Perspective - The art of getting over yourself. ;)

[patfanken]

We had a bit of a storm last month in a very active initial FA period if you count the 3 trades we made. Now we are in the lag time before we get active again in the run up to the draft. But it got me to thinking about this coming team's identity as we add about 20 new guys to those who survived last season's grind.

Think about this perspective. Just 2 seasons ago we were entering a season with virtually an entirely new CB group. Malcom Butler was coming off a great play in the superbowl, but hardly a stellar season. His main accomplishment had been to have made the squad as the longest shot of the UDFA's . But don't foget we lost our top THREE CB's off that 2014 squad and din't seem to do much to replace what we had.

At this time of that season, our depth chart looked like this. Not only were our top 3 CB's Ryan, Butler and Coleman, they ended up being our top 3 for pretty much the entire season, as well as all of our depth. Whatever flexibilty we managed with our secondary was accomplished with our Safeties. Anyone even know the names of our other CB's? That is how bare the cupboard was that season. And yet by the end of it, Butler had turned into a very good CB, Ryan in a solid #2, and Coleman into a capabable slot man, and we road that injury plagued season and CB questions into within a 2 point conversoin of ANOTHER af superbowl appearance.

Now lets try and grab that perspective by fast forwarding a couple of seasons and look what we are looking at in our CB room so far. We get to start the season with a an one of the better CB's skill sets in the league, plus, even though we might not be thrilled with it, 2 young guys in Jones and Jones who have fewer questions with their talent than Butler and Ryan had before the 2015 season. As well as another bigger CB who played increasingly better as the season went on in Rowe

So just counting those 4 guys we have as good a CB group starting out as we've had in the last few years. Now lets add the likelihood we add at least one of these 2 guys to the mix. Malcolm Butler, who was a top 10 CB last season, OR Jason McCourty who has been a top 15 CB for several recent years. THAT my friends is truly an embarassment of riches compared to most years we've seen even in the best defenses of the BB era.

It is the kind of group that can survive the occasional injury. It is the kind of group that can really give your defense the kind of matchup flexibility that can stress out opposing offenses and give our D the time it needs to develoop the pass rush we lost this off season.

I think the mediots will have a field day writing about Brady's offensive weapons this season, but I think the REAL story of this year's team is going to be just how impressive this defense is going to be when you think about the talent we added and the additional year of experience we now have from guys like Grissom, Roberts, Van Noy, McClellin, and Flowers. We really could see Patricia being allowed to finally let his creativity flower this season.

Now if we could grab some high draft picks with our current draft assets we could really make a killing not only in FA area of this off season but in the draft as well. Think about it. If the Pats trade Butler for the #32, and JG for #12 and 52 (plus next year's 2nd), and then signed Jason McCourty, They would end up with the deepest 2ndary in the league along WITH 3 picks in the top 50 and at least one top pass rushing propsect that fills a desperate need.

This is a realistic future that really could cause the rest of the league to just concede 2017 to the Pats and just move on to the next season. But unfortunately the purpose of this thread was to keep this off season in "perspective", and not letting our speculation run away from reality.

That is something that is getting to be increasingly difficult as BB works his magic this off season and teams allow us even the possibilitity to acquire guys like JMcCourty.

 

[jimnance]

We had a bit of a storm last month in a very active initial FA period if you count the 3 trades we made. Now we are in the lag time before we get active again in the run up to the draft. But it got me to thinking about this coming team's identity as we add about 20 new guys to those who survived last season's grind.

Think about this perspective. Just 2 seasons ago we were entering a season with virtually an entirely new CB group. Malcom Butler was coming off a great play in the superbowl, but hardly a stellar season. His main accomplishment had been to have made the squad as the longest shot of the UDFA's . But don't foget we lost our top THREE CB's off that 2014 squad and din't seem to do much to replace what we had.

At this time of that season, our depth chart looked like this. Not only were our top 3 CB's Ryan, Butler and Coleman, they ended up being our top 3 for pretty much the entire season, as well as all of our depth. Whatever flexibilty we managed with our secondary was accomplished with our Safeties. Anyone even know the names of our other CB's? That is how bare the cupboard was that season. And yet by the end of it, Butler had turned into a very good CB, Ryan in a solid #2, and Coleman into a capabable slot man, and we road that injury plagued season and CB questions into within a 2 point conversoin of ANOTHER af superbowl appearance.

Now lets try and grab that perspective by fast forwarding a couple of seasons and look what we are looking at in our CB room so far. We get to start the season with a an one of the better CB's skill sets in the league, plus, even though we might not be thrilled with it, 2 young guys in Jones and Jones who have fewer questions with their talent than Butler and Ryan had before the 2015 season. As well as another bigger CB who played increasingly better as the season went on in Rowe

So just counting those 4 guys we have as good a CB group starting out as we've had in the last few years. Now lets add the likelihood we add at least one of these 2 guys to the mix. Malcolm Butler, who was a top 10 CB last season, OR Jason McCourty who has been a top 15 CB for several recent years. THAT my friends is truly an embarassment of riches compared to most years we've seen even in the best defenses of the BB era.

It is the kind of group that can survive the occasional injury. It is the kind of group that can really give your defense the kind of matchup flexibility that can stress out opposing offenses and give our D the time it needs to develoop the pass rush we lost this off season.

I think the mediots will have a field day writing about Brady's offensive weapons this season, but I think the REAL story of this year's team is going to be just how impressive this defense is going to be when you think about the talent we added and the additional year of experience we now have from guys like Grissom, Roberts, Van Noy, McClellin, and Flowers. We really could see Patricia being allowed to finally let his creativity flower this season.

Now if we could grab some high draft picks with our current draft assets we could really make a killing not only in FA area of this off season but in the draft as well. Think about it. If the Pats trade Butler for the #32, and JG for #12 and 52 (plus next year's 2nd), and then signed Jason McCourty, They would end up with the deepest 2ndary in the league along WITH 3 picks in the top 50 and at least one top pass rushing propsect that fills a desperate need.

This is a realistic future that really could cause the rest of the league to just concede 2017 to the Pats and just move on to the next season. But unfortunately the purpose of this thread was to keep this off season in "perspective", and not letting our speculation run away from reality.

That is something that is getting to be increasingly difficult as BB works his magic this off season and teams allow us even the possibilitity to acquire guys like JMcCourty.

As the team stands right now,it's the best team in the NFL and better than the team that just won the SB. On paper,of course. Part of that is adding Gronk,part is the great additions.
But we need to keep Butler. People seem to forget, in 2014, the consensus among Patriots players, including Revis, was that Butler was the best cb on the team. Brady repeatedly said, Butler gave him a harder time in practice than anyone else and picked him off far more than anyone else.
Yes,that's just practice. But he was excellent on the field when given the chance.
When did the defense start to turn around in the 2014 SB? When BB benched Browner in favor of Butler. Malcolm had several outstanding huge plays late in that game, prior to THE play.
Yet many here still underestimate him.
Anyway, all the Pats need to add to potentially become one of the all-time greatest NFL teams in 2017 is another decent edge-rusher, keep Butler and a power running back. All 3 very doable.
We should all be licking our chops. Forget about 2007. This team will be better. Hell,LAST year's team was better than 2007.

 

[Thelonious]

Nothing to do but agree. Barring truly off-the-charts misfortune with injury, this team should be very good or better at all positions, in all units. Because of BB's ... peculiar ... manner at times (I think he enjoys playing it up sometimes as much as we enjoy watching him do so.), it's easy to view him through the lens of caricature, but if you study what's going on behind the persona, he is just far better at doing his job(s) than others who work at the same tasks. It isn't even close.

 

[supafly]

When did the defense start to turn around in the 2014 SB? When BB benched Browner in favor of Butler.

Pretty sure it was Arrington who was benched, and that move allowed Browner to handle the much taller WR Chris Matthews, who had been torching us.

As we know, it was Browner's physicality on the goal line which jammed the WR and didn't allow the pick play to occur. That, in turn, gave Malcolm Butler his free release on jumping the route (to some degree), and the rest is history.

 

[Soliel]

Nothing to do but agree. Barring truly off-the-charts misfortune with injury, this team should be very good or better at all positions, in all units. Because of BB's ... peculiar ... manner at times (I think he enjoys playing it up sometimes as much as we enjoy watching him do so.), it's easy to view him through the lens of caricature, but if you study what's going on behind the persona, he is just far better at doing his job(s) than others who work at the same tasks. It isn't even close.

Yea. I saw one last year. Press conference and bb kept saying: " seattle, were getting ready for seattle". I thought it was hillarious.

The additions made this time seem to make several areas better. I cant wait to see and i wont make any predictions yet until i see em in pte season...i mean other than the pats will obviously win the superbowl.. I just cant tell how it will jell at first

 

[DarrylS]

Always think it is folly to judge how good this team will be in March/April.. as much as I like and agree with what the Pats have done, you never know.. we had high hopes for Joey Galloway and he pooped the bed. BB always describes a good team as hard working, will these guys fit that mold??

The more recent focus on the d backfield is refreshing and reflects the changing coaching philosophy of BB..

The team you see right now it probably not the team you will see in early September.. add JMcCourty and 1st and 2nd pick.. take away Garapolo and Butler.. Nick Mangold is still out there as are a few others.

 

[BTTA]

Yes, there is now an embarrassment of riches at two positions that in the past were lower priorities: CB and WR.
And a quick twitch pass rusher or two would be nice.
The OL is the one position where a single major injury could wreak havoc with entire game plans. I want another good OT, unless the youngsters on the roster now are better than we all think.
I know that's a reflection of Patriot Fan Entitlement, where we need to have at least three good players for every position or something is wrong. I'll own that.

 

[Thelonious]

Always think it is folly to judge how good this team will be in March/April.. as much as I like and agree with what the Pats have done, you never know.. we had high hopes for Joey Galloway and he pooped the bed. BB always describes a good team as hard working, will these guys fit that mold??

The more recent focus on the d backfield is refreshing and reflects the changing coaching philosophy of BB..

The team you see right now it probably not the team you will see in early September.. add JMcCourty and 1st and 2nd pick.. take away Garapolo and Butler.. Nick Mangold is still out there as are a few others.

Of course you can assess how a team is shaping up in April. If you could not, you would have no basis for making personnel decisions going forward.

The most tedious thing about Boston sports talk, both amateur and pro, is this tendency to pose as a tough-minded cynic in the face of good news/positive assessments, for fear of being labeled a fanboy or a homer. It is a pose which belies its own putative objectivity when it prevents the poseur from acknowledging facts of positive import.

The team looks really good. There I said it.

 

[50-yard-line]

How much better are they?

Bennett to Allen
Long to Ealy
Sheard to Guy
Blount to Burkhead
Ryan to Gilmore

When you look at those five, are they bonuses? Break-evens? A bit of a set-back?

But now the adds:
Cooks
Gronk healthy = we hope.
Lewis with a year under that ACL fix = hopeful!
A very young O-line with another year together.

Here's the thing: they ARE better than they were when they won the SB two months ago, which is amazing, considering the volume of FAs they had to deal with. I do get the feeling that the adds were spotlighted and the personnel losses kind of downplayed, though.

I like Allen, but I think Bennett is a bigger presence...maybe it's personality, maybe size, but I'm not sure this is an upgrade.

Ealy has talent to burn, but does he have Long's desire?

I've read good things about Lawrence Guy and Sheard had a bad year. But Sheard can play.

Burkhead looks like he'll be a good fit, but Blount had a helluva year.

Gilmore is a #1, but Ryan played great through the playoffs and might be the best tackling CB in the league.

Don't get me wrong, I like all these moves, and I think there's more to come. And best of all, Brandin Cooks is an elite receiver...in the separation category, he's near the top of the league. That trade alone makes this offense much stronger.

Keep Butler, add McCourty, and well...

 

[stinkypete]

How much better are they?
When you look at those five, are they bonuses? Break-evens? A bit of a set-back?

It is fair to temper the expectations a bit.

As things stand today, with Butler sill a Patriot, I view this roster as significantly improved. The WR and DB groups are in my mind the best in the NFL, hands down.

If Butler is traded and replaced with McCourty, Revis or both, then I would view the offseason as a slightly better than a break-even. Slight downgrades at DE, RB, TE, CB, but no gaping holes, and a bigtime upgrade at WR.

 

[Ring 6]

People seem to forget, in 2014, the consensus among Patriots players, including Revis, was that Butler was the best cb on the team

This is not true.

 

[Ring 6]

How much better are they?

Bennett to Allen
Long to Ealy
Sheard to Guy
Blount to Burkhead
Ryan to Gilmore

When you look at those five, are they bonuses? Break-evens? A bit of a set-back?

But now the adds:
Cooks
Gronk healthy = we hope.
Lewis with a year under that ACL fix = hopeful!
A very young O-line with another year together.

Here's the thing: they ARE better than they were when they won the SB two months ago, which is amazing, considering the volume of FAs they had to deal with. I do get the feeling that the adds were spotlighted and the personnel losses kind of downplayed, though.

I like Allen, but I think Bennett is a bigger presence...maybe it's personality, maybe size, but I'm not sure this is an upgrade.

Ealy has talent to burn, but does he have Long's desire?

I've read good things about Lawrence Guy and Sheard had a bad year. But Sheard can play.

Burkhead looks like he'll be a good fit, but Blount had a helluva year.

Gilmore is a #1, but Ryan played great through the playoffs and might be the best tackling CB in the league.

Don't get me wrong, I like all these moves, and I think there's more to come. And best of all, Brandin Cooks is an elite receiver...in the separation category, he's near the top of the league. That trade alone makes this offense much stronger.

Keep Butler, add McCourty, and well...

Bennett may be better than Allen but the Bennett we had last year was a hobbled one and allen if he stays healthy will be an upgrade.

I like ealy better than long. Guy is a different player than sheard. He is an addition, not a replacement, we had no one like him last year. We still need another true 43 DE (or just use a 3 man rotation).
Gilmore is a huge upgrade to Ryan. Actually Gilmore upgrades butler as the 1 and butler upgrades Ryan as the 2/3.
RB is yet to be settled. I think Blount is back unless BB finds an upgrade (and I don't think that is burkhead).

 

[patfanken]

Keeping in mind the concept of perspective, one of the thoughts I happened to have during one of many times I've seen clips of the Superbowl comeback, was just how "relatively" UNtalented our offense actually is, when you compare it to it's productivity over the years.

Think about it: WR's - Of the 4 who suited up (Edelman, Hogan, DA, Mitchell) 2 were UDFA's, one was picked in the 7th round and the other in the 4th. I don't think you can take another WR corps in the league and come back with one with LESS of a pedigree, let alone one that help wrack up 466 yds in passing.

OL - Only Solder has a first round pedigree on the entire offense, while the rest of the OL is made up of a 3rd rounder in Tunney, 2 4th rounders in Cannon and Mason, and another UDFA in Andrews.

The RB's - were made up of 3UDFA's in Boldin, LBG, and Lewis, and another 4th rounder White.

The TE's were like Royalty on the team with two 2nd rounders in Gronk and Bennett to go along with still another UDFA in Lengel.

Finally the poster child of the offensive pedigree system is the QB, who's story doesn't need to be repeated.

When you put all this into "perspective", you have to see that what BB stated in his recent CNN interview becomes so clear. The making of a successful football team isn't all about how great your athletes are, but rather how well those athletes work together to move the ball and do their jobs.

When teams try and figure out exactly WHY the Pats win, it is becoming increasingly clear to even the haters that the reason has more to do with how hard these players work. How unselfish they are,, and how smart and how well coached they are. Only the professional haters will even dare to go the cheating route anymore, and even those losers know how sad they and phoney they sound to even the most casual fans of the game.

 

[Tunescribe]

What's going to become of all these "grand plans" when/if Garoppolo is not traded?

 

[jimnance]

This is not true.

Yes it is. I have seen direct quotes from revis and Brady. Of course they're referring to practice. You have a short memory. Go look it up.

 

[jimnance]

Pretty sure it was Arrington who was benched, and that move allowed Browner to handle the much taller WR Chris Matthews, who had been torching us.

As we know, it was Browner's physicality on the goal line which jammed the WR and didn't allow the pick play to occur. That, in turn, gave Malcolm Butler his free release on jumping the route (to some degree), and the rest is history.

You're right,it was primarily arrington as the 3rd cb- Butler replaced BUT Butler also replaced Browner when the Pats had their base D on early downs a number of times iirc. Regardless, Butler made more big-time plays in that game than anyone else in the secondary.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes it is. I have seen direct quotes from revis and Brady. Of course they're referring to practice. You have a short memory. Go look it up.

No it's not true. They did say nice things about butler but they never said he was the best corner in the team in 2014.
You totally made that up.

 

[scout]

No it's not true. They did say nice things about butler but they never said he was the best corner in the team in 2014.
You totally made that up.

Revis on Butler: "That kid's the best DB out here"

 

[supafly]

Good title for a thread, but I'll never get over myself, Ken.

 

[Joker]

Good title for a thread, but I'll never get over myself, Ken.

And I'll never get over the 15 years I've spent reading YOUR egomaniacal late night screeds as I politely and courteously asked you to desist.
Uh....oh wait....