Player Signing RapSheet: Agholor to Pats

[40yrpatsfan]

They're not running Gruden's offense in New England. And since when did Agholor become a premiere burner in the NFL?


That comparison is ridiculous. At their best, Gronk and Hernandez were probably the best TE duo in the history of the NFL. They combined for 16 TD's in 2012 and that was with them only playing in 21 of a possible 32 games. Their most productive season was 2011 when they combined for 2237 yards and 24 TD's (with the greatest quarterback of all-time). Henry and Smith with Newton will not even match half of that production.

One of their goals was to get young physical vets, not guys like Sanders on the verge or retirement - his ticket to NE expired years ago.

Also their mission wasn't to go get receivers better than Buffalo's, but to improve the team overall, which they accomplished.

 

[RIpats88]

They're not running Gruden's offense in New England. And since when did Agholor become a premiere burner in the NFL?


That comparison is ridiculous. At their best, Gronk and Hernandez were probably the best TE duo in the history of the NFL. They combined for 16 TD's in 2012 and that was with them only playing in 21 of a possible 32 games. Their most productive season was 2011 when they combined for 2237 yards and 24 TD's (with the greatest quarterback of all-time). Henry and Smith with Newton will not even match half of that production.

So they got 2 receiving tight ands and it's a ridiculous comparison to say they want to run a two tight end offense like they did with Gronk and Hernandez?

Where in my post did I say Henry/Smith had the same talent as Gronk/Hernandez?

 

[moosekill]

Want to know who had a lower catch % than Agholor in 2020?

Darius Slayton
Jerry Jeudy
AJ Green
Zach Ertz
Rob Gronkowski
DJ Chark
Michael Gallup
Chase Claypool
Marquez Valdes-Scantling
Jalen Reagor
O’Dell Beckham Jr.
Julian Edelman

I could quote a laundry list of irrelevant, poor receivers who had a higher catch % than Agholor in 2020.

You can’t just quote a single statistic out of context without understanding how it came to be and what it means, and use said statistic to draw some big picture conclusion about the quality of a player.

2020 NFL Receiving | Pro-Football-Reference.com

2020 NFL Receiving

www.pro-football-reference.com

75% of all statistics are made up anyways.

 

[JMC00]

1 of only 2 players in the top 6 in yards per catch and yards per target last season
77% of his receptions went for 1st downs (DK Metcalf was at 75%)
10 25+ yard catches (Evans, Godwin & AJ Brown had 9)

 

[Ring 6]

75% of all statistics are made up anyways.

Wanna know who had a higher yards per catch.

Valdez-scantling
End of list.

wanna know who had more yards per target?
Fuller
Higgins
Julio
Valdez-scantling
Jefferson
End of list.

You can have you guys who catch a high % because they can’t get open down the field. I’ll take the guy whose targets produce the most.

 

[Ollie]

They're not running Gruden's offense in New England. And since when did Agholor become a premiere burner in the NFL?

It might be only one year but he led the league in yards per attempt and was 6th in yards per catch so based on last year he is a premiere burner

 

[Ring 6]

55% catch rate is terrible. Butterfingers. Really overpaid. I think Meyers and Bourne should start.

.

You just don’t understand the game do you?
Do you think that every target is expected to have the same catch rate? Do you think that a guy who gets targeted on 0-5 yard passes (that get completed 75% of the time league wide) is supposed to have the same catch rate as a guy whose targets are 20+ yards downfield where about 35% are completed league wide?
Would you rather have a receiver who catches short passes for minimal yards or a downfield receiver?
Here I can answer it for you. They have a stat that combines the 2. Yards per target. Agholor ranked 6th in the NFL.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

You can have you guys who catch a high % because they can’t get open down the field. I’ll take the guy whose targets produce the most.

What nonsensical logic from the same person who immediately said Malcolm Butler was on drugs with zero proof, yet wants 17-sexual-allegation Watson here.

A WR who has a high catch % doesn't mean they can't get open. What kind of insane logic is that. Meyers has a high catch and he is perfect for this offense, he gets open and also catches most of his targets. The Pats are going to have another Bethel Johnson with Agholor, no thanks. Agholor is probably the worst signing of this free agent crop.

 

[Biffins]

Why do you care about the money? It isn't yours and it won't be meaningful in future years as the cap skyrockets from it's artificially depressed level it's at now.

First of all, any fan that understands football in the cap era should care about players salaries. We don’t care about coaches’ salaries as there’s no cap on that. Bob can hire as big a staff as he wants. Bigger the better. But player contracts are about getting good value as there’s a limit to boa much you can spend.

Secondly the cap just went down. You have no idea if it “skyrockets” in a few years. Not to mention this is just a 2 year contract, so the cap in a few years is irrelevant.

 

[Ring 6]

What nonsensical logic from the same person who immediately said Malcolm Butler was on drugs with zero proof, yet wants 17-sexual-allegation Watson here.

[/QUOTE]
Of course I never said either.

A WR who has a high catch % doesn't mean they can't get open. What kind of insane logic is that.

What to hell are you talking about. That isn’t even in the ballpark of what I said.

Meyers has a high catch and he is perfect for this offense, he gets open and also catches most of his targets. The Pats are going to have another Bethel Johnson with Agholor, no thanks. Agholor is probably the worst signing of this free agent crop.

Honestly the most encouraging think I can hear about a player is you don’t like them.

 

[rochrist]

I don't care about the money but the Krafts and Belichick do. When they evaluated the FA wide receiver market they were assigning a $ value to the available players. They brought in a lesser receiver (Agholor) at double the cost when there was a better receiver (Sanders) available. Maybe Sanders wanted no part of NE, I don't know, but if he had no problem playing with a total stiff like Newton then I would have much preferred the Patriots extended a contract offer to Sanders.

Comparing the two different receiver groups, Buffalo's is better, probably much better, and they definitely have the much better quarterback. That is going to be a huge advantage for Buffalo next season. Agholor is in his prime. And the cost DOESN'T MATTER. A huge part of this team has just gotten substantially younger, faster and more athletic and the money is beside the point. As I've pointed out again and again, the cap is going to go shooting up over the next 3 years. 2 or 3 years from now, these will be bargain basement deals and it doesn't matter if they aren't now because they had the money to spend.

Sanders is pretty close to washed. He just turned 34 and has a lot of miles on the tires. He's missed 21 games over the past four seasons.

 

[rochrist]

First of all, any fan that understands football in the cap era should care about players salaries. We don’t care about coaches’ salaries as there’s no cap on that. Bob can hire as big a staff as he wants. Bigger the better. But player contracts are about getting good value as there’s a limit to boa much you can spend.

Secondly the cap just went down. You have no idea if it “skyrockets” in a few years. Not to mention this is just a 2 year contract, so the cap in a few years is irrelevant.

Yes. I do. The league just signed two humungous tv deals with more to come. There is literally nobody in the football media who thinks the cap will go down or stay flat. The cap just went down because of a WORLDWIDE PANDEMIC.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Agholar is easily our best deep threat now even though it was an overpay. I don't think Harry has a role anymore and Byrd too may be obselete when Agholar is healthy.

I think we have to keep some version of these guys on all 3 downs: Henry, Smith, Meyers, Agholar, Bourne. I might trade Harry away as he's not going to have a role on this team.

.

 

[crawhammer]

One of their goals was to get young physical vets, not guys like Sanders on the verge or retirement - his ticket to NE expired years ago.

Also their mission wasn't to go get receivers better than Buffalo's, but to improve the team overall, which they accomplished.

Agholor is not a "physical vet." Is Bourne? I don't think so.

I agree the team is improved overall, however, if Belichick isn't trying to get better than Buffalo right now then he should be fired. It generally starts with winning your division. What Tampa Bay did last season is rare. By December Buffalo was toying with New England at Gillette, it was embarrassing. Buffalo is going to be very good again next season. Sanders improves their wide receiver group and their passing game was already among the best in the NFL. Josh Allen is going to be an MVP candidate, our quarterback is a stiff, so it's hard to imagine how the Patriots are going to make up 6 games from an offseason where they've left themselves way behind still at the most important position.

So they got 2 receiving tight ands and it's a ridiculous comparison to say they want to run a two tight end offense like they did with Gronk and Hernandez?

Where in my post did I say Henry/Smith had the same talent as Gronk/Hernandez?

You said "the Patriots are going back to the 2012 Gronk/Hernandez offense with Henry/Smith." At the very least it evokes comparison. Gronk and Hernandez were part of a very dynamic offense led by an all-time great quarterback in his prime. That's not at all what the Patriots are building toward. Honestly they're putting all these potentially good pieces around a washed up quarterback who was never that good of a passer anyway aside from one season when his TD% was unusually high, especially relative to his career percentage. I doubt Henry, Smith and Newton are going to remind anyone of Gronk, Hernandez and Brady.

It might be only one year but he led the league in yards per attempt and was 6th in yards per catch so based on last year he is a premiere burner

Yards per attempt? Isn't a QB stat? I'm pretty sure the receiver stat is yards per target where Agholor ranked 6th. He was 2nd in yards per reception. He won't be top 10 in either category in 2021, which is all that matters right now.

Sanders is pretty close to washed. He just turned 34 and has a lot of miles on the tires. He's missed 21 games over the past four seasons.

You got his age right at least. He actually played in 17 games in 2019 due to the trade from Denver to San Francisco. He only missed 2 games in New Orleans this past season. So in the last two seasons he missed a net of 1 game. Adding in 2018 and 2017, over the last four seasons he's missed 10 games, which is a lot less than 21. From 2012 through 2016 he missed 1 game in 5 seasons. He is going to finish the 2021 season with better numbers than Agholor.

 

[crawhammer]

I think we have to keep some version of these guys on all 3 downs: Henry, Smith, Meyers, Agholar, Bourne. I might trade Harry away as he's not going to have a role on this team.

You trading away Edelman too?

If they trade Harry, they're getting nothing in return. Seems improbable they cut bait on a 1st round draft pick after two seasons (one of which he missed half of with an injury).

 

[DropKickFlutie]

You trading away Edelman too?

If they trade Harry, they're getting nothing in return. Seems improbable they cut bait on a 1st round draft pick after two seasons (one of which he missed half of with an injury).

Edelman for me gets the Troy Brown / Bruschi treatment, he can stay as long as he wants even though he's definitely in the twilight of his career. So yes I'd keep Edelman and dump Harry while he still has tiny value in a trade. I wouldn't waste any snaps playing Harry over Meyers, Algholar, or Bourne.

 

[Lansdowne]

Agholar is easily our best deep threat now even though it was an overpay. I don't think Harry has a role anymore and Byrd too may be obselete when Agholar is healthy.

I think we have to keep some version of these guys on all 3 downs: Henry, Smith, Meyers, Agholar, Bourne. I might trade Harry away as he's not going to have a role on this team.

.

Byrd is obsolete in that he’s a free agent and isn’t getting re-signed.

 

[rochrist]

You're right. I missed that there were two entries for 19. He did miss 4 games in each of two seasons previous to that. And he is a small, 180 pound receiver who's caught more than 650 balls in the NFL. He's 15 pounds lighter than JE. If he isn't at the end of the road, he will be soon. Agholar is in his physical prime.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Byrd is obsolete in that he’s a free agent and isn’t getting re-signed.

Thanks forgot about that. So Harry, Vitale, Keene I'm not sure it makes sense to ever play them. You have Harris at RB then some combination of Henry, Smith, Meyers, Agholar, Bourne.

.

 

[RIpats88]

Agholor is not a "physical vet." Is Bourne? I don't think so.

I agree the team is improved overall, however, if Belichick isn't trying to get better than Buffalo right now then he should be fired. It generally starts with winning your division. What Tampa Bay did last season is rare. By December Buffalo was toying with New England at Gillette, it was embarrassing. Buffalo is going to be very good again next season. Sanders improves their wide receiver group and their passing game was already among the best in the NFL. Josh Allen is going to be an MVP candidate, our quarterback is a stiff, so it's hard to imagine how the Patriots are going to make up 6 games from an offseason where they've left themselves way behind still at the most important position.


You said "the Patriots are going back to the 2012 Gronk/Hernandez offense with Henry/Smith." At the very least it evokes comparison. Gronk and Hernandez were part of a very dynamic offense led by an all-time great quarterback in his prime. That's not at all what the Patriots are building toward. Honestly they're putting all these potentially good pieces around a washed up quarterback who was never that good of a passer anyway aside from one season when his TD% was unusually high, especially relative to his career percentage. I doubt Henry, Smith and Newton are going to remind anyone of Gronk, Hernandez and Brady.


Yards per attempt? Isn't a QB stat? I'm pretty sure the receiver stat is yards per target where Agholor ranked 6th. He was 2nd in yards per reception. He won't be top 10 in either category in 2021, which is all that matters right now.


You got his age right at least. He actually played in 17 games in 2019 due to the trade from Denver to San Francisco. He only missed 2 games in New Orleans this past season. So in the last two seasons he missed a net of 1 game. Adding in 2018 and 2017, over the last four seasons he's missed 10 games, which is a lot less than 21. From 2012 through 2016 he missed 1 game in 5 seasons. He is going to finish the 2021 season with better numbers than Agholor.

Now you are moving the goalposts saying Henry/Smith aren't going to have as good stats as Gronk/Hernandez.

You DONT bring in 2 good pass catching tight ends unless you intend to run a Tight end centric offense. Just admit you are reaching here to just try and be negative about any move the Patriots make.