Testaverde because Kosar was their favorite son. In that respect, it shows what can happen when you have everyone against your move.

Good analysis, esp re the Kosar issue coloring the plot line.

 

[Steve102]

I watched the first 2 episodes. Two things stood out: the level of Kraft's involvement when it came to replacing Bledsoe, and the fact that Bledsoe took his concerns to Kraft. I was surprised that Kraft got that involved. In retrospect, Bledsoe was such a huge asset that it makes logical sense that Kraft would become that involved, and also that Bledsoe would feel like he'd been betrayed. It's logical unsurprising behavior that nonetheless left me surprised simply because Kraft was forthright that he didn't like the move to Brady, that Bledsoe went and complained to him, that Kraft then went to Belichick with his misgivings and told Belichick that his butt was on the line with the move. I don't want my star QB and owner doing these things, but I well understand that 99.9% of the owners would do exactly this.

Second thing: I'm not sure I trust the filmmakers to provide the proper narrative throughout this story going forward based on their take of the Kosar situation. They made it seem like Belichick had been through the replacing a star QB situation once already and made a mess of it. They made it seem as though Belichick was possibly doing the same thing again, which is what caused concern in New England, replacing a beloved QB, but the 1st time he tried it in Cleveland, he made the wrong decision. It was anything but that. Kosar was a failed QB who never went on to do anything in the league again. The move to Vinny T., which rehabilitated Vinny's career, yielded immediate dividends. They turned from losing seasons and went 9-4, into the playoffs, and even beat Parcells and the Patriots. How could anyone read this as anything but the right move?

If I'm being skeptical, the filmmakers are constructing a story arc of Belichick being involved 4 times in his career in an attempt to replace QBs, with mostly dubious results:

Kosar > Testaverde
Bledsoe > Brady
Brady > Garoppolo
Mac Jones > ?

Let the story tell itself, you don't need to characterize something as the opposite of what it actually was.

I will allow that Cleveland fans and the media, including the ownership of the Browns, hated the move to Testaverde because Kosar was their favorite son. In that respect, it shows what can happen when you have everyone against your move.

Do they try to say that the Kosar move was the wrong one? If so, then it's clear they want to paint Bill as the bad guy. Bill was 100% right on Kosar.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Wet blanket talking.....

TBH it sounds like stuff i've either read or heard about already. Quite frankly i'm dynasty'd out and don't really care to hear another angle on stories which have been exhausted to death.

Unless I get strong advice to watch it, i'd rather spend my time on Apple TV re-watching Ted Lasso.

 

[Family]

I watched the first 2 episodes. I'm not sure I trust the filmmakers to provide the proper narrative throughout this story going forward based on their take of the Kosar situation. They made it seem like Belichick had been through the replacing a star QB situation once already and made a mess of it. They made it seem as though Belichick was possibly doing the same thing again, which is what caused concern in New England, replacing a beloved QB, but the 1st time he tried it in Cleveland, he made the wrong decision. It was anything but that. Kosar was a failed QB who never went on to do anything in the league again. The move to Vinny T., which rehabilitated Vinny's career, yielded immediate dividends. They turned from losing seasons and went 9-4, into the playoffs, and even beat Parcells and the Patriots. How could anyone read this as anything but the right move?

Let the story tell itself, you don't need to characterize something as the opposite of what it actually was.

Yeah I'm out if it's saying Bill made the wrong QB move in Cleveland. The evidence is plain and clear.

If this is the case it's nothing more than a hit piece on Bill Bellichick to me. I've always been a fan of BB, but am not really happy with him now because of recent misteps. His ego did destroy him. but that doesn't erase the decades of greatness.

Bill doesn't deserve to be misrepresented in a documentary, so Apple can make their story better.

EDIT - Scratch not as definite, but still think it's a hit Bill piece.

 

[upstater1]

Do they try to say that the Kosar move was the wrong one? If so, then it's clear they want to paint Bill as the bad guy. Bill was 100% right on Kosar.

Not precisely, just that the whole situation devolved already once on him because of the decision to move on from Kosar. It made it seem as though Belichick already submarined one franchise with a QB move. No analysis of whether Kosar was better than Testaverde or vice versa.

There was literally ZERO about the playoff season in Cleveland. NOTHING. No mention of Testaverde at all.

 

[Family]

Not precisely, just that the whole situation devolved already once on him because of the decision to move on from Kosar. It made it seem as though Belichick already submarined one franchise with a QB move. No analysis of whether Kosar was better than Testaverde or vice versa.

Well the situation did devolve, a lot of which because of his handling of it. They should have said Bill was right both times.

I don't remember the Brady decision being so divided. I thought the media was on the side of "ride the winner".

 

[upstater1]

Well the situation did devolve, a lot of which because of his handling of it. They should have said Bill was right both times.

I don't remember the Brady decision being so divided. I thought the media was on the side of "ride the winner".

All the media voices presented so far, except for Bob Lobel, were pro-Drew. That includes Jackie MacMullan, Bob Ryan, Steve Burton, Cris Collinsworth, Wilbon and Kornheiser etc.

About the only national guy that was open to Brady was Dan Marino, who of course had played against Bledsoe and probably had a lot of knowledge about the dynamic.

Kraft himself felt let down by the decision to go with Brady when the Patriots lost to the Rams. Kraft was behind Drew very late into that '01 season. In fact, Kraft said he got a lot of heat from stakeholders (doesn't say who, sponsors? media? part owners? interests?). He literally said he was let down and disappointed in Belichick for choosing Brady.

The degree of Kraft's doubt in Belichick at this point is probably going to build into a story arc which explains why Kraft gave Belichick the benefit of the doubt in February of 2020.

 

[Steve102]

Well the situation did devolve, a lot of which because of his handling of it. They should have said Bill was right both times.

I don't remember the Brady decision being so divided. I thought the media was on the side of "ride the winner".

It was divided. People were very loyal to Drew.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

I haven't seen it, just the reviews/recaps. But hearing guys like Bruschi/Law describe young Brady really highlights one thing that I've always felt has been unfair in the Brady/BB debates...

People talk about it like they were each the same for 20 years. Brady absolutely, 100% was NOT the same player all 20 years. Young Brady was not the GOAT. Part of the legend of Tom Brady is his relentless pursuit of getting better. I get that BB doesn't have a great record without a starting QB named Tom Brady... but he proved he could win multiple super bowls without an all pro caliber QB. He'll just never get the credit for it in silly debates because that non all pro QB he won with happened to still be named Tom Brady.

 

[upstater1]

By the way, Belichick is laughing and smiling at these early press conferences so far in his first 2 years. Even when he's saying Brady is the permanent starter, there's immediate push back to his statement from the media. "That doesn't mean you can't change your mind," one off screen media member counters. Belichick laughs. 20 years later, he would shoot that type of question down, especially when it comes to a question as huge as having a QB controversy. Instead he starts laughing and can appreciate the push back.

I'll be interested to see when his demeanor changes through the episodes.

Did it all change during Spygate? Or before that?

 

[archstanton543]

This came out today Ian. How did you see it last night?

 

[Real fan 02]

I watched the first 2 episodes. Two things stood out: the level of Kraft's involvement when it came to replacing Bledsoe, and the fact that Bledsoe took his concerns to Kraft. I was surprised that Kraft got that involved. In retrospect, Bledsoe was such a huge asset that it makes logical sense that Kraft would become that involved, and also that Bledsoe would feel like he'd been betrayed. It's logical unsurprising behavior that nonetheless left me surprised simply because Kraft was forthright that he didn't like the move to Brady, that Bledsoe went and complained to him, that Kraft then went to Belichick with his misgivings and told Belichick that his butt was on the line with the move. I don't want my star QB and owner doing these things, but I well understand that 99.9% of the owners would do exactly this.

Second thing: I'm not sure I trust the filmmakers to provide the proper narrative throughout this story going forward based on their take of the Kosar situation. They made it seem like Belichick had been through the replacing a star QB situation once already and made a mess of it. They made it seem as though Belichick was possibly doing the same thing again, which is what caused concern in New England, replacing a beloved QB, but the 1st time he tried it in Cleveland, he made the wrong decision. It was anything but that. Kosar was a failed QB who never went on to do anything in the league again. The move to Vinny T., which rehabilitated Vinny's career, yielded immediate dividends. They turned from losing seasons and went 9-4, into the playoffs, and even beat Parcells and the Patriots. How could anyone read this as anything but the right move?

If I'm being skeptical, the filmmakers are constructing a story arc of Belichick being involved 4 times in his career in an attempt to replace QBs, with mostly dubious results:

Kosar > Testaverde
Bledsoe > Brady
Brady > Garoppolo
Mac Jones > ?

Let the story tell itself, you don't need to characterize something as the opposite of what it actually was.

I will allow that Cleveland fans and the media, including the ownership of the Browns, hated the move to Testaverde because Kosar was their favorite son. In that respect, it shows what can happen when you have everyone against your move.

Reportedly, 80 plus former players, executives, rivals, officials and NFL people were involved in the whole documentary. Ron Howard did his homework putting this together. Haven't seen it yet but fans and rivals have all said it is phenomenal. A documentary that brings us what really transpired in thier own words.

 

[archstanton543]

Reportedly, 80 plus former players, executives, rivals, officials and NFL people were involved in the whole documentary. Ron Howard did his homework putting this together. Haven't seen it yet but fans and rivals have all said it is phenomenal. A documentary that brings us what really transpired in thier own words.

I can't wait until Linda Evans and Joan Collins show up.

 

[RedSleevesPinkStripes]

Wet blanket talking.....

TBH it sounds like stuff i've either read or heard about already. Quite frankly i'm dynasty'd out and don't really care to hear another angle on stories which have been exhausted to death.

Unless I get strong advice to watch it, i'd rather spend my time on Apple TV re-watching Ted Lasso.

Also, For All Mankind.. also looking forward to more Severance

 

[upstater1]

Sorry to make yet another observation: it seems like the coaches prize one huge thing when it comes to the QB. The ability to not be scared of getting hit when the pass rush is coming at you. They held this against Bledsoe. If this is a big criteria, you can see why they appreciated Brady so much. You could understand then their coaching of Brady when he came back in 2009 as they coaxed him to step into the throw despite the pass rush, because Brady was bailing out. You can see it with their frustrations with Brady in 2019 because Brady was throwing the ball away almost immediately (because he had Marshall freakin' Newhouse as his LT!!!!). And it explains everything for why you'd rather have Zappe in there over Mac Jones.

If this is as big a criteria as Pioli and Ernie Adams make it out to be, the perfect QB for Belichick after Brady would be Justin Herbert, and certainly not Jimmy Garoppolo.

 

[upstater1]

This came out today Ian. How did you see it last night?

I saw it last night on Apple TV