Per Breer: Mac Jones "infuriating" coaches with decision making

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

He was not a Top 5 QB in 2001, 2003 and 4. The Pats actually have a very strong run game and O-line that allowed Brady make the throws he needed to. After 2004, yes, he became and remained a Top 5 QB.

Offensive line was average. Run game was average in 2001 and beyond terrible in 2003. Brady didn’t have top 5 stats. He was in MVP running in 2003 and 2004 and received votes. He was a top 5 QB by league consensus. People wondered what he would be like if he had the same weapons as his other elite peers, and that was answered in 2007. People wondered what he would be like without Belichick, and that was answered in 2020.

 

[RicoG]

He was not a Top 5 QB in 2001, 2003 and 4. The Pats actually have a very strong run game and O-line that allowed Brady make the throws he needed to. After 2004, yes, he became and remained a Top 5 QB.

Statistically your right. But if you go beyond stats, it's hard to argue that Brady was not top 5. The proof is 3 SBs in 4 years.

Brady was asked to be a game manager. That's what he did and he was exemplary at it. The Pats had an elite defense, a strong run game, and played great situational football. Brady just had to keep the game close and not turn the ball over. When he had to make the throws, he made those throws.

The other thing, is in the playoffs the going gets tough against more talented teams. Those teams that don't take it to the next level gets knocked out. To win 3 or 4 games in a row against top teams is tough. Brady among others brought their game to the next level. Even some top QBs can't do that, looking at you Manning.

Often when people look at the top players in a season(ie probowl and all pro), they don't include the playoffs which is just silly. Brady brought his game up in the playoffs and in crunch time in do or die situations. This is an underrated intangible that Brady had(which Manning did not have) that many often overlook. This is why he was a top 5 QB even in his first years.

 

[lancerman]

The consensus was Mac was drafted into a team best suited to set him up for success…funny that it turned out the exact opposite.

Still irks me that Bill used a 4th round pick on a smurf with a weakling little arm from a minor conference that zero other teams would have drafted in any round when Sam Howell was right there for the taking in the 2022 draft. We saw for ourselves last week what a mistake that was.

Mac probably would have already been out the door already and the team’s future at QB would be quite a bit brighter than it is now. And BB might have been able to chalk up another late round QB success story for his legacy.

The funny thing is the Bears still suck with Fields. Lance actually was in the best situation but he was such a flop and Purdy was better. The Jets outside of QB are better than the Patriots across the board and Wilson is still stinking it up. And the Jaguars actually were competent in building around Lawrence.

As of right now the Pats got worse, the other teams got better, and the Bears stayed trash.

 

[captain stone]

The funny thing is the Bears still suck with Fields. Lance actually was in the best situation but he was such a flop and Purdy was better. The Jets outside of QB are better than the Patriots across the board and Wilson is still stinking it up. And the Jaguars actually were competent in building around Lawrence.

As of right now the Pats got worse, the other teams got better, and the Bears stayed trash.

I'll be interested in seeing what da Bears look like after Fields returns next week and dusts off the cobwebs... if he used his down time wisely, they should have enough pieces to make themselves a tough out vs most teams, especially within the division and at home... Sad fact is, as of today they're probably better with Bagent than the Pats are with Corky.

 

[Rob0729]

His lust for Zappe is nonsense.
His early recognition that Mac was garbage was anything but nonsense.
For those keeping score, you both are '1 win/1 loss'.
You just chose a different hill to die on........Mont Mac
Bill chose both Mont Mac and Mont Zappe

In all honesty, who cares about being right or wrong on this stuff? There are people here who seem to be more happy about being right about Mac Jones than the fact that if they were wrong, it would be far better for the Patriots and Patriots fans.

That is what I have hated about this board most since Brady left. People are more concerned about the scoreboard on this site of who is right on the side of the arguments of Brady vs. Belichick or whether it was Patricia or Mac who was the problem last year or whether Mac is any good rather than the scoreboard in Gillette.

No one on this board should be celebrating or taking victory laps for the fact that this team is a disaster, but several posters seem to want to do it every day. That isn't being a Patriots fan.

 

[archstanton543]

In all honesty, who cares about being right or wrong on this stuff? There are people here who seem to be more happy about being right about Mac Jones than the fact that if they were wrong, it would be far better for the Patriots and Patriots fans.

That is what I have hated about this board most since Brady left. People are more concerned about the scoreboard on this site of who is right on the side of the arguments of Brady vs. Belichick or whether it was Patricia or Mac who was the problem last year or whether Mac is any good rather than the scoreboard in Gillette.

No one this board should be celebrating or taking victory laps for the fact that this team is a disaster, but several posters seem to want to do it every day. That isn't being a Patriots fan.

To put it another way: The negativity in this town sucks...and it sinks!

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

In all honesty, who cares about being right or wrong on this stuff? There are people here who seem to be more happy about being right about Mac Jones than the fact that if they were wrong, it would be far better for the Patriots and Patriots fans.

That is what I have hated about this board most since Brady left. People are more concerned about the scoreboard on this site of who is right on the side of the arguments of Brady vs. Belichick or whether it was Patricia or Mac who was the problem last year or whether Mac is any good rather than the scoreboard in Gillette.

No one on this board should be celebrating or taking victory laps for the fact that this team is a disaster, but several posters seem to want to do it every day. That isn't being a Patriots fan.

I’m glad you can admit you were wrong after digging into and doubling down on multiple wrong positions for years. It makes sense that you now hate that people want to hold you accountable for clogging up the board all this time with the same by repeating the same (wrong) talking points thousands of times.

 

[n1997y]

When did this love for Howell start? He's not good. He's not the second coming of anyone. You blame the Pats for not drafting him...neither did 31 other teams for 4 rounds.

He outplayed Mac and the beat up Pats secondary featuring the likes of Myles Bryant. That's it.

I live in the DC area. Howell seems to be the real deal. Given good coaching and development he looks likely to be a serviceable starter.

and I’m surprised at you using his draft position to prove he’s not good. Didn’t you learn anything from the QB picked 199 a few years ago?

 

[archstanton543]

I live in the DC area. Howell seems to be the real deal. Given good coaching and development he looks likely to be a serviceable starter.

and I’m surprised at you using his draft position to prove he’s not good. Didn’t you learn anything from the QB picked 199 a few years ago?

A few? You mean well over 2 decades ago?

 

[Triumph]

In all honesty, who cares about being right or wrong on this stuff? There are people here who seem to be more happy about being right about Mac Jones than the fact that if they were wrong, it would be far better for the Patriots and Patriots fans.

That is what I have hated about this board most since Brady left. People are more concerned about the scoreboard on this site of who is right on the side of the arguments of Brady vs. Belichick or whether it was Patricia or Mac who was the problem last year or whether Mac is any good rather than the scoreboard in Gillette.

No one on this board should be celebrating or taking victory laps for the fact that this team is a disaster, but several posters seem to want to do it every day. That isn't being a Patriots fan.

If you want what is best for the Pats, then you want Corky Jones gone.

 

[n1997y]

Oh, and those asking for Kyler Murray or Justin Fields - if those guys were the answer, do you think their teams would be looking to move on from them?

Fields ability to read a defense is on par with the ability of a 4 year old being able to understand Quantum Theory. Kid is a gimmick QB, and will never be anything else.

Murray's just done.

Don’t make that mistake that discussing the possibility of something is the same as wanting it.

I started the conversation about Murray because I’d seen tweets suggesting it as a possibility and wanted to know opinions on here. My own opinion was skeptical but I was willing to be persuaded otherwise. No one has offered any arguments in favor so I’m remaining skeptical.

your reply does illustrate the problem with drafting QB prospects. So many highly regarded prospects quickly flame out at the NFL level. So what is the best way to find a good QB?

 

[n1997y]

A few? You mean well over 2 decades ago?

Yeah. A guy who was passed over 198 times managed to be good enough to play 23 years in the league, with some success. Proves my point. Thanks.

 

[archstanton543]

Yeah. A guy who was passed over 198 times managed to be good enough to play 23 years in the league, with some success. Proves my point. Thanks.

Yeah, wake me in 23 years when Howell finally retires.

 

[Rob0729]

I’m glad you can admit you were wrong after digging into and doubling down on multiple wrong positions for years. It makes sense that you now hate that people want to hold you accountable for clogging up the board all this time with the same by repeating the same (wrong) talking points thousands of times.

I'd rather admit when I am wrong rather than be an ******* when I am right. You choose to be the latter. It just isn't me. But I guess I don't live a miserable life where I relish to be an internet tough guy. Don't get me wrong. It suits you well. But it just ain't for me.

Congrats on your Super Bowl.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I'd rather admit when I am wrong rather than be an ******* when I am right. You choose to be the latter. It just isn't me. But I guess I don't live a miserable life where I relish to be an internet tough guy. Don't get me wrong. It suits you well. But it just ain't for me.

Congrats on your Super Bowl.

You seem bitter. Tough loss I guess. A lot of posts. All wrong.

 

[Rob0729]

You seem bitter. Tough loss I guess. A lot of posts. All wrong.

Not bitter at all. I enjoy watch you make an ass of yourself. You are the one who gets unhinged by my posts. I don't even read your posts unless you are responding to me.

 

[203Pat]

In all honesty, who cares about being right or wrong on this stuff? There are people here who seem to be more happy about being right about Mac Jones than the fact that if they were wrong, it would be far better for the Patriots and Patriots fans.

That is what I have hated about this board most since Brady left. People are more concerned about the scoreboard on this site of who is right on the side of the arguments of Brady vs. Belichick or whether it was Patricia or Mac who was the problem last year or whether Mac is any good rather than the scoreboard in Gillette.

No one on this board should be celebrating or taking victory laps for the fact that this team is a disaster, but several posters seem to want to do it every day. That isn't being a Patriots fan.

I think people generally get annoyed with the contingent on here who has continually whistled past the graveyard and clutched their pearls at anyone who dare question what Bill is doing of if a player isn't really that good. In my opinion the annoyance comes from the notion that somehow the blind homerism makes you a better fan. It doesn't. It just makes you seem like you're too dumb to think for yourself. I have been *****ing about Bill's drafting for years and I always got the "Hurr hurr 6 rings!" Some people need to see the wheels fall off, roll away, and for the rest of the car to burst into flames before they admit things aren't going well while some people stare into the flames and believe the flaming car was the plan all along and we should all be lucky to witness it.

 

[Wozzy]

Offensive line was average. Run game was average in 2001 and beyond terrible in 2003. Brady didn’t have top 5 stats. He was in MVP running in 2003 and 2004 and received votes. He was a top 5 QB by league consensus. People wondered what he would be like if he had the same weapons as his other elite peers, and that was answered in 2007. People wondered what he would be like without Belichick, and that was answered in 2020.

This is not quite accurate. In 2001 the entire team was pretty average including QB, but they played better as the season went on and improved. While they weren't necessarily great at running the ball, they did it to the tune of 8th most attempts in the league for the regular season and had the second most rushes in the postseason. The passing game was also an extension of the rushing attack, their yards per passing attempt was near last in the league for a reason. Screen passes were all the rage. Tom threw one TD in the entire 2001 postseason.

In 2003 the RB position was dangerously thin as Antowain Smith was on his last legs and the only big bruising RB they had. They rested his legs in the regular season by using Kevin Faulk heavily. This changed in the postseason, Smith led the entire postseason in rushing attempts. And again, the passing game was an extension of the rushing attack, Tom's yards per pass attempt were some of the lowest in the postseason.

In 2004 Corey Dillon's 1635 yards rushing was the third most in the NFL, he also ran for 12 TD's. They were one of the best rushing teams in the league.

Also nobody at this time was opining about what would happen if Tom had better weapons. The short passing game was their scheme, it was by design. Also Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Patten, Kevin Faulk... they weren't exactly devoid of talent. In 2001 Charlie Weis had to hold Tom by the hand and prevent him from turning the ball over, either by interception or fumble... of which he had many.

Tom worked hard, he improved... this notion that he entered the league like gangbusters and led the NFL in passing and TD's is revisionist history. These were his development years, and he had the good fortune to be on a well coached team with a stout defense. He really started to come into his own as a passer in 2005 and beyond... like most rookies do.

Mac is the same player he was as a rookie, and if you're not getting better in this league then you're regressing.

 

[Wozzy]

I think people generally get annoyed with the contingent on here who has continually whistled past the graveyard and clutched their pearls at anyone who dare question what Bill is doing of if a player isn't really that good. In my opinion the annoyance comes from the notion that somehow the blind homerism makes you a better fan. It doesn't. It just makes you seem like you're too dumb to think for yourself. I have been *****ing about Bill's drafting for years and I always got the "Hurr hurr 6 rings!" Some people need to see the wheels fall off, roll away, and for the rest of the car to burst into flames before they admit things aren't going well while some people stare into the flames and believe the flaming car was the plan all along and we should all be lucky to witness it.

BB drafted Mac, and Mac sucks. Add a great QB to this roster and they're pretty darn good. No team can win with bad QB play.

If by some chance Kraft was to fire BB this weekend and wanted an entirely new regime to take over, as an armchair GM I'd love to take this team over.

They have a lot of young talent, they have a high first round draft pick to find their QB, they have the most cap space in the league, they have a rabid fanbase and good ownership. What's not to like?

Find a QB, they'll become instant contenders.

 

[PatsFan2]

BB drafted Mac, and Mac sucks. Add a great QB to this roster and they're pretty darn good. No team can win with bad QB play.

If by some chance Kraft was to fire BB this weekend and wanted an entirely new regime to take over, as an armchair GM I'd love to take this team over.

They have a lot of young talent, they have a high first round draft pick to find their QB, they have the most cap space in the league, they have a rabid fanbase and good ownership. What's not to like?

Find a QB, they'll become instant contenders.

Yep that's why I'm in the Tank at all cost club. We need a poor man's Burrow or Allen I would be happy with either scenario.