Projected 53 man roster

[TheFlyingWedge]

#2 and 3 TE is shaping up to be an interesting position battle. O Shaugnessy (a blocking TE) has outperformed Allen in passing camp so far, by all accounts. I don't know if they are going want him as the #2 TE, but it doesn't bode well for Allen.

On a side topic, These former Colts player skill position guys never seem to stick: Reggie Wayne, Anthony Gonzales, Joseph Adai. Austin Collie is the only exception.

 

[supafly]

#2 and 3 TE is shaping up to be an interesting position battle. O Shaugnessy (a blocking TE) has outperformed Allen in passing camp so far, by all accounts. I don't know if they are going want him as the #2 TE, but it doesn't bode well for Allen.

On a side topic, These former Colts player skill position guys never seem to stick: Reggie Wayne, Anthony Gonzales, Joseph Adai. Austin Collie is the only exception.

I think the Austin Collie pickup was a move made from sheer desperation, and even then, he totaled 6 catches during his time here.

I'm not giving up on Allen yet, just due to a poor showing in OTAs alone. We'll have to see what his extended TC and preseason reps look like. I certainly wouldn't put a blocking TE who's on the bubble in front of him. O'Shaugnessy should make the club, but I think his role is very limited, at least on offense.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Am I the only one who thinks that this year's Practice Squad could have as much talent as some teams' Starters and at least make the Roster in many places?

 

[tasmlab]

#2 and 3 TE is shaping up to be an interesting position battle. O Shaugnessy (a blocking TE) has outperformed Allen in passing camp so far, by all accounts. I don't know if they are going want him as the #2 TE, but it doesn't bode well for Allen.

On a side topic, These former Colts player skill position guys never seem to stick: Reggie Wayne, Anthony Gonzales, Joseph Adai. Austin Collie is the only exception.

Poor Austin Collie. He had six receptions on a team that was playing Dobson and Thompkins as starters, who were both hurt.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

#2 and 3 TE is shaping up to be an interesting position battle. O Shaugnessy (a blocking TE) has outperformed Allen in passing camp so far, by all accounts. I don't know if they are going want him as the #2 TE, but it doesn't bode well for Allen.

On a side topic, These former Colts player skill position guys never seem to stick: Reggie Wayne, Anthony Gonzales, Joseph Adai. Austin Collie is the only exception.

I'm pretty sure Collie was a mid-season replacement at that.

 

[BTTA]

These roster projections make it difficult to track the impact on special teams. They still need to field 11 guys on, what, 6 individual special teams? Only three or four of those positions are clearly labeled in these rosters (kicker, holder, punter, snapper, a couple of coverage guys).

It would be an interesting thought exercise to start the roster build by creating the special teams units, then fill in the offense and defense to get to 53, and see who that leaves off of the offense and defense. That allows us to make deliberate decisions to weaken special teams in order to add players to the offenses and defense, and thus get a sense of that impact.

That requires much more knowledge of the positions on each of the special teams than I have. There must be names for each of the other positions on the special teams, right? What is the third position from the center called on punt coverage, for example?

 

[supafly]

There must be names for each of the other positions on the special teams, right? What is the third position from the center called on punt coverage, for example?

I've always considered them to be either specialists (punter, long snapper), gunners, or wedge blockers (some are slightly bigger, like McClellin vs. Bolden).

Is this not correct?

 

[mgteich]

Am I the only one who thinks that this year's Practice Squad could have as much talent as some teams' Starters and at least make the Roster in many places?

If they could make a roster elsewhere, someone will claim them off waivers or when they are put on the Practice Squad.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

If they could make a roster elsewhere, someone will claim them off waivers or when they are put on the Practice Squad.

Sometimes one has to allow a little literary license in a comment, especially in the off-season.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Am I the only one who thinks that this year's Practice Squad could have as much talent as some teams' Starters and at least make the Roster in many places?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

If they could make a roster elsewhere, someone will claim them off waivers or when they are put on the Practice Squad.

ObReminder: players can't be claimed off a practice squad.

 

[mgteich]

ObReminder: players can't be claimed off a practice squad.

???

Any player can be signed from our Practice Squad by another team, without compensation to us. Obviously, the player has to want to sign. The player would then be on the 53 man squad.

So, as I said, any player good enough to be on another team could easily be signed off our Practice Squad by another team.

If this weren't so, we wouldn't have a 53 man team, we'd have a 63 man team.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't have the numbers. Perhaps some else has them. However, as I recall we "usually" keep 9 OL's and relatively often have 8 or 10. We sometimes keep 10 when we have a rookie starter or an injured starter.

FACTORS (IMHO)

1) EXPERIENCE makes a big difference. This year we have five starters returning, plus our two best backup players (Fleming, Karras). So, our Game Day 7 are returning. More experience will likely improve the OL, along with the health of Gronkowksi. Sometimes we have a need to carry one or two developmental players. For example, I could see carrying McDermott as a 9th OL, knowing that he would be likely be inactive all year.

2) FLEXIBILITY is important. Both backups play at least 2 positions. as do some of the starters. Also note that our Game Day 7 is back. So, we are discussing what inactive players might be Game Day backups if there is an injury.

3) The FUTURE must be covered. We are fine at OT with our starters plus Fleming. However, Solder might leave after the season, so we need a top youngster at OT. The other four are here for at least a couple of years.

Garcia should be able to be the inactive OT who is an emergency OT for 2017. (We almost always keep 4 OT's with one being able to cover OG or blocking TE). If not, then we need another OT, either McDermott or Waddle.

With regard to OG/OC, we have one key youngster backup in Karras, and we know he can play. So, where is the emergency backup at OG/OC? Fleming is likely that player at OG (and blocking TE), and Mason or Thuney as center. Remember, we are discussing the 2 emergency injury option.

4) The expanded PRACTICE SQUAD can be used for the emergency backup at OG.
We have Douglas and Farris, and are likely to have 3 OG's on the Practice Squad as we did last year. If he have 3 capable of being the emergency guard, then the Practice Squad is the place to keep this backup. In addition, the staff has shown the willingness and ability to pick up an experienced OG during the season from the pool of the unemployed. Finding a backup as good as say Douglas isn't really that difficult, but we would also have 3 Practice Squad players to choose from.

BOTTOM LINE
We are well covered in our starters, Game Day backups, future OT, OG prospect, and 5th IOL (both Fleming and Practice Squad).

That being said, I am fine with the team picking up a veteran OG or OC, and am fine with keeping McDermott. As of now, it seems that there are better uses of this roster position (special teams, SS, and 3rd TE).

I think you are overrating the quality of the 6th and 7th OL that we were lucky enough to get through the year without needing.
I'm not sure we would feel so good about karras as the top iol backup if he actually has to play
fleming remember was cut in 2015 a rarity for a 4th rounder in year 2. And it wasn't exactly because we were loaded at OT.
I expect Garcia has a very good chance to be the active 3rd OT and expect as of now he is the solder replacement in 2018 so between backup and short yardage TE I expect him to get a lot of work this year. If Fleming is holding him back I will be worried.

 

[mgteich]

I think you are overrating the quality of the 6th and 7th OL that we were lucky enough to get through the year without needing.
I'm not sure we would feel so good about karras as the top iol backup if he actually has to play
fleming remember was cut in 2015 a rarity for a 4th rounder in year 2. And it wasn't exactly because we were loaded at OT.
I expect Garcia has a very good chance to be the active 3rd OT and expect as of now he is the solder replacement in 2018 so between backup and short yardage TE I expect him to get a lot of work this year. If Fleming is holding him back I will be worried.

I'll be more than happy if Garcia is ready to be the Game Day backup.

I'd also be fine if Karras is replaced by veteran acquisition.

 

[long distance]

These roster projections make it difficult to track the impact on special teams. They still need to field 11 guys on, what, 6 individual special teams? Only three or four of those positions are clearly labeled in these rosters (kicker, holder, punter, snapper, a couple of coverage guys).

It would be an interesting thought exercise to start the roster build by creating the special teams units, then fill in the offense and defense to get to 53, and see who that leaves off of the offense and defense. That allows us to make deliberate decisions to weaken special teams in order to add players to the offenses and defense, and thus get a sense of that impact.

That requires much more knowledge of the positions on each of the special teams than I have. There must be names for each of the other positions on the special teams, right? What is the third position from the center called on punt coverage, for example?

Good point. I actually use it to some extent in my roster build. Don't know all the positions since unfortunately it is not much written about . but - thanks to Patspropaganda - I know Pats used 6-8 core STers last season (playing all 4 “key“ units - kickoff, kickoff return, punt, punt return).

Here a link: Special Teams
(unfortunately they stopped this great ST reviews after week 7)
___

This is my list of 2017 core ST + main part-time contributors . based on last year and my current roster.

Slater, Ebner, JJ, Burkhead, O’Shaughnessy, Rivers, McClellin, E.Roberts/Bates + Develin, Chung, McCourty, Harmon

(top ST udfas if they make 53: Langi, D.Jones, D.Travis. J.Thompson, Likely)

You can add any of Freeny, Richards, Bolden that Pats might prefer over some guys Id like to keep..
___

Just for reference my current 53+ list based on some 2016 film (rookies) + spring OTA reports - that mean only so little..

QB (3) T.Brady, J.Garoppolo, J.Brissett
RB (4) M.Gillislee, R.Burkhead, J.White, D.Lewis/D.J.Foster
FB (1) J.Develin
WR (6) B.Cooks, J.Edelman, C.Hogan, M.Mitchell, D.Amendola, M.Slater
TE (3) R.Gronkowski, D.Allen, O'Shaughnessy
C (2) D.Andrews, T.Karras,
G (3) S.Mason, J.Thuney, Douglas (+C)
T (4) N.Solder, M.Cannon, A.Garcia, C.Fleming

DT (4) M.Brown, A.Branch, L.Guy, V.Valentine
DE (5) T.Flowers, K.Ealy, R.Ninkovich, D.Rivers, D.Wise,
LB(5) D.Hightower, K.VanNoy, E.Roberts, S.McClellin, H.Langi/T.Bates
CB (5) M.Butler, S.Gilmore, J.Jones, C.Jones, E.Rowe, D.Thomas/K.Moore
SS (2) P.Chung, N.Ebner, D.Travis/J.Thompson
FS (3) D.McCourty, D.Harmon, D.Jones

SP (3) S.Gostkowski, R.Allen, J.Cardona

Total players: 49+4/6(options)+2/4(hunch)

Note: one or three “surprise“ trades/cuts from the 49 can be “expected“ . as well as some “tactical“ decisions also in light of new IR rule (possibility of bringing two guys back) + PUP etc.

 

[Mike the Brit]

On a side topic, These former Colts player skill position guys never seem to stick: Reggie Wayne, Anthony Gonzales, Joseph Adai. Austin Collie is the only exception.

Griff Whalen didn't stay long either ...

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Only when they finally sank the Bismark. Up until then, it was touch and go.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

???

Any player can be signed from our Practice Squad by another team, without compensation to us. Obviously, the player has to want to sign. The player would then be on the 53 man squad.

So, as I said, any player good enough to be on another team could easily be signed off our Practice Squad by another team.

If this weren't so, we wouldn't have a 53 man team, we'd have a 63 man team.

Well, you know how we cheat...so, yeah, we probably have a 63 man team...five of the extra ten are in charge of filming from the sidelines with micro cameras in their helmets and the other five are on football deflation duty before every game. Belichick has always said that he wants our guys to be proficient in all five phases of the game, Offense, Defense, Special Teams, Filming and Deflating.

 

[Brandon_Cox]

I'd also be fine if Karras is replaced by veteran acquisition.

I'm curious why you feel that way. I realize he was only a 6th round pick, but when did that matter to BB? IIRC, he started the first game last year and played half of the second, when Shaq was out with a broken hand. He looked pretty solid for a rookie playing in his first game and a half. He's had a year of coaching under Dante. He can play center or either guard position so he's a valuable backup. His cap hit is minimal.

It's hard to know from the outside looking in, but the team seems pretty happy with him.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I'm curious why you feel that way. I realize he was only a 6th round pick, but when did that matter to BB? IIRC, he started the first game last year and played half of the second, when Shaq was out with a broken hand. He looked pretty solid for a rookie playing in his first game and a half. He's had a year of coaching under Dante. He can play center or either guard position so he's a valuable backup. His cap hit is minimal.

It's hard to know from the outside looking in, but the team seems pretty happy with him.

So include him as a success and what an extraordinary off-season 2016 was!

No first-round pick (boo!!!) and Cyrus Jones a very questionable selection, but, after that, Valentine, Thuney, Brissett, Mitchell, Roberts, Karras, Jonathan Jones and D.J. Foster all looking like they are (or will be) NFL players.

Whatever they're paying Caserio, he needs a raise.