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Prediction: The Pats' Pass Defense is About to Go From Terrible to Very Good

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Phaw, CHFF would never extrapolate data in the manner in which you suggest.

Predicting the Second Half of a NFL Season Using the First Half


(Im not acquiescing the point that the CHFF article is inherently flawed)

Quick breakdown (easy grading, guy becomes legit starter or significant rotational/backup player):

2000-2005
Randall
Brady
Pass
Seymour
Light
Graham
Branch
Green
Givens
Warren
Wilson
Samuel
Koppen
Banta-Cain
Wilifork
Watson
Mankins
Hobbs
Kaczur
Sanders
Cassel


2006-2010
Maroney
Gostkowski
Meriweather
Mayo
Wilhite
Slater
Chung
Vollmer
Edelman
McCourty
Gronkowski
Cunningham (probably doesn't belong, but I'll put him in anyway)
Spikes
Hernandez
Mesko
Deaderick


I put 2010 in bold. Take it out of the 2006-2010 group, and you've Essentially only got Mayo, Vollmer and a trio of ST guys (Edelman, Slater, Gostkowski) as the true "success" picks. The 2006-2009 drafts are what this Patriots team has been trying to overcome since 2008-2009, as the weakness of those drafts has impacted the team due to the absence of great players replacing former greats.

What it really boils down to, IMO, is that the Patriots drafting dry spell (2006-2009) isnt enough to justify the "Patriots can't draft" arguments, but it is enough to serve as a big part of the explanation as to why the Patriots have fallen on hard times defensively.
 
What it really boils down to, IMO, is that the Patriots drafting dry spell (2006-2009) isnt enough to justify the "Patriots can't draft" arguments, but it is enough to serve as a big part of the explanation as to why the Patriots have fallen on hard times defensively.

But wouldnt the very nature of picking in the draft (and second guessing who can turn that corner and make it in the NFL) dictate that teams will have statistical groupings like what we see with the Patriots?

And unless I am mistaken, the Patriots have the winningest record in football over the last decade, making it consistently further into the playoffs than any other team.

What is your opinion that consistently drafting late in every round is having a tangible negative effect on our drafts overall?
 
But wouldnt the very nature of picking in the draft (and second guessing who can turn that corner and make it in the NFL) dictate that teams will have statistical groupings like what we see with the Patriots?

Absolutely. However, if you're going to ignore that with regards to the first half of the decade, you have to ignore it with regards to the second half of the decade.

And unless I am mistaken, the Patriots have the winningest record in football over the last decade, making it consistently further into the playoffs than any other team.

What is your opinion that consistently drafting late in every round is having a tangible negative effect on our drafts overall?

It's a significant drag on the ability of top teams to stay competitive. However, there are other factors involved:

  1. QB-centric league means having the QB covers for a lot of weaknesses
  2. Free agency and trades can dilute the impact of low drafting
  3. Consistently poor drafting teams above (i.e. Raiders) means good players still fall through the cracks
  4. Trade downs lead to better/more picks moving forward, ameliorating the low picks problem

Belichick has been about as good as anyone when it comes to the draft, but that 4 year down period came at just the wrong time, and his inability to cover it with FA signings and/or trades has made the problem even more glaring.
 
^What's your take on the 2009 draft? was it the right move trading out of the first round?
 
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I think the number of times BB traded down taking more but lower picks where he could makes it more difficult to draft real athletic specimens. However BB has not really been much interested in my view in drafting real athletic studs....preferring to take more guys and glean through them for guys that can play multiple positions and learn his schemes.

IMO the secondary has suffered for it but only to the extent that he really does not have at least one or maybe two real super athlete back there and he probably needed to get himself at least one more edge rusher that he does not have.
 
^What's your take on the 2009 draft?

Initially promising, but extremely disappointing in the end. They addressed all the 'major' positions of need that year, but they often chose the guy who ended up being the wrong player in the end.

was it the right move trading out of the first round?

The trade down was fine. What was done with the picks was the problem.

I talked a little about this in another thread, but imagine that draft going:

Byrd instead of Chung
Sean Smith instead of Butler
Barwin/McCoy instead of Brace
Vollmer
Wallace instead of Tate

Those were all very reasonable alternatives, and the second round options were much discussed around here in the draft forum. That would have led to a potential haul of

Byrd
S. Smith
Barwin/McCoy
Vollmer
Wallace
Pryor
Edelman

They didn't need to hit all those in order to have made that an acceptable draft, but missing on so many of them in such a small span (4 misses and the "meh" that is Chung in 2 rounds) makes it one that's extremely disappointing, IMO.
 
I would love to be a fly on the wall just to see how they value players. I am convinced that BB values things higher than the players physical attributes or physical talent if you will in favor of what I would think would be some form of intangibles combined with his penchant for multi-taskers and just does it over and over again....to a fault, in the secondary.
 
I still don't understand why the pats parted ways with brandon meriweather.

I know he was a headache, but it feels like his physical presence is missed in the secondary.
 
I still don't understand why the pats parted ways with brandon meriweather.

I'd guess it's because he can't get into the right position and tackles his own team mates?

...Something he still does, just now in warm ups too.
 
I still don't understand why the pats parted ways with brandon meriweather.

I know he was a headache, but it feels like his physical presence is missed in the secondary.

I am not necessarily 'surprised' that they got rid of Meriweather, but I am surprised that they did it when they did, along with some of the other moves at safety. Too much of a gamble/housecleaning at one time in my opinion.

I am also surprised that a 2x probowler in his first 3 starting seasons who was a 1st round pick did not equate to at least a 4th/5th/6th round draft pick too, and resulted in an all-out cut.
 
Initially promising, but extremely disappointing in the end. They addressed all the 'major' positions of need that year, but they often chose the guy who ended up being the wrong player in the end.



The trade down was fine. What was done with the picks was the problem.

I talked a little about this in another thread, but imagine that draft going:

Byrd instead of Chung
Sean Smith instead of Butler
Barwin/McCoy instead of Brace
Vollmer
Wallace instead of Tate

Those were all very reasonable alternatives, and the second round options were much discussed around here in the draft forum. That would have led to a potential haul of

Byrd
S. Smith
Barwin/McCoy
Vollmer
Wallace
Pryor
Edelman

They didn't need to hit all those in order to have made that an acceptable draft, but missing on so many of them in such a small span (4 misses and the "meh" that is Chung in 2 rounds) makes it one that's extremely disappointing, IMO.

All this is true, but I reject any Woulda-Shoulda-Coulda evaluations so long after the draft class was anounced. The combination of Pats Nation binkies in Barwin, JJ Watt and Jared Crick is a tempting target for Woulda-Shoulda-Coulda. But how can you knock Gronkowski, Solder, Chandler or Hightower as picks for this team?
 
I am not necessarily 'surprised' that they got rid of Meriweather, but I am surprised that they did it when they did, along with some of the other moves at safety. Too much of a gamble/housecleaning at one time in my opinion.

I am also surprised that a 2x probowler in his first 3 starting seasons who was a 1st round pick did not equate to at least a 4th/5th/6th round draft pick too, and resulted in an all-out cut.

Well the Patriots reportedly tried to trade him during the preseason, but they didn't get a single offer (not even a 7th rounder).

Also, if you cut a player, you will not get a compensatory pick regardless of his draft status. Cut players do not count as "players lost" even if they sign with another team.
 
I am not necessarily 'surprised' that they got rid of Meriweather, but I am surprised that they did it when they did, along with some of the other moves at safety. Too much of a gamble/housecleaning at one time in my opinion.

I am also surprised that a 2x probowler in his first 3 starting seasons who was a 1st round pick did not equate to at least a 4th/5th/6th round draft pick too, and resulted in an all-out cut.

In the end, they should have kept him since the players that replaced him sucked horribly. Same with Sanders.
 
All this is true, but I reject any Woulda-Shoulda-Coulda evaluations so long after the draft class was anounced. The combination of Pats Nation binkies in Barwin, JJ Watt and Jared Crick is a tempting target for Woulda-Shoulda-Coulda. But how can you knock Gronkowski, Solder, Chandler or Hightower as picks for this team?

You're welcome to your opinion. On the other hand, many NFL people have gone on record saying things like "You can't really evaluate a draft class for about 3 years". Since we can't evaluate the drafts before they're held, and we can't evaluate the final success of the draft until enough time has passed to give the players a fair shake, I reject your rejection.
 
So far through 8 games the Pats' overall defense has been somewhere between mediocre to respectable, ranking 12th in points allowed (averaging 21.3 PPG) and 23rd in total yardage . The run defense has been outstanding, ranking first in least YPA (3.5) and 8th in YPG (88.6). And they rank 3rd in the NFL (and 1st in the AFC) with 20 takeaways (11 fumble recoveries, 9 INTs).

The pass defense has been another story. The Pats rank 28th in passing YPG (281), and in yards per attempt (8.0). They rank 27th in opposing QB rating, allowing an average rating of 96.8. The 17 passing TDs which they've given up is tied for 2nd worst in the league. And they rank 23rd in opponent 3rd down conversion rate (43%). By all measures our secondary play has been poor. And what we've witnessed is commensurate with what the numbers suggest.

I think that's about to change. Recent history has shown that teams can go from having poor pass defenses to very good ones in a very short time. The 2010 San Francisco 49ers and Seattle Seahawks were among the worst pass defenses in the league, and the 2010 Houston Texans set records for the most passing yardage allowed. All 3 teams were markedly better in 2011, and are among the best in the league this year. And I think there's a good chance that we're about to be the next team to make that switch.

There are 4 reasons why I think things are about to change:

1. Upgrades in personnel. The Pats' secondary has been paper thin. Pat Chung and Steve Gregory have been out. Ras-I Dowling was banged up before going on IR. Kyle Arrington has been hobbled. Things seem to finally be improving. Gregory was almost back for the Rams game, so he should be back after the bye week. Hopefully Chung will be back, and some time off will benefit Arrington. Alfonzo Dennard has just begun to emerge over the past few weeks as a bona fide starting CB. And the acquisition of Aqib Talib immediately upgrades our personnel at CB by a considerable margin.

2. Devin McCourty as the deep FS. McCourty has played FS for the past 2 games, and BB has noted that the deep protection was improved from previous weeks. The Pats haven't had a FS with deep cover skills since Brandon Meriweather was cut, and Meriweather lacked the discipline and selflessness to play that role well. McCourty in man coverage is a liability. McCourty patrolling the deep part of the field with everything in front of him and making sure nothing gets by could be an Earl Thomas kind of anchor for the secondary, allowing the CBs to play more man-press and the front 7 to attack more aggressively. It may take a few games for McCourty to make the adjustment, but by the end of the season I think we'll see a huge difference in big pass plays and long 3rd down completions. I personally think that BB's comments plus the acquisition of Aqib Talib is a clear sign that DMac will stay at FS. The position is too important, and no one else has the skills to handle it.

3. Coherence in the secondary. For years now it seems like the secondary has lacked cohesiveness, coherence and communication. Having DMac as the deep safety and captain of the secondary should help. He will play the same kind of role that Jerod Mayo plays for the front 7. In addition, having 2 CBs who are suited to playing press-man coverage will allow the secondary to have a coherent approach for the first time in a long time. It seems like the secondary has been too busy applying band-aids to put 4-5 guys on the field to have any consistency or coherence. Remember last year when the safeties seemed to change every quarter? With 2 outside CBs who can play press-man and a solid deep cover FS, the coaching staff can mix and match with the other parts, using Chung, Wilson, Gregory, Arrington and Cole as the situation dictates, without giving up basic defensive coherence or cohesion.

4. Synergy with the front 7. Houston's secondary improved from 2010 to 2011 in part because of the acquisition of CB Jonathan Joseph, who provided a huge upgrade. But without a doubt the addition of JJ Watt and Brooks Reed and the return of Connor Barwin made at least as much difference. It's hard to play an aggressive defense when the secondary is getting strafed, and it's hard for any secondary to hold up in the NFL when there's no pressure on opposing QBs. If the deep safety coverage is reliable it will allow the CBs to play press-man and bump opposing receivers off their routes, knowing that someone has their back if their man gets past them. That allows the front 7 to attack more aggressively, generate more pressure, and create more disruption.

Theoretically, it should all come together. Of course, it never works exactly the way it should in theory. I'm sure there will be some bumps on the way. But I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that we'll see significant improvement in the pass defense over the next 8 games, so that by the end of the regular season it is almost unrecognizable from what we saw against Seattle, Baltimore, or the Jets earlier this season. I certainly hope so. I'm not worried about making it to the playoffs with what we've had up to now, but making it through without a significantly improved pass defense would have required an awful lot of luck.

It's a little early to be bumping this, but at halftime of the Indy game things already seem a bit clearer:

1. The Pats seem to be sticking with Devin McCourty at FS, and he seems to be settling in nicely. He's made at least one big play to stop a drive, and shows flashes of safety help that we haven't seen in a long while. Patrick Chung appears to be a healthy scratch, so it seems that the coaching staff has pretty much given up on Chung and is committed to sticking with McCourty at FS, as suggested in the OP.

2. Aqib Talib has a nice pick 6 interception and has made several other fine plays. Talib at CB and McCourty at FS give us half of a damn fine starting secondary. I hope this kid can keep clean and that the Pats can extend him. He has nice ball skills, and he has picked things up very quickly and reportedly has shown a great work ethic.

3. Kyle Arrington has re-affirmed that he has no business at outside CB, and the coaching staff has quickly pulled him for Alfonzo Dennard, who has played reasonably well. I don't know why the heck they started Arrington in the first place. BB reportedly loves his run support ability, but he is just a sieve in coverage and he has regressed terribly. Dennard has made a couple of nice plays.

4. There seems to be a bit more aggressiveness and attacking on the part of the defense. This could be coincidental, but it's nice to see.

We are clearly at least 1 CB and perhaps another safety short of where we would like to be personnel wise. But overall, the secondary play seems somewhat improved. Andrew Luck has been held to 55% completion rate and a 69.8% QBR so far.

I wasn't expecting miracles in Talib's first game and there's a lot of work to be done, but I'm mildly encouraged so far compared with what has come before.
 
2 pick six's. I'm going further out on that limb ... our pass defense is getting better.

Keep McCourty at FS, keep Talib and Dennard at outside CB. Please God don't put Arrington and Chung in pass coverage. And keep being aggressive. Some mistakes will be made, but more good things will happen than bad, and things will get better.
 
Well, so far so good. The pass coverage was improved in the first half. Not great but much better. 2nd half I didn't even recognize this defense. Too good to be true. Hopefully I'll wake up tomorrow to it really happened. Kudos to the front 7 as well. It's all coming together. Btw that was one of the worst 300 yard games I've ever seen by a QB.
 
I usually look for the plus sides of things, but confronted with two pick sixes in a game, I have to say Dennard and Talib sure did make the most out of bad decisions on Luck's part. These weren't acrobatic feats and they weren't brilliant field-vision moves on the part of the DBs... they were the result of pressure and desperation.

Now that said... when was the last time a Pats fan had to analyze exactly how the two pick sixes happened? When was the last time a Pats fan said "meh, it was because the front 7 got good pressure all game..."

The weak link is indeed getting stronger... there was a time when teams would try to give us those gifts and we'd drop them routinely. Life feels good. Let's play that team some more.
 
The thing I liked is that the coverage was very competitive and they forced a lot of incompletions. Even when they caught the ball, every throw was tightly contested. I don't remember the last time they had anything even close to 11 PDs in one game.
 
True dat, but would love to see the passing yards against us at 200 once in a while... and maybe total points against under 20? I mean, before we decide we're now an elite defense
 
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