Pats release McKenzie

[Calciumee]

Any word on him finding a new home yet?

Anyone giving him any shot at making one of the final practice squad slots?

I would have thought the Pats want him on PS! But i suppose he has waivers to clear yet

 

[Pats726]

i would have thought the pats want him on ps! But i suppose he has waivers to clear yet

duhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

 

[Rob0729]

As for Mankins, nobody saw that pick coming in '05. At that time, it was the biggest WTF? pick in the BB era. You're either lying if you knew about him or you watch too much college football. From '04-'09, Mankins and Wilfork turned out to be the best picks and there is a huge drop off after that.

I don't even want to bother with the rest, but just because you didn't know about Mankins doesn't mean no one else did. Word was that the 49ers were going to draft him the selection right after the Pats took him. Besides, the Pats have a Fresno State connection and knew exactly what they were going to get. Pat Hill, the head coach, have been friends with Belichick since Hill coached under Belichick in Cleveland in the early 90s. You can argue the only reason why they drafted him was because of Hill and not the Pats' scouts, but no way was Mankins a "luck" pick.

BTW, Mankins and Wilfork are All Pros. There would be a significant drop off for any team. I agree that some of the Pats' drafts were bad. I think you are being ridiculous to draft good drafts like the 2005 draft which produced 5 starters. And the 2009 draft since the players have only played one year and it may end up producing 5 starters (Chung, Butler, Brace, Vollmer, and either Tate or Edelamn) and and three significant role players (whichever of Tate or Edelman who doesn't start although they both may be our returners, Ingram who is the long snapper, and Pryor). If you expect superstars every draft, you don't understand drafting.

When you clearly don't know all the facts, you really shouldn't spout BS.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I don't even want to bother with the rest, but just because you didn't know about Mankins doesn't mean no one else did. Word was that the 49ers were going to draft him the selection right after the Pats took him. Besides, the Pats have a Fresno State connection and knew exactly what they were going to get. Pat Hill, the head coach, have been friends with Belichick since Hill coached under Belichick in Cleveland in the early 90s. You can argue the only reason why they drafted him was because of Hill and not the Pats' scouts, but no way was Mankins a "luck" pick.

When you clearly don't know all the facts, you really shouldn't spout BS.

I think you are both right. The Pats knew Mankins well (and SF might have been about to draft him - I don't know), but Mankins was not "on the board" and surprised all of the TV draft guys and almost all fans (because most fans watch and follow what the TV draft guys say). McCourty was the same way, he was going to be picked in the next 5 or 10 guys, but I think very few people thought the Pats were going to pick a CB in the 1st round. The McCourty pick looks very good right now.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

I don't understand the need to include them as draft picks, except as a way to defend questionable drafts. Is anyone running around trying to include Derrick Burgess and Duane Starks in any of these draft classes? You're also not factoring in age and contractual control and cost. Also being overlooked is the fact that these players had already been drafted, Moss by the Vikings in 1998 (or in Welker's case signed as an undrafted free agent) therefore they can't be drafted again by the Patriots. Call them acquisitions, trades or whatever but calling them draft picks or saying that the Pats drafted them is factually wrong.

You cant judge a draft that includes trading picks for players without considering those players.

Enough with this dead horse. The argument keeps being about semantics and nothing more. Some people complain about a draft, by which they mean the ability of the Patriots to evaluate collegiate players, and some people mean what you get for a draft pick. Agree on what your talking about and spare the back-and-forth.

The collegiate talent-evaluation question is an interesting one on a number of counts. Do the Pats scouts not do their job as well as some other organizations? Probably; the Steelers seem to do a standout job in this department. There are some other franchises whose draft record is arguably better, too.

Consider, however, whether the Patriots don't set themselves a more difficult task in integrating players into a more complex system. If your system is vanilla, you need only evalute player's physical attributes and desire. However, with a complicated scheme that varies week-to-week based on matchups and requires in-play adjustments from most players, the job of projecting how a player in another system, especially in far-simpler collegiate systems where the game is slowed down, is much more difficult. Can a player learn multiple schemes? Can he react at NFL speeds to complex in-play reads? Can he do this, while maintaining leverage and still have the capability to close out plays? Not all systems are leaps and bounds simpler than the Pats is, but most are somewhat simpler. It is not suprising, therefore, that the Pats might evaluate players differently, aside from the question of how effective their scouting program is. There task is also clearly quite difficult.

 

[condon84]

Not really surprised by this move. He never stood out in South Florida against mediocre Big East talent and showed as much in preseason games.

 

[FCB02062]

Krafty wanted the cheaper alternative - Fletcher = UDFA, McKenzie = third round pick, which'll cost him more dough, and these days, Krafty's all about the Benjamins and not signing the best players - labor uncertainty, ya know...

Has anyone ever pointed out on the Pats Fans board how CHEAP Krafty is with the Revolution, his other sports venture? Krafty is well known to MLS fans as one of the cheapest owners out there. It's a dirty little secret as to how little Krafty spends on his soccer team in relation to the other teams in
MLS. For 4 or 5 years, Steve Nicol, their coach, was the lowest paid in the league...Krafty has failed to sign a designated player, one of only three or four teams not to have opened up the wallet to sign a big $ player. Also, Krafty received 2/3 of the 4M transfer fee for Clint Dempse (their best player) - what did they do with that $ ? Brought in young, cheap players...sound f#cking familiar Pats fans????

 

[patsinthesnow]

Krafty wanted the cheaper alternative - Fletcher = UDFA, McKenzie = third round pick, which'll cost him more dough, and these days, Krafty's all about the Benjamins and not signing the best players - labor uncertainty, ya know...

Has anyone ever pointed out on the Pats Fans board how CHEAP Krafty is with the Revolution, his other sports venture? Krafty is well known to MLS fans as one of the cheapest owners out there. It's a dirty little secret as to how little Krafty spends on his soccer team in relation to the other teams in
MLS. For 4 or 5 years, Steve Nicol, their coach, was the lowest paid in the league...Krafty has failed to sign a designated player, one of only three or four teams not to have opened up the wallet to sign a big $ player. Also, Krafty received 2/3 of the 4M transfer fee for Clint Dempse (their best player) - what did they do with that $ ? Brought in young, cheap players...sound f#cking familiar Pats fans????

Anyone got a flamethrower?

 

[Brarrell]

Not really surprised by this move. He never stood out in South Florida against mediocre Big East talent and showed as much in preseason games.

Speaking for myself the issue really comes down to their drafting methodology of stock piling picks " The Jimmy Johnson method" I believie in targeting players and doing what it takes to get THAT player. IMO I think too many times money is the big factor not paying a first rounder vs a second rounder it's just the way I feel about what their doing in Foxboro. I watched Curran and Breer last night on Comcast and I agree with those guys what the hell is going on in Foxboro they are throwing away 3rd round picks as if they were UFA's Crable, McKenzie, a 3rd and a fifth for Burgess. For two years they new they needed a pass rusher or two to help the young dbs so what do we do in FA nothing and drafting well we'll see.

 

[Off The Grid]

*Instead we trade Seymore for a 2011 1st instead of a 2010 1st which would have been a top ten pick where you can get a top defensive player, but no we take the 2011 because there will probably be a new CBA and a rookie salary cap are you freakin kidding me.

*You didn't want to sign Samuel why because he didn't intercept a pass in the Superbowl! So you spend all this money and effort to replace him they should have signed the guy he is a PLAYMAKER.

*They hide behind the cap and *Felger* has continuously shown that its a bunch of baloney.

*The Jets, Redskins and numerous other teams have shown its a bunch of crap.

Yeah! Felger is a GREAT source!! :rocker:

 

[Christopher Patriot]

It has absolutely nothing to do about money nothing!
The fact is T Mac was in a numbers game and he was at best the 4th or 5th inside linebacker based on what he shown in preseason and practices.
He may very well take the Crable train and come back on the psqd then work his way to the 53 in time.
If Kraft is cheap Brady will walk, Wilfork wouldn't of been signed.
We would of traded out of the first round this year all together.
No I think the reality is Kraft trusts BB to make all the personal decisions.
If Kraft was a tightwad as much as you'd like to believe BB wouldn't coach a team where he is handicapped by that kind of ownership, we'll see him walk within a season or 2 then we'd hear all about it until that occurs shut up.
There is a difference with being cap aware as opposed to cheap.
Even if you pay all you can to play this year when the cap comes back you'd have to gut the team completely.
That's not worth the risk at all, your building a team to compete for 5 years not one that will be heralded 1 then built from the ground up the next 4.
Do you even know what Mckenzie's salary was believe me he wasn't even making a million so your claims are unfounded.

 

[Off The Grid]

Well I am no longer going to judge
a linebacker by the size of their neck.

Icy, I am BEGGING you: tell me WHERE you got your Sig Video from??

I just watched that 15 TIMES.

 

[Ring 6]

Krafty wanted the cheaper alternative - Fletcher = UDFA, McKenzie = third round pick, which'll cost him more dough, and these days, Krafty's all about the Benjamins and not signing the best players - labor uncertainty, ya know...

Has anyone ever pointed out on the Pats Fans board how CHEAP Krafty is with the Revolution, his other sports venture? Krafty is well known to MLS fans as one of the cheapest owners out there. It's a dirty little secret as to how little Krafty spends on his soccer team in relation to the other teams in
MLS. For 4 or 5 years, Steve Nicol, their coach, was the lowest paid in the league...Krafty has failed to sign a designated player, one of only three or four teams not to have opened up the wallet to sign a big $ player. Also, Krafty received 2/3 of the 4M transfer fee for Clint Dempse (their best player) - what did they do with that $ ? Brought in young, cheap players...sound f#cking familiar Pats fans????

Why are you here. Perhaps there is a Revolution message board you can post on?

 

[Brarrell]

It has absolutely nothing to do about money nothing!
The fact is T Mac was in a numbers game and he was at best the 4th or 5th inside linebacker based on what he shown in preseason and practices.
He may very well take the Crable train and come back on the psqd then work his way to the 53 in time.
If Kraft is cheap Brady will walk, Wilfork wouldn't of been signed.
We would of traded out of the first round this year all together.
No I think the reality is Kraft trusts BB to make all the personal decisions.
If Kraft was a tightwad as much as you'd like to believe BB wouldn't coach a team where he is handicapped by that kind of ownership, we'll see him walk within a season or 2 then we'd hear all about it until that occurs shut up.
There is a difference with being cap aware as opposed to cheap.
Even if you pay all you can to play this year when the cap comes back you'd have to gut the team completely.
That's not worth the risk at all, your building a team to compete for 5 years not one that will be heralded 1 then built from the ground up the next 4.
Do you even know what Mckenzie's salary was believe me he wasn't even making a million so your claims are unfounded.

I didn't call them cheap but the facts are this and you can go back & google USA today & NFL salary cap you will see plainly in the last two years I believe the Pats were 23rd in 2009 total payroll and 30th in 2008 if we are 3rd wealthiest team in the NFL why are we spending like we are the Jacksonville Jags? We are damn lucky to have one of the top 5 qbs in the league because if we didn't we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[Pats726]

I didn't call them cheap but the facts are this and you can go back & google USA today & NFL salary cap you will see plainly in the last two years I believe the Pats were 23rd in 2009 total payroll and 30th in 2008 if we are 3rd wealthiest team in the NFL why are we spending like we are the Jacksonville Jags? We are damn lucky to have one of the top 5 qbs in the league because if we didn't we wouldn't be having this conversation.

The LEAGUE goes by salary cap....Is that what we are talking about??? OR like the smarmy Felger is PAYROLL now what you are whining about??? GIVE me a BREAK!!!

 

[fair catch fryar]

Krafty wanted the cheaper alternative - Fletcher = UDFA, McKenzie = third round pick, which'll cost him more dough, and these days, Krafty's all about the Benjamins and not signing the best players - labor uncertainty, ya know...

Has anyone ever pointed out on the Pats Fans board how CHEAP Krafty is with the Revolution, his other sports venture? Krafty is well known to MLS fans as one of the cheapest owners out there. It's a dirty little secret as to how little Krafty spends on his soccer team in relation to the other teams in
MLS. For 4 or 5 years, Steve Nicol, their coach, was the lowest paid in the league...Krafty has failed to sign a designated player, one of only three or four teams not to have opened up the wallet to sign a big $ player. Also, Krafty received 2/3 of the 4M transfer fee for Clint Dempse (their best player) - what did they do with that $ ? Brought in young, cheap players...sound f#cking familiar Pats fans????

From reading the bulk of your 17 posts on this messageboard you really have a personal gripe with the Krafts. I bet you were his waiter and he gave a lousy tip because you spit all over his food trying to talk to him about the Revolution. Give it a rest. Criticizing BB about how the team is shaping up and football in general is one thing, but to come on here and whine about how Kraft spends his $$$ and runs a very successful business is just dumb. Get a life.

 

[Rob0729]

I think you are both right. The Pats knew Mankins well (and SF might have been about to draft him - I don't know), but Mankins was not "on the board" and surprised all of the TV draft guys and almost all fans (because most fans watch and follow what the TV draft guys say). McCourty was the same way, he was going to be picked in the next 5 or 10 guys, but I think very few people thought the Pats were going to pick a CB in the 1st round. The McCourty pick looks very good right now.

People thought Ty Warren was a reach and just a desperate reaction to a run on DTs. People blasted the Seymour pick because he was far less talented than David Terrell. People laughed when the Pats took Branch in the second round. On the flip side, people said that Chad Jackson was a steal in the second round.

Who cares what the TV draft guys say? Most of them are idiots and are wrong more than they are right. Mel Kiper said that Andre Ware would be such a revolutionary QB that he would change how the position would be played and proclaimed "I'll see you at the Hall of Fame Induction" when the Lions drafted Mike Williams.

Funny, during the Super Bowl years when the Pats would draft players like Branch, Asante Samuel, Matt Light, etc. that the draftnicks labeled as reaches, people praised Belichick and Pioli for doing their own homework and not subscribing to those scouting services (all of which have been discredited as being star biased). Now it is just because they are lucky?

Sorry, the Pats never drafted players based on how the media and the scouting services rated them. They have never relied on scouting services and that is why they have always drafted "surprises" because they do not rate players the same way most of the league and all of the media people do.

 

[Brarrell]

The LEAGUE goes by salary cap....Is that what we are talking about??? OR like the smarmy Felger is PAYROLL now what you are whining about??? GIVE me a BREAK!!!

Whining I just don't drink the koolaid anymore thats all. I want the Pats to be a contendor and I see it slipping away because of FO management and a lack of commitment to put the best team on the field by the owner.

 

[upstater1]

Not really surprised by this move. He never stood out in South Florida against mediocre Big East talent and showed as much in preseason games.

Overall the BE might be mediocre but here are a couple facts that might be relevant to a MLB.

One, the BE had fantastic running games and backs when he was there, among the nation's best. He had to stop Ray Rice, Steve Slaton, Donald Brown, Pat White, Michael Bush, etc.

Two, the year he came out, the BE sent more players into the NFL draft than any other league.

 

[Uncle Rico]

How many Super Bowl rings do you have?

Um, none. But that's a given for all of us here, right?

You're overreacting to what I said ("If BB is trying to keep people guessing his roster strategy, I think it's working"), which is basically that a lot of these moves were surprises to a lot of people here.

My comment wasn't remotely second-guessing, or criticism. It was -- where is this going? (It was also in the moment of rapid news, not in hindsight ... which follows below). Did you have Burgess, Woods, Alexander, Aiken and McKenzie all being cut? Did you see the trades coming? Crable coming back (to PS)?

Now that things are settled, somewhat: I notice a lot of pessimism on the board over the weekend activities. I don't see that; I don't know what happened to change the team so dramatically in some people's eyes since Friday. I'm not seeing cause for concern because some players we thought were going to contribute in a minor sort of way were cut in favor of players who coaches thought were better. That's good right? Even the McGowan injury -- he created some excitement early last year but his playing time was cut a lot later; must have been for a reason. Page looks like a good find. The cumulative effect of losing Warren, Bodden and Mankins is a concern, but I'm psyched about the direction of the team, just as I was before the weekend.